Lazy nerfing of Dragonball in Fanfiction crossovers

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Re: Lazy nerfing of Dragonball in Fanfiction crossovers

Post by Jackalope89 » Sun Apr 29, 2018 12:20 am

ss2Miqote wrote:
Polyphase Avatron wrote:
Jackalope89 wrote:On the flipside, I have also seen people tackle crossovers hyping the Dragon Ball character, while having absolutely no clue about the character(s) that they crossover with.

The worst offenders of any crossover, in my opinion, are those that say they use, say, Goku, and then make the story a harem. With the only part resembling Goku is his ability to transform.
Goku probably would think a harem is a type of food.

Hahahahahaha just like when chi chi trapped him in a marriage. Just this time it's either underaged girls or battle women.
Generally the former, from what I've seen. :problem:

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Re: Lazy nerfing of Dragonball in Fanfiction crossovers

Post by ss2Miqote » Sun Apr 29, 2018 7:05 am

Jackalope89 wrote:
ss2Miqote wrote:
Polyphase Avatron wrote:
Goku probably would think a harem is a type of food.

Hahahahahaha just like when chi chi trapped him in a marriage. Just this time it's either underaged girls or battle women.
Generally the former, from what I've seen. :problem:
I have never seen such avid support for lolicon or whatever it is from people without them knowing it. It's actually funny.
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Re: Lazy nerfing of Dragonball in Fanfiction crossovers

Post by ekrolo2 » Sun Apr 29, 2018 8:03 am

Dragon Ball's insane power for it's character inherently makes it really hard to cross over with a lot of stuff if you're just going to say have standard Gohan get portal'd to RWBY or something.

Now, if you're doing a fusion fic where the universes are mingling together, that gives you good leeway to scale things down if you absolutely need to cross them over.
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Re: Lazy nerfing of Dragonball in Fanfiction crossovers

Post by ss2Miqote » Sun Apr 29, 2018 11:25 am

ekrolo2 wrote:Dragon Ball's insane power for it's character inherently makes it really hard to cross over with a lot of stuff if you're just going to say have standard Gohan get portal'd to RWBY or something.

Now, if you're doing a fusion fic where the universes are mingling together, that gives you good leeway to scale things down if you absolutely need to cross them over.
I agree and I pointed that out. Yet again let me say that I don't hate a nerf instantly but if you are going to do it at least have it make sense to the story.
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Re: Lazy nerfing of Dragonball in Fanfiction crossovers

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Sun Apr 29, 2018 1:38 pm

Honestly, I find that nerfing can work well enough....... if you make up for its blatantness via other strong aspects of the story.

For example, rather than focus on the fights and power, focus on how fighting affects the characters, how it influences how they live their lives and approach situations; Goku having a thoughtful discussion about what his drive to constantly get stronger does for him with a character who's much weaker could be insightful as one such example.

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Re: Lazy nerfing of Dragonball in Fanfiction crossovers

Post by ss2Miqote » Sun Apr 29, 2018 1:44 pm

PerhapsTheOtherOne wrote:Honestly, I find that nerfing can work well enough....... if you make up for its blatantness via other strong aspects of the story.

For example, rather than focus on the fights and power, focus on how fighting affects the characters, how it influences how they live their lives and approach situations; Goku having a thoughtful discussion about what his drive to constantly get stronger does for him with a character who's much weaker could be insightful as one such example.
Yes exactly or just put a well made story that doesn't have a fight every five seconds. It could explore the lives of the other characters in the story without Goku or whoever taking the spotlight every second. Seeing a story like this from another person's perspective other than "OMG GOKU IS GAWDDD LET ME STROKE HIM". Character development goes a lot further than fights, especially on long stories. If you develop multiple characters and see it from multiple differing perspectives, the story becomes that much more "real" so to say.
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Re: Lazy nerfing of Dragonball in Fanfiction crossovers

Post by Jackalope89 » Sun Apr 29, 2018 4:29 pm

ekrolo2 wrote:Dragon Ball's insane power for it's character inherently makes it really hard to cross over with a lot of stuff if you're just going to say have standard Gohan get portal'd to RWBY or something.

Now, if you're doing a fusion fic where the universes are mingling together, that gives you good leeway to scale things down if you absolutely need to cross them over.
That's why some of the better, or at least crossovers with the most potential, are DBZ crossovers with DC/Marvel. Because those two franchises have beings well beyond that of even Zeno.

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Re: Lazy nerfing of Dragonball in Fanfiction crossovers

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Sun Apr 29, 2018 6:49 pm

Jackalope89 wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote:Dragon Ball's insane power for it's character inherently makes it really hard to cross over with a lot of stuff if you're just going to say have standard Gohan get portal'd to RWBY or something.

Now, if you're doing a fusion fic where the universes are mingling together, that gives you good leeway to scale things down if you absolutely need to cross them over.
That's why some of the better, or at least crossovers with the most potential, are DBZ crossovers with DC/Marvel. Because those two franchises have beings well beyond that of even Zeno.
I've generally found that stories about beings that are more powerful than Zeno tend not to focus on fighting much, if at all.
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Re: Lazy nerfing of Dragonball in Fanfiction crossovers

Post by Jackalope89 » Sun Apr 29, 2018 8:44 pm

Polyphase Avatron wrote:
Jackalope89 wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote:Dragon Ball's insane power for it's character inherently makes it really hard to cross over with a lot of stuff if you're just going to say have standard Gohan get portal'd to RWBY or something.

Now, if you're doing a fusion fic where the universes are mingling together, that gives you good leeway to scale things down if you absolutely need to cross them over.
That's why some of the better, or at least crossovers with the most potential, are DBZ crossovers with DC/Marvel. Because those two franchises have beings well beyond that of even Zeno.
I've generally found that stories about beings that are more powerful than Zeno tend not to focus on fighting much, if at all.
I'm saying that DC and Marvel, unlike say, RWBY, aren't suddenly outclassed when Goku goes Blue. That sort of thing.

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Re: Lazy nerfing of Dragonball in Fanfiction crossovers

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Sun Apr 29, 2018 11:01 pm

Jackalope89 wrote:
Polyphase Avatron wrote:
Jackalope89 wrote: That's why some of the better, or at least crossovers with the most potential, are DBZ crossovers with DC/Marvel. Because those two franchises have beings well beyond that of even Zeno.
I've generally found that stories about beings that are more powerful than Zeno tend not to focus on fighting much, if at all.
I'm saying that DC and Marvel, unlike say, RWBY, aren't suddenly outclassed when Goku goes Blue. That sort of thing.
What about characters like The Doctor who can't fight like Goku but can solve problems he never could by using their intelligence? That would be a more interesting crossover if you ask me.
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Re: Lazy nerfing of Dragonball in Fanfiction crossovers

Post by Jackalope89 » Sun Apr 29, 2018 11:12 pm

Polyphase Avatron wrote:
Jackalope89 wrote:
Polyphase Avatron wrote:
I've generally found that stories about beings that are more powerful than Zeno tend not to focus on fighting much, if at all.
I'm saying that DC and Marvel, unlike say, RWBY, aren't suddenly outclassed when Goku goes Blue. That sort of thing.
What about characters like The Doctor who can't fight like Goku but can solve problems he never could by using their intelligence? That would be a more interesting crossover if you ask me.
I saw one, once, where it was a Doctor Who and DBZ crossover, though it had Future Trunks instead of Goku.

Only 2 chapters were ever posted.

There's a number of stories I read simply for the character interactions, and not necessarily the action. There's a Dragon Ball/RWBY crossover, with Goku growing up in Remnant, another with a similar premise of Goku growing up on Earthland (Fairy Tail). There's an ongoing of a DBZ/RWBY one with Future Gohan (a character rarely used) ending up on Remnant. Along with Cell.

Probably the most interesting story I've come across, that only has 4 chapters right now, is where the Namek Saga gang (after Goku regains his body, but hasn't recovered just yet) are wished to Remnant, and get scattered.

Along with Freeza. Its dark, but yet still remains true to both series. Gohan, as a 6 year old, runs into Ruby and some of her friends, Vegeta into Weiss (and does a number on some nameless mooks until he senses Freeza), etc.

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Re: Lazy nerfing of Dragonball in Fanfiction crossovers

Post by ss2Miqote » Mon Apr 30, 2018 9:20 am

Jackalope89 wrote:
Polyphase Avatron wrote:
Jackalope89 wrote: I'm saying that DC and Marvel, unlike say, RWBY, aren't suddenly outclassed when Goku goes Blue. That sort of thing.
What about characters like The Doctor who can't fight like Goku but can solve problems he never could by using their intelligence? That would be a more interesting crossover if you ask me.
I saw one, once, where it was a Doctor Who and DBZ crossover, though it had Future Trunks instead of Goku.

Only 2 chapters were ever posted.

There's a number of stories I read simply for the character interactions, and not necessarily the action. There's a Dragon Ball/RWBY crossover, with Goku growing up in Remnant, another with a similar premise of Goku growing up on Earthland (Fairy Tail). There's an ongoing of a DBZ/RWBY one with Future Gohan (a character rarely used) ending up on Remnant. Along with Cell.

Probably the most interesting story I've come across, that only has 4 chapters right now, is where the Namek Saga gang (after Goku regains his body, but hasn't recovered just yet) are wished to Remnant, and get scattered.

Along with Freeza. Its dark, but yet still remains true to both series. Gohan, as a 6 year old, runs into Ruby and some of her friends, Vegeta into Weiss (and does a number on some nameless mooks until he senses Freeza), etc.

Yeah, a lot of stories involving super powerful beings (Relative to their verse) that are heavily narrative based are amazing. Take Robert Jordan's Wheel of time series (While it is far from perfect it is not a jerk off of the super powerful character. We all want to see super powerful battles but we rarely see them from points of weaker or normal characters caught in the destruction. Rarely do we see the consequences of the destruction in relation to the story. That would be a "great" way to nerf a character. Make it so the character's power has a negative impact on how things work out. Whether that be through existing characters in the verse or another character brought in from another verse to keep the character in check. Of course you can make an OC to counteract it but don't be surprised when people call you out for your OC existing only as a complete neutralizer to the power of the MC as that's lazy. In my opinion if you make a countermeasure don't make it a gary stu or mary sue, People will generally accept a OC if it is not just some self insert OP character.

Stories are great if they have believable tension, that much is self evident. As a reader of a story you like you are willing to suspend disbelief to a greater extent if it is a good one. There is no tension to a story where the strong character can get one shot if anything bad happens. An Idea I have been thinking about that would take effort and a good amount of lore/series knowledge is have a good hearted powerful character (CA) go to a universe through a summon from a higher being because that being needed a hero or some help to stop someone from "Destroying the universe" and the good hearted "Hero" will be returned to their universe afterwards and time won't be affected so it will be like it never happened. Naturally the good hearted character's disposition is to help people and higher being knows that so it played on the hero complex of the character and didn't give them much time to think about it. The hero agrees and is sent to the verse. Unbeknownst to the hero, The "enemy" is in the exact same situation and thinks that this "Hero" is the enemy.

You see this is a good idea for a story to me. Why? Well one you can have two incredibly powerful characters without nerfing them in any way. Two: There is a plot that leaves unanswered questions that each character asks themselves abut why they are there. three: There is motive we don't know about. What was the intention of the higher being to bring them over? What happens when the two "Heroes" meet and find out it was a set up? How will they return "Home"? How will they defeat the higher being if that is what it takes? How will they find the being? What are the consequences of their actions? Will the higher being play an active or passive role in the plot progression?
The list goes on and on but I am sure you get the premise. It is a way to have incredibly powerful beings without nerfing them at all. If the story is believable and well written it would be interesting.
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Re: Lazy nerfing of Dragonball in Fanfiction crossovers

Post by Jackalope89 » Mon Apr 30, 2018 1:03 pm

Oh, I'm quite familiar with Wheel of Time. One of my favorite book series out there.

As to reasons why characters from other universes crossover, well, there are quite a few. But the most generic, and boring, thing I've seen is something like the Gohan vs Cell beam struggle where it opens a warp hole or something, or "so and so has outlived their friends and family, and decided to go somewhere else".

However, something more believable, if you know their characters, would be say, the 5th Dimensional Imps of DC choosing to mess with their favorite hero. Which they do all the time (if you're unfamiliar with their abilities, well, our reality is their playground, and they can do just about anything they want in it, including about completely destroying it, only to undo it all with a snap of the fingers).

DC, for their multiverse, has each universe vibrating at different frequencies, making it rather difficult for most to crossover. Barring speedsters like the Flash and certain meta-humans like Vibe that can open portals to different worlds (along with their own).

And I may or may not be working on a DC/DBZ crossover where one of those very Imps interferes with the timeline. Oddly enough, I don't think I've ever seen anyone use the Imps in such a crossover.

There is one story, but they throw in so many other series, it gets bogged down by the various characters, and most come off as generic. In short, a lot of character interactions suffer for the scale (something like 8 or so series crossover in it).

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Re: Lazy nerfing of Dragonball in Fanfiction crossovers

Post by ss2Miqote » Tue May 01, 2018 12:10 am

Jackalope89 wrote:Oh, I'm quite familiar with Wheel of Time. One of my favorite book series out there.

As to reasons why characters from other universes crossover, well, there are quite a few. But the most generic, and boring, thing I've seen is something like the Gohan vs Cell beam struggle where it opens a warp hole or something, or "so and so has outlived their friends and family, and decided to go somewhere else".

However, something more believable, if you know their characters, would be say, the 5th Dimensional Imps of DC choosing to mess with their favorite hero. Which they do all the time (if you're unfamiliar with their abilities, well, our reality is their playground, and they can do just about anything they want in it, including about completely destroying it, only to undo it all with a snap of the fingers).

DC, for their multiverse, has each universe vibrating at different frequencies, making it rather difficult for most to crossover. Barring speedsters like the Flash and certain meta-humans like Vibe that can open portals to different worlds (along with their own).

And I may or may not be working on a DC/DBZ crossover where one of those very Imps interferes with the timeline. Oddly enough, I don't think I've ever seen anyone use the Imps in such a crossover.

There is one story, but they throw in so many other series, it gets bogged down by the various characters, and most come off as generic. In short, a lot of character interactions suffer for the scale (something like 8 or so series crossover in it).
It is funny you mention the imps as that was one of the higher beings I was thinking about. Personally I would love to see that crossover. You seem to have a decent amount of knowledge about a bunch of stuff from your comments so your stories must be good. If you ever do put it out, hit me up ok?
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Re: Lazy nerfing of Dragonball in Fanfiction crossovers

Post by Jackalope89 » Tue May 01, 2018 12:15 am

Sure thing.

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Re: Lazy nerfing of Dragonball in Fanfiction crossovers

Post by JazzMazz » Tue May 01, 2018 6:17 am

Jackalope89 wrote:Oh, I'm quite familiar with Wheel of Time. One of my favorite book series out there.

As to reasons why characters from other universes crossover, well, there are quite a few. But the most generic, and boring, thing I've seen is something like the Gohan vs Cell beam struggle where it opens a warp hole or something, or "so and so has outlived their friends and family, and decided to go somewhere else".

However, something more believable, if you know their characters, would be say, the 5th Dimensional Imps of DC choosing to mess with their favorite hero. Which they do all the time (if you're unfamiliar with their abilities, well, our reality is their playground, and they can do just about anything they want in it, including about completely destroying it, only to undo it all with a snap of the fingers).

DC, for their multiverse, has each universe vibrating at different frequencies, making it rather difficult for most to crossover. Barring speedsters like the Flash and certain meta-humans like Vibe that can open portals to different worlds (along with their own).

And I may or may not be working on a DC/DBZ crossover where one of those very Imps interferes with the timeline. Oddly enough, I don't think I've ever seen anyone use the Imps in such a crossover.

There is one story, but they throw in so many other series, it gets bogged down by the various characters, and most come off as generic. In short, a lot of character interactions suffer for the scale (something like 8 or so series crossover in it).
What's that last cross-over your referring to?

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Re: Lazy nerfing of Dragonball in Fanfiction crossovers

Post by Jackalope89 » Tue May 01, 2018 11:27 am

JazzMazz wrote:
Jackalope89 wrote:Oh, I'm quite familiar with Wheel of Time. One of my favorite book series out there.

As to reasons why characters from other universes crossover, well, there are quite a few. But the most generic, and boring, thing I've seen is something like the Gohan vs Cell beam struggle where it opens a warp hole or something, or "so and so has outlived their friends and family, and decided to go somewhere else".

However, something more believable, if you know their characters, would be say, the 5th Dimensional Imps of DC choosing to mess with their favorite hero. Which they do all the time (if you're unfamiliar with their abilities, well, our reality is their playground, and they can do just about anything they want in it, including about completely destroying it, only to undo it all with a snap of the fingers).

DC, for their multiverse, has each universe vibrating at different frequencies, making it rather difficult for most to crossover. Barring speedsters like the Flash and certain meta-humans like Vibe that can open portals to different worlds (along with their own).

And I may or may not be working on a DC/DBZ crossover where one of those very Imps interferes with the timeline. Oddly enough, I don't think I've ever seen anyone use the Imps in such a crossover.

There is one story, but they throw in so many other series, it gets bogged down by the various characters, and most come off as generic. In short, a lot of character interactions suffer for the scale (something like 8 or so series crossover in it).
What's that last cross-over your referring to?
Coincidentally, the author of that one just updated it, making it easier to find.

https://www.fanfiction.net/s/11772110/1 ... -of-the-66

Barring Detective Conan, and parts of Sailor Moon, I'm fairly familiar with most of those series, but still.

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Re: Lazy nerfing of Dragonball in Fanfiction crossovers

Post by Commodore Krevin » Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:08 am

ss2Miqote wrote:While some people may find this not such a big deal, It is a problem for me and many people.
Shrug. I would say telling an entertaining, engaging story is by far the most important part to good writing. Fan fiction or otherwise. Power scaling is largely immaterial to that endeavor. Adhering to it will not inherently make your work better and indeed can adversely restrict the kind of stories you can tell. And while you could certainly tell a story it isn't surprising that's the sort of stories fans want to tell. Dragonball is sort of built around fighting.

My advice would be not to take it so personally as you seem to do.
1. If you don't like it, Make your own and stop complaining.

A:Me making my own Fiction does not magically somehow make the nerf go away or people stop calling you out on it. It is just you trying to push away criticism and not take responsibility.
Well, strictly speaking, if you and by extension anyone else who complained went away to make your own fic...yes it would stop people from heckling the story. It would also be the more adult thing to do rather than apparently demanding an author completely change their story to suite you.
3.This is my story and I can do whatever I want in it.

A: Correct. You absolutely can do whatever you want in any of your stories and no one can, should or will stop you for it. (Unless it somehow violates the law and the authorities somehow apprehend you for it) Just know that once you double down when shown reasonable evidence to the contrary of your story, It makes you look disingenuous and like an ass.
Again heckling an author and demanding they make changes to fit your preconcieved notion of power scaling makes you look more like the ass than the alleged author.
4. In retaliation to reviews Author makes Ad hominem attacks and has a superiority complex.
(Some authors like to make personal attacks against other authors based on their reviews of their story. Jim reviews Sally's story about DBZ and Legend of Korra where Korra beats Bog arc Goku who is not holding back because Goku is for no reason wall level. Jim tells Sally that based off of what is known about Bog arc Goku that Goku is Multi Galaxy to Universal depending on what scaling you use. Sally then responds with some personal attack about Jim. This happens a lot more often than you would think)
Well the internet is not a hugbox, right? As I said arguing with people to change their stories is unlikely to productive in the best of cases. Its far better to accept a difference of opinion and move on.

I will say any critique of your stories would be fair game since you are complaining about their story.

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