DragonBall Z Abridged

Any general discussion regarding fan-created works of the Dragon Ball franchise, including AMVs, fan-art, fan-fiction, etc.

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Re: DragonBall Z Abridged

Post by Scsigs » Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:47 pm

Brikikoz wrote:Exactly. So if we want to see more content, perhaps a different medium than youtube is needed, like their own website. Which would take funding for the servers and maintenance, plus obviously advertising and marketing so people know about it. I know their site exists, so the question becomes if Toei would attack THAT site too, and if there's ways around that. Such as relocation to some obscure server overseas.
They have their site & they used to have their episodes & movies on their own server...until Fullscreen operating said server split into 2 factions & everyone who used it for their websites had to migrate their videos to new sites. The new site of choice is Vidme, since their staff is actually really cool with how they both operate their own site & apply copyright law. I already brought Vidme up, since it's become the choice website to reupload content at the moment after YouTube decided to appease advertisers rather than their user base earlier this year with that stupid WSJ article hitpiece shaking things up & making them worse than they already were. I don't think that that's the issue, since Vidme's on the side of the creators when it comes to fair use, it's just making sure the YouTube account doesn't go down. As I've said, they'll continually find new places to host their content when one they have right now isn't the perfect solution.
They're fine otherwise. I'm just thinking it's the wrongful claims on their videos constantly that really wears him down. I'm also betting that if another company like Fullscreen ever crops up in the future, that they'll use it. Until then, it's Vidme.
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Re: DragonBall Z Abridged

Post by sintzu » Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:45 am

Brikikoz wrote:DBZ Abridged cannot end this way. We need to come up with a way to support them without violating the various laws.
A bit late for that now, we've let companies get so strong that at this point, they can do what they want without any boundaries set in place to stop them. When DBZA started Youtube wasn't that big so you could in some ways get things done or changed but there's no way that'll happen now.

The "laws" DBZA violates are the same ones that allow every kind of terrorism to be everywhere on there, Google & Facebook. Goes to show how hypocritical they all are and no one seems to see it.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair Use is a defense, not a right. If Toei and/or Funimation wants them shut down....they will shut them down.
What happens when they decide they don't want people talking about their content and go after reviewers or only want official sites and go after Kanzenshuu ? Parodies have been legal and popular for as long as I can remember so if they can go after that what's stopping them from going after everything else ?
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Re: DragonBall Z Abridged

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:23 am

sintzu wrote:
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair Use is a defense, not a right. If Toei and/or Funimation wants them shut down....they will shut them down.
What happens when they decide they don't want people talking about their content and go after reviewers or only want official sites and go after Kanzenshuu ? Parodies have been legal and popular for as long as I can remember so if they can go after that what's stopping them from going after everything else ?
DBZ Abridged isn't just "a parody." They use actual footage and music from the show. It exists because Funimation lets it.

Ever notice how Mike and co. don't translate the manga or anything and stick just to interviews? How all piracy links get taken down, ASAP? That keeps Kanzenshuu within the parameters of fair use. They also don't provide a method of watching or reading the product, unlike TFS.
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DrakenballP wrote:To test this out myself, I grabbed a Creative Commons episode 94 Preview for Dragon Ball Super
I hate to be so blunt, but what does this even mean...? [Unless I'm missing something huge] There is absolutely no official release of a preview for the Dragon Ball Super television series that Toei has distributed under a Creative Commons license. And even then, there are varying degrees or classifications (and combinations thereof) you can use under Creative Commons (attribution / share-alike / no-derivatives / etc.). Just because something is "Creative Commons" doesn't inherently mean it's free to just repost somewhere EVEN WITH no edits and EVEN WITH complete attribution. Creative Commons is just ONE TYPE OF BANNER under which content owners can express and declare their ownership, intent, and wishes.

So let's start with: where did you get it from, and why do you think it has been distributed under this type of license?

OK, moving on to the concept of fair use itself.

There has been one recent case (that I'm aware of?) with a conclusion to the contrary, but in general and leading up to that point, the following statement has been accurate: fair use is not a right; it is a defense.

This doesn't mean you have any kind of right to use anything you want for whatever reason you want. It also doesn't mean that you have the right to use things for reasons you believe actually live up to the spirit of the fair use defense. It means that, IF AND WHEN CHALLENGED IN COURT, "fair use" can be your defense. You can argue that the case should be dropped because it lines up with a certain set of SUGGESTED GUIDELINES (read: NOT cold, hard "facts" and and laws) where all parties could agree that maybe it was retroactively OK to use that stuff in that way that one time.

These SUGGESTED GUIDELINES include things like the amount of the work in question that has been used, the nature of the transformative work (education, parody), etc.

Quite frankly, I have a hard time imagining TeamFourStar's Abridged episodes would ever be held up as truly parodic in nature. It's a transformative work, and it's based in humor... but the extent of the work being used is already a massive pitfall to overcome, nevermind everything else going against it. And that's just THE FOOTAGE; think about all the incidental music, sound effects, and even lines of dialog pulled from various places verbatim that themselves don't contribute to it being a "parody".
DrakenballP wrote:Team Fourstar has full permission to use audio, and video from both the Japanese, and Western version of Dragon Ball.
There is NO WAY that TeamFourStar has the express permission of Toei to use what they use and do what they do. Recent shenanigans should validate this beyond the shadow of a doubt. TeamFourStar folks being buddy-buddy with certain FUNimation staff members and some of them becoming legitimate voice actors and getting cast in other shows in no way has any relevance to the legal legitimacy of what they produce on the side.

There also seems to be a total misunderstanding of YouTube's Content ID system and how that relates to actual copyright strikes/accusations. Large rights-holders are invited to join YouTube's Content ID program, which gives them the opportunity to upload their own works which allow "fingerprints" to be detected when SOMEONE ELSE uploads that company's/organization's/rights-holder's work without prior approval/permission. If the content owner is a part of this program, they can do all sorts of things, up through and including issuing DMCA notices, monetizing that work, blocking that work, etc. This stuff can be appealed by the allegedly-infringing party, but it should be known that nothing is actually LEGALLY BINDING at this point... up until you actually appeal the claim, in which case you are saying you are willing to go to court over it.

At this point, cycle back above to "fair use is not a right; it is a defense".

(Just because something GETS THROUGH THE SYSTEM and is allowed to remain doesn't somehow infer inherent legality, either. Like these mentions of complete movies with new narration and commentary. That could be that the rights-holder isn't enrolled with YouTube's Content ID system, they haven't gotten around to claiming it yet, they realize the benefits of allowing illegal content to remain due to the Streisand Effect when you go after your own fans, and so on and so forth.)

Man, there's so much more to get into... and I'd sorta be happy to answer and elaborate I guess...? But holy cow.
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Re: DragonBall Z Abridged

Post by sintzu » Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:43 am

Kamiccolo9 wrote:DBZ Abridged isn't just "a parody." They use actual footage and music from the show. It exists because Funimation lets it.
These are all logical points so It's obviously in their right but those rights could end up extending to other things in the future if they're allowed to go after everything the way they seem to be doing (like Nintendo and let's play videos). Let's play have been around for the past 10 years or more but now they seem to be under attack which is legally in the company's right but is that something we want to go on ? I doubt it.
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Re: DragonBall Z Abridged

Post by Noah » Fri Nov 17, 2017 7:11 pm

I don't think Abridged will end in the Cell arc, if YouTube is the problem then post just on their website. As we know they have big plans to this series: finish to abridge all Z episodes, movies and do something with OG DB after.
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Re: DragonBall Z Abridged

Post by Scsigs » Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:07 pm

Noah wrote:I don't think Abridged will end in the Cell arc, if YouTube is the problem then post just on their website. As we know they have big plans to this series: finish to abridge all Z episodes, movies and do something with OG DB after.
Exactly. Again, they have their Vidme account & their staff's a LOT more helpful than YouTube's. They don't even really NEED YouTube at this point, but it's still the most popular video sharing platform on the web, so it helps to put their videos on it. Though, if the stress IS getting to them, I'd recommend some time off for those stressed the most, particularly Kaiser, since I think he's mostly just be writing & playing King Kai, Yajirobe, Korin, & whatever other tertiary characters they need voices for. Though if he voices kid Trunks, which I don't think he should since, when he tries to go high-pitched with that voice, it's painful to listen to, if the History of Trunks Special, while otherwise great, is anything to go by.
If they need a brief hiatus, they should take one. They've earned it by now & I don't think waiting another at least 5 years for the next arc to get over with is the best option for it.
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Re: DragonBall Z Abridged

Post by KaiserNeko » Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:55 pm

I would *never* play Kid Trunks.

... Though it was up for debate for a hot second early on.
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Re: DragonBall Z Abridged

Post by Scsigs » Sat Nov 18, 2017 2:40 am

KaiserNeko wrote:I would *never* play Kid Trunks.

... Though it was up for debate for a hot second early on.
Had a feeling it was. No offense, but your voice, unless you do some South Park-type voice modifying, I don't think is suited for kid characters. I don't even like that the Japanese VA for kid Trunks is the same one for Future Trunks. Time shift voice actors are probably the best thing in those situations. Masako does fine with playing Gohan, but his voice is already higher pitched than most of your team, plus Lani did play young Vegeta in the first Bardock special for a hot second, but then again Vegeta's canonically, what? Around 10 years or so older than Goku? Plus, the Brian Drummond impression was really good as a not to the Ocean cast. Then again, you guys have Justin Briner as older Gohan for when you get to that part of the story, is Masako gonna voice Goten, or is that still being decided too?
In any case, I had a feeling you guys discussed it at some point, hence why I brought it up.
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Re: DragonBall Z Abridged

Post by Dbzfan94 » Sun Nov 19, 2017 1:09 pm

Scsigs wrote:

unless actually told by Toei to stop, since FUNimation's not gonna do it, since they're in the legal right & like them, with a cease & desist, which I don't think they're gonna do, since it'd cause an enormous backlash from TFS fans.
If you think Toei cares about what kids on the internet think about a parody then you're delusional. Also, relax dude. You would think TFS paid your college tuition and bought you a house with how much you defend them.

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Re: DragonBall Z Abridged

Post by Scsigs » Sun Nov 19, 2017 1:55 pm

Dbzfan94 wrote:
Scsigs wrote:...unless actually told by Toei to stop, since FUNimation's not gonna do it, since they're in the legal right & like them, with a cease & desist, which I don't think they're gonna do, since it'd cause an enormous backlash from TFS fans.
If you think Toei cares about what kids on the internet think about a parody then you're delusional. Also, relax dude. You would think TFS paid your college tuition and bought you a house with how much you defend them.
I just respect them a lot, since they produce the internet series that helped me get back into the franchise after years of not having watched it. Kai also helped. I also like some of their other content from their gaming channel, so forgiving me for having a bit of a bias towards them.
In any case, I'm sure Toei WOULD care if it affects sales of the show, or anything. I'm not saying it would get to genocidal levels, but there'd be a bit of backlash thrown their way. Also, I'm betting it's a LOT more than kids. I'm sure they have a lot of adult fans. Give this fanbase SOME credit, dude.
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Re: DragonBall Z Abridged

Post by MR.Mark » Sun Nov 19, 2017 2:18 pm

A parody helped you get back into the series? That rubs me the wrong way, but that's just my opinion, whatever inspires you I guess.

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Re: DragonBall Z Abridged

Post by Dbzfan94 » Sun Nov 19, 2017 2:28 pm

MR.Mark wrote:A parody helped you get back into the series? That rubs me the wrong way, but that's just my opinion, whatever inspires you I guess.
I'm with you there.

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Re: DragonBall Z Abridged

Post by KaiserNeko » Sun Nov 19, 2017 3:51 pm

I'm really confused.

Why is it a problem if a parody helps someone get back into something they enjoy? Seriously, what exactly is the problem there?

Do you know how many people who love Star Trek enjoyed Galaxy Quest and are enjoying Orville? What if someone got back into Star Trek because of those?

What does it matter, what gets something into a show or game or whatever?
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Re: DragonBall Z Abridged

Post by FoolsGil » Sun Nov 19, 2017 4:21 pm

KaiserNeko wrote:I'm really confused.

Why is it a problem if a parody helps someone get back into something they enjoy? Seriously, what exactly is the problem there?

Do you know how many people who love Star Trek enjoyed Galaxy Quest and are enjoying Orville? What if someone got back into Star Trek because of those?

What does it matter, what gets something into a show or game or whatever?
It's not a problem. Self entitled elite hipsters are going to be self entitled elite hipsters. Speaking of Orville, I think I'll start watching Star Trek because of it, so I'm in that tiny minority who never watched the original but will because of the parody, just like the small group of TFS fans out there who've never watched original Z but will because of the abridged series.

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Re: DragonBall Z Abridged

Post by Mewzard » Sun Nov 19, 2017 4:54 pm

KaiserNeko wrote:I'm really confused.

Why is it a problem if a parody helps someone get back into something they enjoy? Seriously, what exactly is the problem there?

Do you know how many people who love Star Trek enjoyed Galaxy Quest and are enjoying Orville? What if someone got back into Star Trek because of those?

What does it matter, what gets something into a show or game or whatever?
Nothing is wrong with that, fanworks can inspire you to get back into old things or to try new things.

Lewis Lovhaug's History of Power Rangers got me back into Power Rangers and got me to start Podcasting about it, which got me to check out Super Sentai (which joined said Podcast), which got me to check out Kamen Rider and GARO. I've always appreciated that (and Lewis is a good guy to talk to about the franchise, so that's also great).

Meanwhile, after watching the first Percy Jackson movie and being meh on it, The Dom's Lost in Adaptation review of the first Percy Jackson book and film got me to start reading the books, which I ended up really enjoying.

You'd be surprised how much fan passion can either reignite or help start one's own passions.

I almost entirely fell out with the dub side of this fandom until Kai came along. Honestly, DBZ Abridged probably helped keep my hope alive for a better dub during the last few years before we finally got it. I'm always going to appreciate this series and the amazing people who brought it to us, and stand with them through thick and thin.
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Re: DragonBall Z Abridged

Post by Scsigs » Sun Nov 19, 2017 5:09 pm

MR.Mark wrote:A parody helped you get back into the series? That rubs me the wrong way, but that's just my opinion, whatever inspires you I guess.
I mean, I'm with Kaiser here, what's exactly wrong with DBZA helping me get back into the official stuff? I was 16 when I first discovered these guys, after also getting into Yugioh Abridged, & it was the perfect time for me to get back into the franchise, considering it was the year before the resurgence of Dragon Ball, since Battle of Gods came out a year later. I'd always been a fan of the franchise, since I caught episodes of DB, Z & GT back in the day on CN, & most of the movies. I mostly got into the franchise due to the games as well, like, I played the SHIT outta Budokai 2 back in the day (mostly because 3 didn't come out for the GameCube for some reason) & I'd also gotten into other anime back then like Naruto & Inuyasha & the like. I just never got a focus on my love of anime as a genre until years later. I watched DBZA, thhen I sought out the DVD releases, so I got Kai's releases & then I got the season sets of DB, GT, & the steelbooks for the Z movies. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to get the first 4 dragon boxes before they went out of print, but that's the result of being late to the party on those.
So, yeah, I owe a lot to these guys & their series for helping me rediscover the series & become the fan I am today, & there's absolutely NOTHING wrong with that. I hope for the best for them. I bet there's a lot of people with similar stories out there, just not on here. Doesn't hurt that I legitimately still enjoy the series & its writing after going back to the official stuff, unlike some other people I've talked to on here. So, bite me if you don't like or get it.
FoolsGil wrote:It's not a problem. Self entitled elite hipsters are going to be self entitled elite hipsters. Speaking of Orville, I think I'll start watching Star Trek because of it, so I'm in that tiny minority who never watched the original but will because of the parody, just like the small group of TFS fans out there who've never watched original Z but will because of the abridged series.
I don''t know if you're lobbing me in there with that, but I'm certainly NOT a hipster. As I explained, I'd already been a fan of the DB franchise for a while, I just never got serious about it until years later. So, yeah. Also, I'm pretty sure the hipster mantra is "like something BEFORE it became cool," or " like something because it's niche," like preferring records to CDs or MP3s, but that's just my thoughts.

If you're looking for suggestions of where to start out, that depends on your tastes. Personally, I'd recommend starting out either with TNG (from season 3 on), or DS9 first. TNG has the same episodic setup as TOS, but with a better take on it that's helped it age a LOT better than TOS outside of the good episodes of TOS. DS9 has really good character development & overarching storytelling that, I think, helps it appeal to the more invested crowd. Then TOS & its movies, as that's where it started, thought season 3's a step down in quality, TMP is boring, & TFF is nonsensical. Voyager's entertaining, but there's more bad than good, & Enterprise is just there. Discovery, I haven't seen yet because I don't want a subscription to a streaming service I won't ever use. I can talk more about this in other places, since this is a Dragon Ball forum thread if you want more words on this.
Mewzard wrote:Nothing is wrong with that, fanworks can inspire you to get back into old things or to try new things.

Lewis Lovhaug's History of Power Rangers got me back into Power Rangers and got me to start Podcasting about it, which got me to check out Super Sentai (which joined said Podcast), which got me to check out Kamen Rider and GARO. I've always appreciated that (and Lewis is a good guy to talk to about the franchise, so that's also great).

Meanwhile, after watching the first Percy Jackson movie and being meh on it, The Dom's Lost in Adaptation review of the first Percy Jackson book and film got me to start reading the books, which I ended up really enjoying.

You'd be surprised how much fan passion can either reignite or help start one's own passions.

I almost entirely fell out with the dub side of this fandom until Kai came along. Honestly, DBZ Abridged probably helped keep my hope alive for a better dub during the last few years before we finally got it. I'm always going to appreciate this series and the amazing people who brought it to us, and stand with them through thick and thin.
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Re: DragonBall Z Abridged

Post by FoolsGil » Sun Nov 19, 2017 7:43 pm

Scsigs wrote: I don''t know if you're lobbing me in there with that, but I'm certainly NOT a hipster. As I explained, I'd already been a fan of the DB franchise for a while, I just never got serious about it until years later. So, yeah. Also, I'm pretty sure the hipster mantra is "like something BEFORE it became cool," or " like something because it's niche," like preferring records to CDs or MP3s, but that's just my thoughts.
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Re: DragonBall Z Abridged

Post by MR.Mark » Sun Nov 19, 2017 7:57 pm

Sorry if it makes me sound elitist, we're all passionate fans in our own ways and I guess this is my passionate response.

I just don't think DBZA should be enjoyed to a point where it even comes close to being seen as a version of the series. I obviously can't stop some people liking it that much though, carry on.

*to the hipster mobile*

Also note that I said the idea rubs me the wrong way, no need to say bite me, you pretentious prick. (see what I did there?)

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Re: DragonBall Z Abridged

Post by FoolsGil » Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:18 pm

MR.Mark wrote:Sorry if it makes me sound elitist, we're all passionate fans in our own ways and I guess this is my passionate response.

I just don't think DBZA should be enjoyed to a point where it even comes close to being seen as a version of the series. I obviously can't stop some people liking it that much though, carry on.

*to the hipster mobile*

Also note that I said the idea rubs me the wrong way, no need to say bite me, you pretentious prick. (see what I did there?)
Yeah. I did see what you did there. Now go back to your hipster mobile. Bye. :wave:

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Re: DragonBall Z Abridged

Post by Dbzfan94 » Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:45 pm

FoolsGil wrote:
It's not a problem. Self entitled elite hipsters are going to be self entitled elite hipsters. Speaking of Orville, I think I'll start watching Star Trek because of it, so I'm in that tiny minority who never watched the original but will because of the parody, just like the small group of TFS fans out there who've never watched original Z but will because of the abridged series.
I don't think you're using the word hipster right in this case. Either way I've seen more TFS fans that refuse to watch Z and stick to Abridged compared to those who watched the actual series because of Abridged, but I see your point.

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