Computer animated DB film?

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Re: Computer animated DB film?

Post by Super Ghost Kamikaze » Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:45 pm

yunzabit wrote:
SaiyaMel wrote: with elements independent from those of the original manga/anime series , with its own twist on things..
Why would making a Dragonball film without using the story of Dragonball seem like a good idea to you or anyone else for that matter?
And no I don't care if you have ideas on how to remake Dragonball better.
I don't know. Ask Toei.

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Re: Computer animated DB film?

Post by Captain-Sora » Mon Mar 22, 2010 4:59 pm

Gaffer Tape wrote:I disagree with the Dragon Quest example. That was just a PS2 doing its best to emulate a hand-drawn style. If your only goal is to get as close as you can to the hand-drawn art style, why don't you just... hand draw it?
That's just silly, that's like asking "Why can't Pixar just hand draw their films? They clearly drew the character designs prior to making the models, why not just make it 2D?". This discussion is about producing a CGI film, not a traditional animated film. It's not like the purpose of taking that direction would be redundant as the models wouldn't look flat nor should they have to be cel-shaded and hand-drawn looking in order to emulate Toriyama's art style(Blue Dragon proved that), Dragon Quest VIII was just an example used.

Take the recent CGI Astro Boy film for example as the original comic's art style used to be quite similar to Akira Toriyama's(its author was one of his influences if I'm not mistaken), specifically the faces more so than any other parts. Despite the 3D Astro looking a little different, he still looked similar to his original design overall and the transition from 2D to 3D was done rather nicely. Surely Dragon Ball can receive a similar treatment as long as it was in more capable hands.

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Re: Computer animated DB film?

Post by johnboy1 » Mon Mar 22, 2010 7:24 pm

Gaffer Tape wrote:I disagree with the Dragon Quest example. That was just a PS2 doing its best to emulate a hand-drawn style. If your only goal is to get as close as you can to the hand-drawn art style, why don't you just... hand draw it?
Because computer models have the advantage of being more-or-less permanent objects, so they will always be in the correct scale to each other. Their movements will also be much more fluid, since each motion will be continuous on its own instead of limited to 24 frames per second. The aforementioned lack of scale problems also allow for much more dynamic shots to be accomplished without the inherent issues that "moving the camera" causes in 2D animation. The biggest downside is that creating character models and environments three-dimensionally is incredibly expensive, even in the most capable hands, but this is tempered somewhat by the fact that each model only needs to be created once in the course of production, instead of once in every frame he appears in like in 2D animation.

I'm a CGI lover, so I'm sort of biased in my opinion, but I'd love to see a feature-length CGI DB program.
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Re: Computer animated DB film?

Post by Gaffer Tape » Mon Mar 22, 2010 7:54 pm

Captain-Sora wrote:
Gaffer Tape wrote:I disagree with the Dragon Quest example. That was just a PS2 doing its best to emulate a hand-drawn style. If your only goal is to get as close as you can to the hand-drawn art style, why don't you just... hand draw it?
That's just silly, that's like asking "Why can't Pixar just hand draw their films? They clearly drew the character designs prior to making the models, why not just make it 2D?".
Not at all. You seem to be missing the point of the Dragon Quest example. They were purposely trying to make a 3D game look like a hand drawn art style as best as they could approximate, similar to how video games use hundreds of polygons put together to resemble the shape of a ball. So I just find it silly that, rather than actually use a ball (the hand drawn animation), you'd prefer to use something that is a close approximation to a ball (CG emulating hand-drawn animation). Just seems a bit of circuitous logic, that's all. I'm not saying it's an inherently bad idea to make a CG DB movie, but if you're not going to make it look like CG and instead make it look... as close to itself as it can... why not make it look as close to itself as it can... by drawing it by hand?
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Re: Computer animated DB film?

Post by Captain-Sora » Mon Mar 22, 2010 8:44 pm

Gaffer Tape wrote: Not at all. You seem to be missing the point of the Dragon Quest example.
No, I understood your point clearly, I already insinuated I knew what you meant and your whole "why both making it 3D when it looks exactly like it's hand drawn" thing, hence I went on to say:
Captain-Sora wrote: It's not like the purpose of taking that direction would be redundant as the models wouldn't look flat nor should they have to be cel-shaded and hand-drawn looking in order to emulate Toriyama's art style(Blue Dragon proved that), Dragon Quest VIII was just an example used.
The whole analogy between the topic discussed and Pixar was more about how the goal was to go through the effort of making a 3D film despite being able to choose to do a 2D film.

The point of the Dragon Quest example was how it's quite possible to adapt the art style properly, the cel-shading barely has anything to do with the fact that those models were designed more alike to Toriyama's work than the DBZ game who were also cel-shaded but barely looked like AT's art at all. The film itself doesn't need to be done the exact same way with fancy cel-shading and such to get that "cartoon" feel, that's why I also brought up Blue Dragon as an alternate example where there was a lack of cel-shading used on the models yet were still easily recognizable as characters designed by Toriyama.

Making it look as close to 2D art as possible has nothing to do with screwing up and making the faces look stupid and nothing like AT's art. My first post was to encourage Velasa that Toriyama's art can look fine in 3D depending on who's actually producing the work.

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Re: Computer animated DB film?

Post by SparkyPantsMcGee » Mon Mar 22, 2010 9:03 pm

No thanks. For one, I don't want any more adaptations or Director's interpretation of the story. I want Akira Toriyama's version of the story on the big scree. Give the movie to Zack Snider(Watchmen and 300) and we can talk. He always seems to give his adaptations justice. Also, having a 3D animated movie defeats the whole purpose of having a live action movie. Why not just make a big budget 2D movie for films? A 3D animated movie seems pointless and unexciting. No offense.
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Re: Computer animated DB film?

Post by Gaffer Tape » Mon Mar 22, 2010 9:06 pm

RE: Captain-Sora

I believe we're on different pages here. I mostly understood what you were going for when you posted the pic. And I believe I have a better understanding now of what you mean. As a general statement of, "A 3D conversion of 2D material doesn't have to look like ass," I totally agree with you and think that Dragon Quest is a great example of how to do that--for a video game. Maybe you weren't saying to use that exact approach for a film, and if I misinterpreted that, I apologize. Otherwise, it just seems like a case of doing it in 3D because we can and for no other reason. I checked out Blue Dragon, and, I agree, that's a good example of doing it right. However, making a 3D computer generated DB film is still not an idea that holds much appeal to me in the first place. That's not trying to rain on anybody's parade, it's just my opinion. But hopefully we're both back on the same page, and I'm sorry again if I misinterpreted you.
Why not just make a big budget 2D movie for films?
Oh, and this. This is what I'd rather see.
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Re: Computer animated DB film?

Post by Captain-Sora » Mon Mar 22, 2010 9:18 pm

Gaffer Tape wrote:RE: Captain-Sora

I believe we're on different pages here. I mostly understood what you were going for when you posted the pic. And I believe I have a better understanding now of what you mean. As a general statement of, "A 3D conversion of 2D material doesn't have to look like ass," I totally agree with you and think that Dragon Quest is a great example of how to do that--for a video game. Maybe you weren't saying to use that exact approach for a film, and if I misinterpreted that, I apologize. Otherwise, it just seems like a case of doing it in 3D because we can and for no other reason. I checked out Blue Dragon, and, I agree, that's a good example of doing it right. However, making a 3D computer generated DB film is still not an idea that holds much appeal to me in the first place. That's not trying to rain on anybody's parade, it's just my opinion. But hopefully we're both back on the same page, and I'm sorry again if I misinterpreted you.
That's okay. I myself didn't really even express my opinion on the whole idea yet. I was merely bringing up that it's possible to make decent looking 3D models without them looking slightly off like in the BT/Sparking! series' FMV introductions nor should they strictly need to be cel-shaded to actually be good.

I would also rather see a new animated film with an actual budget than a CGI film, I wouldn't mind the latter though considering I'm rather curious how it would turn out.

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Re: Computer animated DB film?

Post by SaiyaMel » Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:07 am

Not sure about what the majority would think of this... I wouldn't mind seeing non-adaptive remakes of some of the DBZ movies and the TV specials in CGI. 8) Might even happen after Kai is complete..
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Re: Computer animated DB film?

Post by jda95 » Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:18 am

I think CGI doesn't look good unless the characters are designed directly for that world. It's just, whether it's either animation or real people, CGI can't really capture how they.... react? I dunno.

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Re: Computer animated DB film?

Post by Velasa » Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:23 am

SparkyPantsMcGee wrote: Why not just make a big budget 2D movie for films?
Now this is what I long for. I mean it'll never happen because they'll make just as much money whether it's well or cheaply made because of the name, but it would be wonderful.

While I appreciate the sources and ideas people tossed in, it's pretty true that I just don't care for 3d CG animation much. The film itself can be fine, but the only time I ever watched all the way through one and didn't think "this would look better in 2d" was the highly illustratively styled Tale of Despereaux. Those models certainly look better than pervious Toriyama models I've seen, but I just love 2d stuff and wouldn't want Dragonball any other way.
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Re: Computer animated DB film?

Post by MCDaveG » Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:33 pm

I'm satisfied with 3D look in videogames, but movie? Hell no!

To TOEI: Don't dare to stop with hand-drawing you lazy douche-bags! What were those CGI stairs and backgrounds in Saint Seiya for god's sake?!
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Re: Computer animated DB film?

Post by BobZ » Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:17 pm

I wouldn't mind a CGI DB movie, not at all actually. But if someone's one gonna take this up, they should not simply stop there. A 2D movie with new and updated animation will be more than any fan would ever dream of. That was already kind of done with last year's Jump Fiesta, but it was just too short. So, 2D movie, definitely! A 3D would be an added bonus only.

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Re: Computer animated DB film?

Post by Super Sayian Prime » Sun Mar 28, 2010 5:26 pm

Give me DragonBall Reborn instead.

Anyone see images from Toei's Captain Harlock CG film? That looks insanely awesome, if Toei were able to do this for DragonBall, I wouldn't mind a CG film, but that would mean Toei would have to use some effort in regards to DragonBall. We all know they're allergic to that.

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Re: Computer animated DB film?

Post by Piccolo Daimao » Mon Mar 29, 2010 3:37 pm

Super Saiyan Prime wrote:Give me DragonBall Reborn instead.

Anyone see images from Toei's Captain Harlock CG film? That looks insanely awesome, if Toei were able to do this for DragonBall, I wouldn't mind a CG film, but that would mean Toei would have to use some effort in regards to DragonBall. We all know they're allergic to that.
So that's a no for a Dragon Ball CG film from Toei, then.
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Re: Computer animated DB film?

Post by dchan316 » Tue Mar 30, 2010 4:23 am

I think it would be a great idea!...if its in capable hands. I don't mind it going off-story, either. I mean, I can enjoy the movies and specials just fine, and those change quite a bit. Just look at the Path to Power movie.

The recent Astroboy movie was enjoyable, for what it is. A Dragonball movie of a similar quality would be, too. I'd prefer it if it were when Goku is a kid, as those adventures were more about fun. Make sure the scale is there, as that is something important to early Dragonball. Like in Astroboy, there is that robot that is HUUUUGE, making the star look like a bug in comparison. And a big world, too. However, I can't say I'm very fond of the Pixar jungles, so if they were to do that, something closer to the Deep Canvas technique they used for Disney's Tarzan might be better.

But yes, the important decision-makers for the movie HAVE to be Dragonball fans.

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Re: Computer animated DB film?

Post by The Time Traveller » Tue Mar 30, 2010 9:35 am

I think it could work, sure there are lots of crappy CG movies out there, and sure only one company gets it right most of the time, but it could work.

Just don't emulate the manga style that much, keep the animation "American" looking so no n_n faces except for Goku when he's really really happy, and the eyes to be kept round, no zig zaggy style.

And Dreamworks can't go near it, because then we'll get fart jokes, popular music and funky black animal sidekicks. A fart joke is fine, just one, any more is overkill, even if they did do a load of fart and shit jokes early on in the series...

And one funky black animal sidekick, that's ok..... Oolong can be the funky black animal sidekick, but he's only assigned 3 WHO DA MANS and 1 WASSUP.

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Re: Computer animated DB film?

Post by Big Momma » Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:24 am

The Time Traveller wrote: And Dreamworks can't go near it, because then we'll get fart jokes, popular music and funky black animal sidekicks. A fart joke is fine, just one, any more is overkill, even if they did do a load of fart and shit jokes early on in the series...
Well, then it wouldn't be Dragon Ball! :P
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Re: Computer animated DB film?

Post by Ultimate_DB_Fan » Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:52 am

I'm gonna have to respectfully disagree with the folks who didn't like the opening animation styles for the Budokai and Sparking! games. The way the characters looked in Budokai 2 and 3's openings were just fine, AND I could see a movie being made in the vein of all the Sparking games' opening, cg animation style. It'd be something different that I'd be up for.
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Re: Computer animated DB film?

Post by BobZ » Wed Mar 31, 2010 4:11 pm

Most of the animated openings for video games pretty much rocked. As far as CGI goes, only the first Tenkaichi intro stands out - it's actually mind blowing --> Awesome effects, wicked fight choreography... all packed into a minute and a half - win.
I'd love the see a movie like that. But 2D does take priority as I already mentioned. And they could do a lot with it.

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