Dragon Box Sound Quality: My Conclusion

[Robo4900]

Though if I'm right in assuming this leak is (basically) exactly what Sabat has

For the most part, you're right about the source files(Sabat has some material in better quality), but remember; the audio you're hearing here is the raw audio(With lossy compression run over it).

If Funimation put some work into EQing, some light noise reduction, and some professional work on the fansub audio for the missing sections, the result could end up rather incredible(Particularly if they encode it lossless). Whether they'll put as much work in as I'm suggesting is another matter, but at the very least, they should be able to make it sound a little nicer than the leak. Plus, as I say, Sabat does have some material in better quality than what leaked.

As for the quality of the fansubs; some fansubs(Most fansubs of the original series, for example) come from rebroadcasts and such which use the lower-quality optical audio you hear on the Dragon Boxes as their original source, or the tape has gone through too many generations for the audio to come through.
Some fansubs, however, can -- with a lot of work -- be processed to sound really nice. Not as good as the proper broadcast audio, particularly if that broadcast audio has been properly processed, but certainly an improvement over the Dragon Boxes.
I do hope someone out there has a fansub of at least some of the original series that's sourced from an original broadcast; that way, Sabat would have improved audio for all three original series.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

For the most part, you're right about the source files(Sabat has some material in better quality), but remember; the audio you're hearing here is the raw audio(With lossy compression run over it).

The compression isn't severe enough that anyone without superhuman ears could notice at all. However, it could be improved upon. In fact, these recent leaks aren't even the best VHS recordings there are, so there's no denying there's potential for more. However, what we've gotten now is still basically it.

[Robo4900]

The compression isn't severe enough that anyone without superhuman ears could notice at all.

Well, yes. But, it means you can't necessarily edit this audio for your own purposes as-is; the high and low frequencies will be distorted, and if you lossily compress it again, it'll get very bad.

In fact, these recent leaks aren't even the best VHS recordings there are, so there's no denying there's potential for more.However, what we've gotten now is still basically it.

Not quite(Also, small point of order: All the broadcast audio is from betamax; it's just the fansubs that are from VHSes).

A handful of episodes in the leak have some weird distortion in them. Not a huge bother, but Sabat has versions of those episodes without the distortion. Plus, I think there are a few episodes Sabat has a strictly better alternate source of.
Additionally, if some high-quality fansub rips can be sent to Sabat, and Funimation can work some audio magic on it, we could get some very, very nice-sounding stuff to bridge the gaps with.

Anyway, really, when it comes down to it, the big difference between this leak and what Funimation could put out will be in Funimation's remastering techniques. If they do it right, we could get a beautiful-sounding release that's infinitely superior to the leak.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Not quite(Also, small point of order: All the broadcast audio is from betamax; it's just the fansubs that are from VHSes).

I typed that in a hurry. Thanks for the correction

[Danfun64]

Which episodes have the distortion, if I may ask? Also, is the distortion part of where the fansub audio came into play?

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Which episodes have the distortion, if I may ask? Also, is the distortion part of where the fansub audio came into play?

I'm also curious. I'm planning on keeping a log of any quirks and idiosyncrasies throughout the collection, it'd be helpful.

[IAmTheMilkMan]

It's about time, I say. I've always thought it to be absolutely absurd for one to keep something like this to themselves for so long, especially after the attempts to deliver it to the proper rights holders in hopes of an official release fell through. It's exciting that it's finally out there, and I'm grateful for it.

That said, I would love to have the original untouched lossless audio files for my own editing purposes. So... if anyone out there has that sort of thing... and feels generous enough... drop me a line, ay?

[Jinzoningen MULE]

It's about time, I say. I've always thought it to be absolutely absurd for one to keep something like this to themselves for so long, especially after the attempts to deliver it to the proper rights holders in hopes of an official release fell through. It's exciting that it's finally out there, and I'm grateful for it.

That said, I would love to have the original untouched lossless audio files for my own editing purposes. So... if anyone out there has that sort of thing... and feels generous enough... drop me a line, ay?

I don't get people's objections. It's not like we were on the verge of getting an official release, only to have it ruined by this. The main guy behind the project totally bailed on the whole thing, and though Sabat did get a serviceable version of the audio, the chance for a release was and is still practically zero.

I know nothing about encoding, but you could still make this audio work for any project you need by sacrificing a bit of the compact file size, right? Is that how it works?

[IAmTheMilkMan]

I don't get people's objections. It's not like we were on the verge of getting an official release, only to have it ruined by this. The main guy behind the project totally bailed on the whole thing, and though Sabat did get a serviceable version of the audio, the chance for a release was and is still practically zero.

Exactly. As far as I'm concerned, it was never going to happen in any official capacity, so keeping it locked away wasn't going to do anyone any good.

I know nothing about encoding, but you could still make this audio work for any project you need by sacrificing a bit of the compact file size, right? Is that how it works?

Oh, yeah, I could still make it work. I would unavoidably lose some quality in the process due to the hazards that come with re-encoding a lossless file, but any audible difference would, honestly, be negligible to almost everyone. The main reason I'm interested in the original untouched files is so that I can take a crack at removing the VHS noise myself. I don't know if I'd be able to do any better than they did--they did a good job, after all--but it would be nice to know that I tried.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Surprised this thread isn't locked?

Anyway Derek Padula said on twitter that Sabat is disappointed that this got leaked but Sabat doesn't know what FUNimation's plans were for it as they haven't told him anything.

So if FUNi were gonna release it I guess it'll have to be sooner rather than later now, luckily Buu Kai has finished releasing so one less thing to worry about.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Anyway Derek Padula said on twitter that Sabat is disappointed that this got leaked but Sabat doesn't know what FUNimation's plans were for it as they haven't told him anything.

So if FUNi were gonna release it I guess it'll have to be sooner rather than later now...

People are so overestimating the weight of this leak, it's a bit odd. It's been up for the better part of a week and is still at less than 150 downloads, the pool of people who care enough to burden their hard disk and are morally fine with this is utterly tiny. Funimation is in the exact same position they were before, the only key difference being that a few more people know what this is now. At this point, it's only increased the value of a potential Broadcast Audio release as far as I can see. It's still not particularly likely, but putting this through official channels was never very believable, so nothing has changed.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Anyway Derek Padula said on twitter that Sabat is disappointed that this got leaked but Sabat doesn't know what FUNimation's plans were for it as they haven't told him anything.

So if FUNi were gonna release it I guess it'll have to be sooner rather than later now...

People are so overestimating the weight of this leak, it's a bit odd. It's been up for the better part of a week and is still at less than 150 downloads, the pool of people who care enough to burden their hard disk and are morally fine with this is utterly tiny. Funimation is in the exact same position they were before, the only key difference being that a few more people know what this is now. At this point, it's only increased the value of a potential Broadcast Audio release as far as I can see. It's still not particularly likely, but putting this through official channels was never very believable, so nothing has changed.

Yeah was gonna edit my post saying that the people interested in the broadcast audio are gonna buy it regardless of the leak so doesn't matter. Things leak all the time yet sales still happen.

With 4x3 Z being uploaded on FUNiNow and with AX coming up soon maybe FUNi are planning an announcement there? Unlikely but it's interesting.

[Ikazvyr]

The chances of getting better or official sources are the same as it was before the leak. Kei won't share his collection to the public. The only chances we got were through hard work, collecting VHS tapes even from fansubs. Some people (specially one guy who's unworthy to cite his name) likes to point that this source is shit, but even this shitty source is better than any official release, so I'm fine with this

Considering that our chances were zero, this getting popular and public could show that fans care about quality sources, but we're still minimal, so it WILL NOT AFFECT at all like it wasn't affecting before it. The fandom is the same, Toei is still the same. Only the future will answer, but having hope that Toei would give a shit without popular pressure? This is our first real chance if you think properly

Sabat being disappointed is understandable, but I'm not sure if FUNimation alone could raise their voices or negotiate

[Danfun64]

With 4x3 Z being uploaded on FUNiNow

Wait, what? This is the first I've heard of this. What transfers are being used? Considering that the possibility of using the Dragon Boz footage is near zero, and since I doubt they're interested in putting out raw HD footage, the most likely answer is using their old digibeta transfer for everything, perhaps zoomed in and dvnred ala the green and blue bricks. Second most likely might be the Level set video for Season One and the aformemtioned Digibeta footage for everything else.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

With 4x3 Z being uploaded on FUNiNow

Wait, what? This is the first I've heard of this. What transfers are being used? Considering that the possibility of using the Dragon Boz footage is near zero, and since I doubt they're interested in putting out raw HD footage, the most likely answer is using their old digibeta transfer for everything, perhaps zoomed in and dvnred ala the green and blue bricks. Second most likely might be the Level set video for Season One and the aformemtioned Digibeta footage for everything else.

Not all of the episodes have been switched over, but it does look like the Dragon Boxes. In any case, I doubt it has much to do with this.

[simtek34]

With 4x3 Z being uploaded on FUNiNow

Wait, what? This is the first I've heard of this. What transfers are being used? Considering that the possibility of using the Dragon Boz footage is near zero, and since I doubt they're interested in putting out raw HD footage, the most likely answer is using their old digibeta transfer for everything, perhaps zoomed in and dvnred ala the green and blue bricks. Second most likely might be the Level set video for Season One and the aformemtioned Digibeta footage for everything else.

Not all of the episodes have been switched over, but it does look like the Dragon Boxes. In any case, I doubt it has much to do with this.

Wait... Which episodes so far have Dragon Box quality footage? I just checked episode 1, and it was still cropped and DVNR'd to hell on the Dub and Sub video!

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Wait, what? This is the first I've heard of this. What transfers are being used? Considering that the possibility of using the Dragon Boz footage is near zero, and since I doubt they're interested in putting out raw HD footage, the most likely answer is using their old digibeta transfer for everything, perhaps zoomed in and dvnred ala the green and blue bricks. Second most likely might be the Level set video for Season One and the aformemtioned Digibeta footage for everything else.

Not all of the episodes have been switched over, but it does look like the Dragon Boxes. In any case, I doubt it has much to do with this.

Wait... Which episodes so far have Dragon Box quality footage? I just checked episode 1, and it was still cropped and DVNR'd to hell on the Dub and Sub video!

Ugh... don't make me look. I saw it somewhere in the Boo Arc, check there.

Edit: Check whichever episode this is from. [spoiler][/spoiler]

[simtek34]

Not all of the episodes have been switched over, but it does look like the Dragon Boxes. In any case, I doubt it has much to do with this.

Wait... Which episodes so far have Dragon Box quality footage? I just checked episode 1, and it was still cropped and DVNR'd to hell on the Dub and Sub video!

Ugh... don't make me look. I saw it somewhere in the Boo Arc, check there.

Edit: Check whichever episode this is from. [spoiler][/spoiler]

Aaand... since I have a free account, I can't watch past episode 10. That sucks for me.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

The chances of getting better or official sources are the same as it was before the leak. Kei won't share his collection to the public. The only chances we got were through hard work, collecting VHS tapes even from fansubs. Some people (specially one guy who's unworthy to cite his name) likes to point that this source is shit, but even this shitty source is better than any official release, so I'm fine with this

Considering that our chances were zero, this getting popular and public could show that fans care about quality sources, but we're still minimal, so it WILL NOT AFFECT at all like it wasn't affecting before it. The fandom is the same, Toei is still the same. Only the future will answer, but having hope that Toei would give a shit without popular pressure? This is our first real chance if you think properly

Sabat being disappointed is understandable, but I'm not sure if FUNimation alone could raise their voices or negotiate

Now that it is out there I think if Toei were smart they should allow FUNi to release it and capitalise, but like you said Toei is Toei so who knows.

[Ikazvyr]

Now that it is out there I think if Toei were smart they should allow FUNi to release it and capitalise, but like you said Toei is Toei so who knows.

It's all in Toei's hands and always be. OBA will be very welcome in Japan, specially that they only have Dragon Boxes, but FUNi... They'll hardly sell if all they got gonna be "better japanese audio" since the casual fans only care about the usual DBZ with Falconer score. This needs to be great and well announced, showing fans why they must have it and why OBA is better. Several re-releases made us want another one only if it's anything new and good. This has to be new Level Sets or similar/better remasters