The Merits of Dragonball GT

[Zephyr]

None of those are cons.

Well I apologize then. I must have left out the part where I said that this was all in my opinion.

The entertainment quality of a series does not depend on its ability to follow off-the-cuff information in a guidebook.

Pan not being able to turn SSJ, when she was clearly more powerful at the age of 4 than Goten or Trunks were (who were both able to trasnform at a very early age), is preposterous. However, the Daizenshuu gave a believable reason. This believable reason was then promptly shat upon by GT's desire to have SSJ descendants of Goku and Vegeta fighting each other. Keeping Pan from reaching SSJ in an attempt to keep GT from being as SSJ-happy as Z was would be understandable, if they didn't do just that in the last episode.

Do we know who's really SSJ2 when and who's not? The anime is never, ever consistent with it, even in Z. And Goku never says he was stronger than Kid Buu. Just "Buu," and probably Mr. Buu at that.

I'm not denying the possibility that the anime fucked up in that department, but I don't recall any instances of a SSJ1 having lightning or a SSJ2 lacking it. Either way, even Good Buu wouldn't be so easily disposed of.

Better question, do these little niggling strength errors really affect your enjoyment of the show? If so, that sucks dude, I'm sorry. The latter half of Z must be terrible on you as well.

Please tell me which strength errors in the latter half of Z are you referring to. Aside from the fact that everything after the Cell Games was less enjoyable, you'd think that by after DBZ's run, Toei would have been able to learn from their and Toriyama's mistakes and be able to keep from creating more plotholes. You know, how you'd expect a sequel to a videogame to have improved on some of its predecessor's problems instead of emulating them.

[Zionist]

My opinion on GT

Pro:
Starts out with a Gag Scene (remember the beginning of DB? Goku and Bulma meet? Quite a comedic scene)

Race against time finding Dragonballs once again

Fusion used once more (Both a Pro and Con)

Dende has a use (Unfortunate Pro)

Nostalgic Ending

Hard to think of Pros for GT onto Cons for now

Cons:
Goku = God
Pan - 'nuff said
Uub - biggest waste of power ever
Terrible excuses for enemies
Piccolo Dies
Krillin Dies from 17
Vegeta getting his ass handed to him at every opportunity (Just not right)
Gogeta - BIGGEST WASTE OF FUSION
Goku leaves once again
Goku doesn't say hi to Pan and makes her believe he's dead at the end
We don't see the Jr.'s use their ancestors techniques at the tournament in the end
Music wasn't that great. (Faulconer ftw)

Even though I actually liked GT to an extent there was a lot that could have been better

[JAPPO]

If I had watched DBGT when I was really young, then I might be able to forgive it for sucking because of nostalgia. But I have no attachment to the show, I judge it on what it is. Fan fiction. Awful, boring, poorly written fan fiction. But hey, if you like it, that's all that matters.

[Midori]

I'm back and I did not expect this many replies! Thank you all for your input on this particular part of the DB universe. I've read all the replies and I have to say I'm looking forward to seeing GT. I'll be going for the Japanese version (not a purist in that, but it's what I grew up with with anime), and in my younger days the whole "Akira Toriyama" thing here would have set me off to it, but I'm looking forward to going in with a healthy dose of skepticism and an open mind. Again thank you all for replying and I can't wait to see how it plays out! Midori

[Li'l Lemmy]

I like GT. Sometimes.

GT, by the way, stands for "Goten Trashed". Little known production secret for ya, there.


~Da Lemmy

[Rocketman]

GT, by the way, stands for "Goten Trashed". Little known production secret for ya, there

Serious question: how so? Other than the general "You're not Goku? WELL FUCK YOU THEN" way GT rolls.

[Li'l Lemmy]

Serious answer: I would be lying if I said that a lot of it didn't stem from personal bias. My feelings toward Goten in general were that he should have been given the chance to play a larger role somewhere along the line-- I don't particularly care if that chance came in GT or even just an extension of Z, just that it happened. His brother Gohan had a reliable arc that examined who he was and what he was about even though his character was wasted in many places throughout Z, but with Goten we never really got the chance to determine his function beyond comic relief. Quite literally, he never got the chance to grow up.

He's the only significant character I can think of ("significant" in this context meaning that, once introduced, Goten is never really absent or otherwise written out of the story a la Chaozu) that was never truly developed beyond cookie-cutter status. He was the second son of Goku, fer cryin' out loud; that alone should warrant something. Hell, even kid Trunks got some special attention in Movie 13; it made an attempt to figure out something about who he was. But we never get that with Goten anywhere in the series or movies. Sure, we got some cute moments and he can Fusion his way to Super Saiyan 3, but what else do we get? Not much when compared to other characters.

It's possible to blame that on the timing, given that Z ended so shortly after Goten's introduction. That series at least treated the character well, for the most part. But that only makes GT that much worse. GT was, perhaps, the last chance for development of some sort, and it was sorely wasted-- we saw nothing and learned even less. What did we get? Goten has a girlfriend. Whoopity-friggin'-doo. What's worse, they took away anything he DID have in terms of characterization or relevance (although that in and of itself is more a symptom of GT Syndrome rather than exclusive to Goten) and left a watered-down version of Z Goten. Why is it that Gohan, who had to be pushed into fighting, turned out to be super-powerful and plot relevant while Goten, who actually liked fighting and had an even more limitless potential than Gohan, was relegated to slackerville and morphed into a useless sideline character? Even Trunks got to go into outer space!

I won't say that GT should have been Goten's show. I will say, however, that he wasn't properly utilized. For the most part, I barely recognize him in GT.


~Da Lemmy

[Cipher]

I won't say that GT should have been Goten's show. I will say, however, that he wasn't properly utilized. For the most part, I barely recognize him in GT.

To be fair, there's really no reason to recognize him at the end of Z either. When you don't see a character at all from age seven to seventeen to mid-twenties, it's fairly reasonable/realistic to expect them to have changed drastically. Fighting always seemed to be more of a game to Goten and Trunks than a lifestyle anyway. And of course they grew up in a time without universal threats knocking on the door every five minutes. The had to, you know, become actual members of society and get jobs and stuff.

And for what it's worth, GT was pretty good to Goten. At least he was getting some fine cartoon ass. The other characters were beat down constantly and without so much as a thank you.

Plus those purple jeans were all about telling Yamcha what was up.

[Li'l Lemmy]

I won't say that GT should have been Goten's show. I will say, however, that he wasn't properly utilized. For the most part, I barely recognize him in GT.

To be fair, there's really no reason to recognize him at the end of Z either. When you don't see a character at all from age seven to seventeen to mid-twenties, it's fairly reasonable/realistic to expect them to have changed drastically.

You have a point there. The unexplored gap between Boo's defeat and Oob's appearance doesn't really do anything to help matters, although I could still at least partially recognize the character as a feasible extension of the original despite some drastic differences.

And for what it's worth, GT was pretty good to Goten. At least he was getting some fine cartoon ass. The other characters were beat down constantly and didn't get so much as a thank you.

Perhaps my opinion of how GT treated Goten would be slightly better if he even so much as looked like a Goten, let alone behaved anything like one. As he is, that guy could be Yamucha. He may as well be, given that all he does is slap ass and lose fights.


~Da Lemmy

[jda95]

You have a point there. The unexplored gap between Boo's defeat and Oob's appearance doesn't really do anything to help matters, although I could still at least partially recognize the character as a feasible extension of the original despite some drastic differences.

We didn't see much of Goten at all in the 28th Tenkaichi Budokai story arc. Well, yes, he was around, but didn't say much. The problem is that the GT depiction of Goten took the idea of Goten dating an exaggerated him into something that didn't resemble his character at all. And of course, the issue of wasted talent, like they did with every character that wasn't Goku. It's not that GT Goten is awful, it's just that... he's not Goten.

[Zephyr]

Perhaps my opinion of how GT treated Goten would be slightly better if he even so much as looked like a Goten, let alone behaved anything like one. As he is, that guy could be Yamucha. He may as well be, given that all he does is slap ass and lose fights.

Sigged for the hilariously sad truth.

[Li'l Lemmy]

You have a point there. The unexplored gap between Boo's defeat and Oob's appearance doesn't really do anything to help matters, although I could still at least partially recognize the character as a feasible extension of the original despite some drastic differences.

We didn't see much of Goten at all in the 28th Tenkaichi Budokai story arc. Well, yes, he was around, but didn't say much. The problem is that the GT depiction of Goten took the idea of Goten dating an exaggerated him into something that didn't resemble his character at all. And of course, the issue of wasted talent, like they did with every character that wasn't Goku. It's not that GT Goten is awful, it's just that... he's not Goten.

Essentially this.

Perhaps my opinion of how GT treated Goten would be slightly better if he even so much as looked like a Goten, let alone behaved anything like one. As he is, that guy could be Yamucha. He may as well be, given that all he does is slap ass and lose fights.

Sigged for the hilariously sad truth.

WHOOP, there it is.
WHOOP.
WHOOP, there it is.
WHOOP.


~Da Lemmy

[Rocketman]

Did kid Goten really have a personality to deviate from? I mean, yeah, he's kinda the middle ground between kid Goku's thick-headed bloodlust and kid Gohan's being a complete wuss, but it's not much of a personality if you can only describe it by what it's not.

[Li'l Lemmy]

I would argue that there is most definitely a personality to Goten, but even I cannot deny how difficult it can be to define exactly what that personality is without drawing comparisons to other, better-developed characters.

The easiest and most common answer is to simply bill him as a Goku clone, which I'm not prepared to do. I can see why some might, but I think that in doing so they overlook some key differences and miss the "point" of Goten in doing so. Placing him somewhere between Goku and Gohan in terms of character is, in fact, a much more accurate means of classification, and an excellent place to start.

Although I do question allowing myself to push into it, given that this thread was to discuss the merits of GT. I kinda went and hijacked it some posts ago. o.o


~Da Lemmy

[Rocketman]

Although I do question allowing myself to push into it, given that this thread was to discuss the merits of GT. I kinda went and hijacked it some posts ago. o.o

Make a new thread for it. NAO!

[EnmaDaiou]

Its hard to talk about merits ignoring demerits.

In my opinion, the merits of GT are just the OP end ED themes.

I really didn't like the story and the incoerences.
Since te first time I saw it.
And it was before I know about the "cannon" or "non-cannon" thing.
I just..
Didn't like it.

[caejones]

Although I do question allowing myself to push into it, given that this thread was to discuss the merits of GT. I kinda went and hijacked it some posts ago. o.o

Make a new thread for it. NAO!

Not that I've looked to see if it's happened or not, but *SECOND'D!*
XD

This did make me realize, though: Toriyama's timeline gaps got bigger as the story went on.
We first have a montage-filled gap of a few months, then a couple three year gaps with some anime filler, then a five year gap between 23 and Z. Filler filled in the year gap that followed pretty thoroughly. . . Then we have a three year gap, then a seven year gap, then a ten year gap (Filler kinda breaks it up a tiny bit)...
I guess that's the "Nothing important happened" sign?

[NeoKING]

I'm back and I did not expect this many replies! Thank you all for your input on this particular part of the DB universe. I've read all the replies and I have to say I'm looking forward to seeing GT. I'll be going for the Japanese version (not a purist in that, but it's what I grew up with with anime), and in my younger days the whole "Akira Toriyama" thing here would have set me off to it, but I'm looking forward to going in with a healthy dose of skepticism and an open mind. Again thank you all for replying and I can't wait to see how it plays out! Midori

I forgot to mention this, but there's another aspect I like about GT, and it concerns Goku. Although he's become a kid again in GT, we get to see a side of him that we've rarely - if never - seen in the other two series. One may argue that this may be Out-Of-Character for Son Goku, but in GT Goku's really cocky - to the extent that he holds back his true power on most of his enemies for nearly the entire first half of the series. This is most likely because he has over 50 years of fighting experience that he's always ready to see everything the opponent can do. Now, I'm not talking about Goku's usual love of fighting; I mean a quasi-Vegetto-like cockiness. You'll see what I mean.

Not only that, but even when he's on the verge of dying, Goku tends to "pack it in;" that is, he knows when he's defeated and is ready to die at anytime during GT. I've seen him do this three times in GT, but the third time was more hinted that than explicitly shown.

It's not all that like the Goku we've come to know, but it's an interesting side of him that we wouldn't really see otherwise. I think they did the Kid Goku GT thing perfectly, instead of just making his personality and character a copy-pasta Kid Goku from Dragon Ball.

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

In my opinion, the merits of GT are just the OP end ED themes.

This. While I didn't think that the OP and ED themes for GT felt "Dragon Ball" to me in the same way as "Head Cha-La" and "Makafushigi Adobenchaa" did and I guess that further alienates GT from the rest of the series, but I digress. They are awesome songs and the animation for them is top notch too.

[Rocketman]

GT doesn't deserve any credit for the theme music because it has nothing to do with GT. It's just some crappy boy band song slapped over animation that happens to be Dragonball.