Z Kai Re-Edited Project

[Dagon]

I've had this idea for a long time. A little history:
Back in 2009, I got sick of all the filler in DBZ. I kind of became a manga elitist for a while, so I decided to cut all the filler out of the episodes and render them as movie-length features. It was kind of cool, but it had problems. It only had the english dub track, and it was in 240p because I used very compressed episodes downloaded from sharing sites, but I enjoyed them. I got all the way to the end of the Freeza saga. I actually got the fight with SSJ Goku vs Freeza all on one disc in just barely over 2.5 hours. I was about to keep going but then I heard that DBZ Kai was happening and it was doing everything I was doing. It was kind of a bummer but I was happy that the show was getting re-dubbed.

Fast forward to now, and I have the itch again. I've bought the DBZ season Blu rays and the Kai blu rays and I have an idea for an even more momentous task. Tell me if I'm crazy lol.

I'm thinking of cutting footage from the DBZ season set blu rays to match the audio from the Kai blu rays, and maybe even cut it together as multiple features ranging between 1.5 to over 2 hours, depending on how it align for each set. I thought about even cutting them to match the manga volumes. I tried that in 2009 and the 1st volume of the saiyan saga came out to be about 1.5 hours, so with the small amount of filler Kai left in, that would be perhaps about 2 hours.

The reason I was wanting to use the DBZ season blu rays for the video is that while the Kai remaster was good, it was mostly an HD scan of the dragon box film, which Toei did not color correct, whereas the season blu rays are color corrected. There's the green sky from the Goku vs Vegeta fight in the saiyan saga, and the Buu arc Kai set has this weird subtle green tint across the entire arc. Furthermore, Toei filtered all the film grain out, which made the image look softer overall. The blu ray season sets retain a small amount of film grain, which allows it to keep a nice crisp image.

I would edit the audio for both the English and Japanese tracks with subtitles, and maybe even have a second English track that features some music from the Bruce Faulconer soundtrack.

I know I'm probably crazy for even thinking about this, but I just have this nagging desire to do it. If I do end up finishing this project? What could I do with it? Legally I wouldn't be able to share it online, but maybe I could have screenings at conventions or send them as gifts to the voice actors at funimation. That would probably be the extent of what I could legally do. So what are your thoughts on this?

UPDATE: I've decided to go through with it. I've seen that other people have their own projects in a similar fashion as mine, but my goals are different enough that I believe my project can offer something of value on its own. Here is the first preview, I completed the opening using the footage from the blu ray of the Bardock TV special.

Also, I have decided to work on two versions simultaneously. One will have the video from Dragon Ball Kai, the other would have a shot-for-shot recreation from the Funimation Z blu ray sets. Everyone wins! Choose the version you like!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQTkMtGwAxE

[PremiumSalt]

I'm thinking of cutting footage from the DBZ season set blu rays to match the audio from the Kai blu rays, and maybe even cut it together as multiple features ranging between 1.5 to over 2 hours, depending on how it align for each set. I thought about even cutting them to match the manga volumes. I tried that in 2009 and the 1st volume of the saiyan saga came out to be about 1.5 hours, so with the small amount of filler Kai left in, that would be perhaps about 2 hours.

The reason I was wanting to use the DBZ season blu rays for the video is that while the Kai remaster was good, it was mostly an HD scan of the dragon box film, which Toei did not color correct, whereas the season blu rays are color corrected. There's the green sky from the Goku vs Vegeta fight in the saiyan saga, and the Buu arc Kai set has this weird subtle green tint across the entire arc. Furthermore, Toei filtered all the film grain out, which made the image look softer overall. The blu ray season sets retain a small amount of film grain, which allows it to keep a nice crisp image.

I honestly can't say I've ever seen anyone think that the Funi DBZ blu rays look better than Kai, but okay. To each their own.

If I do end up finishing this project? What could I do with it? Legally I wouldn't be able to share it online, but maybe I could have screenings at conventions or send them as gifts to the voice actors at funimation. That would probably be the extent of what I could legally do. So what are your thoughts on this?

I mean plenty of people have gotten away with sharing fan edits on the internet, but again to each their own.

[Ajay]

The reason I was wanting to use the DBZ season blu rays for the video is that while the Kai remaster was good, it was mostly an HD scan of the dragon box film, which Toei did not color correct, whereas the season blu rays are color corrected. There's the green sky from the Goku vs Vegeta fight in the saiyan saga, and the Buu arc Kai set has this weird subtle green tint across the entire arc. Furthermore, Toei filtered all the film grain out, which made the image look softer overall. The blu ray season sets retain a small amount of film grain, which allows it to keep a nice crisp image.

This isn't really accurate. Kai comes from Toei's masters, which yes, they are the same ones used for the Dragon Boxes, but they most definitely are colour corrected, and are the most accurate colours we have to date. The sky during the Goku vs Vegeta fight is meant to be a teal colour since the sun's setting. You can see this on the actual original background paintings. Boo Kai is horrible, so I won't argue there, but yeah... Funimation's season sets are absolutely abysmal, so this is a really bizarre thing to want.

[Dagon]

This isn't really accurate. Kai comes from Toei's masters, which yes, they are the same ones used for the Dragon Boxes, but they most definitely are colour corrected, and are the most accurate colours we have to date. The sky during the Goku vs Vegeta fight is meant to be a teal colour since the sun's setting. You can see this on the actual original background paintings. Boo Kai is horrible, so I won't argue there, but yeah... Funimation's season sets are absolutely abysmal, so this is a really bizarre thing to want.

I've seen some old VHS recordings of the goku and vegeta fight, captured from the original fuji tv broadcast, and the sky was blue. Furthermore, when Toei scanned the footage, they ended up softening the entire image. The black lines that make up the characters are blurry and kind of off-black, like a very dark blue or very dark gray.

Allow me to present a comparison. Here are two screenshots from the exact same frame between the season 1 blu ray and the kai episode with Goku vs Vegeta.
[spoiler][/spoiler]
[spoiler][/spoiler]

As you can see, in the Funi season blu rays, black is black. In the kai blu rays, black is either very dark gray or very dark blue, and it appears softer. That's my primary reasoning for using the image from the season blu rays. Also, in small part I want the series to have a consistent look rather than switching between 4:3 and 16:9.

[Ajay]

I've seen some old VHS recordings of the goku and vegeta fight, captured from the original fuji tv broadcast, and the sky was blue. Furthermore, when Toei scanned the footage, they ended up softening the entire image. The black lines that make up the characters are blurry and kind of off-black, like a very dark blue or very dark gray.

Allow me to present a comparison. Here are two screenshots from the exact same frame between the season 1 blu ray and the kai episode with Goku vs Vegeta.
[spoiler][/spoiler]
[spoiler][/spoiler]

As you can see, in the Funi season blu rays, black is black. In the kai blu rays, black is either very dark gray or very dark blue, and it appears softer. That's my primary reasoning for using the image from the season blu rays. Also, in small part I want the series to have a consistent look rather than switching between 4:3 and 16:9.

I, too, have those VHS recordings, and there's a reason NTSC is often said in jest to stand for "Never The Same Colour". They're not wholly accurate representations. Like I said, here's an example of the actual painting:

[spoiler]

Earlier parts of the fight are bluer
[/spoiler]

Black is black in Funimation's sets because they have no regard for correct levelling. They just crush everything until it looks 'modern'. No hand-painted cel is going scan at exactly #000000 without crushing something. Similarly, the line clarity is no fault of Toei's, but again, just another instance of Funimation trying to 'modernise' the show through asinine decisions. They entire set is overshapened, which is exactly why the backgrounds are a disgusting flat mess.

Again, this seems like a really bizarre choice to make, which is totally fine and dandy if that's what you want to do, but it sounds like it's not a decision being made with a complete understanding of the various processes and how film works.

[Dagon]

I, too, have those VHS recordings, and there's a reason NTSC is often said in jest to stand for "Never The Same Colour". They're not wholly accurate representations. Like I said, here's an example of the actual painting:

Black is black in Funimation's sets because they have no regard for correct levelling. They just crush everything until it looks 'modern'. No hand-painted cel is going scan at exactly #000000 without crushing something. Similarly, the line clarity is no fault of Toei's, but again, just another instance of Funimation trying to 'modernise' the show through asinine decisions. They entire set is overshapened, which is exactly why the backgrounds are a disgusting flat mess.

Again, this seems like a really bizarre choice to make, which is totally fine and dandy if that's what you want to do, but it sounds like it's not a decision being made with a complete understanding of the various processes and how film works.

I tried to find a shot from the episodes that matches that painting in your post, and I couldn't find it. Could that just be a test painting? And remember, the original film for that scene is about 28 years old by now, and Toei is kind of known for treating their anime cheaply. The dragon box has unaltered colors, which means the film shows its age. The skin tones are more pink the older footage is for example.

You may not like it but it's the sacrifice I'm making so that my project has consistency across the board. The Z season blu rays are nowhere near as bad as they're made out to be. Give it a chance and take off the nostalgia goggles. Just because Toei sanctioned a Z project doesn't mean they got everything about it correct.

[thejeremymenace]

The Kai master is from Toei's film, while Funi's an unknown (2nd or 3rd?) generational copy. As such Toei's will always have the strongest color & detail. I'm not a fan of Kai's post-production DNR but its color definition is the best of any of the Dragon Ball releases. Regarding what Ajay mentioned about black levels, observation of other high quality HD masters (i.e. G Gundam) will reveal that "cel anime black" is not always "digital pure black;" which you can recognize in the difference between's Domon's pilot suit and the pillarboxing in this screencap.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

[Dagon]

In any case I could always change the color of the sky in those scenes to teal to better match the Kai master, so everyone would be happy. Maybe even slightly de-crush the blacks I guess, if possible.

[KBABZ]

In any case I could always change the color of the sky in those scenes to teal to better match the Kai master, so everyone would be happy. Maybe even slightly de-crush the blacks I guess, if possible.

De-crushing isn't always a good idea. When you crush the blacks you're losing image information that just can't be recovered when bringing it back up; that detailing just doesn't exist in the picture anymore.

[Dagon]

Update: I made the first preview using footage of the bardock special. Also, now there will be TWO versions: One with Dragon Ball Kai as the video track, another with a shot-for-shot recreation from the Funimation Z blu-ray season sets. I discovered that in order to recreate the Kai footage, I need to have both the Kai and original Z tracks in the editing timeline simultaneously, so it would only take a few extra steps to make a version with the Kai footage. This way everyone can pick the version they prefer.