'Ultimate' DBZ Information Site

Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.

Moderators: Kanzenshuu Staff, General Help

User avatar
Herms
Kanzenshuu Co-Owner & Administrator
Posts: 10527
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 6:40 pm
Location: Jupiter
Contact:

Postby Herms » Sat Oct 24, 2009 11:57 am

VegettoEX wrote:Greg, I think where at least folks like myself, Julian, Hujio, Herms, etc. are coming from with linking to / discussing your site are really just that: pointing out where specific things came from. There's little doubt that half the shit some of us put online a decade ago is even remotely accurate anymore, but it's a great way to look back and see how things have evolved. I think some of our favorite examples have been getting "USSJ" from Curtis and "(year) AD" from you.

Which is why starting a thread saying "don't trust my old site", while a noble gesture, is basically irrelevant. The Ultimate DBZ Info Site still exerts a huge influence on the fandom, but not because anyone links to it anymore and says "this site says it, so it must be true", but rather because the information on that site has spread so far out into the English-speaking DB community for so long that it's become accepted wisdom that "everbody knows". So you see people who have never heard of Greg or his site use a slightly modified version of his timeline, copied from some site that copied it from some site that copied it from some site that copied it from Greg's site, with "A.D" and all the other mistakes still intact (but with dub names pasted in somewhere along the way, natch). That's just how the internet works, and telling people to not trust a site won't help much when most people have long forgotten which bits of info originally came from that site to begin with . But like you said, I find tracing this kind of stuff fascinating, in part because the spread of specific mistakes can be traced much more easily than the spread of accurate information.
Kanzenshuu: Is that place still around?
Sometimes, I tweet things
We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason.

omae no kaasan
OMG ULTIMATE DBZ INF0RZ D00D
Posts: 508
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2004 10:41 pm
Location: Fukui Pref. Japan...for reals

Postby omae no kaasan » Sat Oct 24, 2009 12:59 pm

Perhaps the same could be said of all religions....


But enough talk, have at you!

EX etc.,

Oh I totally don't mean you guys. I just saw some posters saying things to the tune of, "Well Greg's site said...", and that...that's enough to make me cringe because unless it's from one of the Toriyama interviews or Daiz extras, it's a toss-up between fact and fiction and it's a pain being associated with doing what I despise most today, literally destroying a logical canon conversation.

User avatar
Kunzait_83
I Live Here
Posts: 2086
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2004 5:19 pm

Postby Kunzait_83 » Sat Oct 24, 2009 3:21 pm

b
Last edited by Kunzait_83 on Tue May 03, 2011 12:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
http://80s90sdragonballart.tumblr.com/

Kunzait's Wuxia Thread

Zephyr wrote:And that's to say nothing of how pretty much impossible it is to capture what made the original run of the series so great. I'm in the generation of fans that started with Toonami, so I totally empathize with the feeling of having "missed the party", experiencing disappointment, and wanting to experience it myself. But I can't, that's how life is. Time is a bitch. The party is over. Kageyama, Kikuchi, and Maeda are off the sauce now; Yanami almost OD'd; Yamamoto got arrested; Toriyama's not going to light trash cans on fire and hang from the chandelier anymore. We can't get the band back together, and even if we could, everyone's either old, in poor health, or calmed way the fuck down. Best we're going to get, and are getting, is a party that's almost entirely devoid of the magic that made the original one so awesome that we even want more.


Kamiccolo9 wrote:It grinds my gears that people get "outraged" over any of this stuff. It's a fucking cartoon. If you are that determined to be angry about something, get off the internet and make a stand for something that actually matters.

omae no kaasan
OMG ULTIMATE DBZ INF0RZ D00D
Posts: 508
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2004 10:41 pm
Location: Fukui Pref. Japan...for reals

Postby omae no kaasan » Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:33 pm

“Fuck you and your pathetic attack!”


You know, in all the many points I'm more than willing to concede, cursing is still one of the one's I would uphold and these days it has little with what I want the characters to say, and more from my perspective as a translator.

"What-what-whaaaaaat!?"

No...I don't think Vegeta called someone a 'candyass', but on the other hand...Japanese is a boring as hell language.

When you consider just the number of verbalizations we have to express thank you, everything from, " 'preciate it.", to, "Words can't express...", Japanese had a boring set of set phrases. That's not to say more phrases actually exist, but they are rarely employed and 90% of the 'variety' or nuance you'll get in any conversation comes from not only the respectful level of syntax, but also the tone.

This is difficult to present in a comic. I don't know if DB did that and my tanks are back in the States, but I do know Oda makes a point of it in OP by, at times, practically using his text as art (sometimes literally). For DB, these points came across in the animation.

So when the DB characters are insulting one another, the variety of it comes from the delivery and not so much the words themselves.

Yeah okay, you could translate 'yarou' as 'bastard' for the 9,657,899th time...or you could get creative with it.

Furthermore, there is the myth that cursing in Japan doesn't exist.

Bull.

Fucking.

Shit.

There are words you can't say on television at certain broadcast times.

For instance, 'unko' is bleeped on many, if not all variety programming. And I've certainly never heard anyone call another person 'kusottare' even jokingly ONCE in the almost decade of watching broadcasts.

"But Greg, they said it in the animation and the animation was originally smack in the middle of that time."

Yes it was. And in a funny almost reverse Judeo-Christian-influence like ours, on society, Japanese have come to acknowledge some of these words as unacceptable or at least 'innappropriate' in hindsight as opposed to originally being banned.

Now, maybe they're commonly used in Kai, I don't know, I really haven't seen much, and maybe they are, the point is, they are recognized as taboo in certain scenarios.

That's not to say some kid will get the back of his father's hand if he calls someone a 'yarou'. It's just not like that here.

Yesterday there were various attempts by elementary school students to penetrate my asshole through my pants via the deadly 'kancho' WHILE THEIR PARENTS STOOD THERE LAUGHING.

So how do you approach that? Does that then make words any less 'wrong' from our view just because kids over here can use some of them? I mean, some students at our recent sports festival were pissed off at the faculty for disqualifying them and, in front of the whole faculty, called a party 'yarou' but the teachers didn't correct them and realized they were letting off steam.

We do not have similar scenarios. That simply wouldn't be tolerated back home. But you cannot ignore what those words mean AND that certain variations and tones, are labeled unacceptable.

Would I suggest 'fuck' holds a place in DB? I have no idea and I'm certainly not going to go back and read everything and compare and contrast and interview parents about whether they'd want their children repeating phrases in certain scenarios or not. I would not suggest that any insults from beyond the time of its creation in Japan should be applied. That is to say, any 'modern' insults. It should be kept within the boundaries of its age to keep those nuances intact.

User avatar
Kunzait_83
I Live Here
Posts: 2086
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2004 5:19 pm

Postby Kunzait_83 » Sun Oct 25, 2009 12:51 am

b
Last edited by Kunzait_83 on Tue May 03, 2011 12:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
http://80s90sdragonballart.tumblr.com/

Kunzait's Wuxia Thread

Zephyr wrote:And that's to say nothing of how pretty much impossible it is to capture what made the original run of the series so great. I'm in the generation of fans that started with Toonami, so I totally empathize with the feeling of having "missed the party", experiencing disappointment, and wanting to experience it myself. But I can't, that's how life is. Time is a bitch. The party is over. Kageyama, Kikuchi, and Maeda are off the sauce now; Yanami almost OD'd; Yamamoto got arrested; Toriyama's not going to light trash cans on fire and hang from the chandelier anymore. We can't get the band back together, and even if we could, everyone's either old, in poor health, or calmed way the fuck down. Best we're going to get, and are getting, is a party that's almost entirely devoid of the magic that made the original one so awesome that we even want more.


Kamiccolo9 wrote:It grinds my gears that people get "outraged" over any of this stuff. It's a fucking cartoon. If you are that determined to be angry about something, get off the internet and make a stand for something that actually matters.

User avatar
penguintruth
Banned
Posts: 4861
Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 5:49 pm

Postby penguintruth » Sun Oct 25, 2009 1:00 am

The only Japanese "swear" I can think of is "manko" (a vulgar term for a woman's privates), and I learned that from Ebichu.
Kentai wrote:Son Gokuu is a fascinating character anyway, because he is - at face value, anyway - an idiot savant. The victim of violent head trauma as an infant [...] he's a simple bumpkin with a fair share of brain damage who's natural talents to work out what's wrong compensate for his broad lack of common sense. But he's also a fighter, through and through [...] he fight[s] until he has, in no uncertain terms, beaten his enemy on terms they can both acknowledge. He doesn't want to kill anyone, or even prove that he can win... he just wants to know he can. He's an ineffably charming bastard who's manly leanings were really incendental, and yes, the fact that he was voiced by a squeaky woman made the combination perhaps all the more charming.


Dragon Ball (Z) Kai Reviews!

Can I get a Schemen?

User avatar
Super Sonic
I Live Here
Posts: 4886
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2004 4:45 pm

Postby Super Sonic » Sun Oct 25, 2009 1:10 am

Have to say Mr. Werner, did look at your site back in the day. True back then, used to skip a lot to avoid spoilers but used to go by it all the time.


Return to “General Franchise Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: CashmanX, Lord Beerus, Professor Freeza, TrunksTrevelyan0064 and 8 guests