Unpopular DB opinions

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by ABED » Thu Jul 27, 2017 8:43 pm

How did he act stupid?
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Gray Riders » Thu Jul 27, 2017 9:49 pm

ABED wrote:How did he act stupid?
I've actually been re-reading the manga recently so it's fresh on my mind. Here's a list of what I've seen/remembered so far:
*Is told--and sees--that #19 can absorb energy. Intentionally lets #19 grab him to confirm it. #19 drains so much he needs to bluff his way out of fighting #20. Piccolo praises him as a genius for this, reinforcing my belief that Piccolo was also an idiot before rejoining with Kami.
*Despite having just let #19 drain him to confirm they can do it, tries to flush out #20 with a massive energy blast. It shockingly gets absorbed and #20 escapes.
*Lets Cell absorb #18, because as Zarbon showed, there's no way an enemy transforming could put them from much weaker than him to kicking his ass.
More may happen I've forgotten about, but in the Freeza saga he actually had fairly realistic understandings of his ability and tried to avoid fighting Freeza himself and the Ginyu. In the Cell saga he turned into Leeroy Jenkins.

I'll give him a bit of a pass for the Buu saga since everyone there is a moron.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by OhHiRenan » Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:39 pm

It's always disappointing to see people mistake character flaws like hubris and arrogance with stupidity.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by 8000 Saiyan » Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:45 pm

Dragon Ball Ireland wrote:
8000 Saiyan wrote:I never had a problem with Nozawa as Adult Goku.
I'll admit it sounded different on first listen especially because I started the Japanese version with Z, but by the end of the Saiyan arc I ended up loving her portrayal of adult Goku. It's just a perfect fit for the character all things considered (being a manchild, a country bumpkin, phenomenal screaming ability). Schemmel has improved tremendously for sure, and I can picture adult Goku with his voice without issues, but he's still no Nozawa.
Given that Dragon Ball is unrealistic and odd, I never minded Nozawa's adult Goku. It's a voice that works and I don't see anyone doing a better job than Nozawa.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Gray Riders » Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:48 pm

OhHiRenan wrote:It's always disappointing to see people mistake character flaws like hubris and arrogance with stupidity.
Letting someone grab and absorb his power and then trying to blast someone he just confirmed can absorb energy isn't arrogant. It's stupid.

Frankly, I believe arrogance to the point you make the same mistake over and over is a form of stupidity.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by MaskedRider » Fri Jul 28, 2017 12:41 am

father forgive me for this unpopular opinion that shall have everyone firing lava out their mouth to burn my face off
I think Super has a better overall theme in story and flow than Z

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Gog » Fri Jul 28, 2017 2:13 am

MaskedRider wrote:father forgive me for this unpopular opinion that shall have everyone firing lava out their mouth to burn my face off
I think Super has a better overall theme in story and flow than Z
Oh, that really is an unpopular opinion. I do ask, but could you please elaborate on your opinion? :) Also, don't worry this is Kanzenshuu nobody is going to fire lava to burn your face off.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Ripper 30 » Fri Jul 28, 2017 2:48 am

8000 Saiyan wrote:
Dragon Ball Ireland wrote:
8000 Saiyan wrote:I never had a problem with Nozawa as Adult Goku.
I'll admit it sounded different on first listen especially because I started the Japanese version with Z, but by the end of the Saiyan arc I ended up loving her portrayal of adult Goku. It's just a perfect fit for the character all things considered (being a manchild, a country bumpkin, phenomenal screaming ability). Schemmel has improved tremendously for sure, and I can picture adult Goku with his voice without issues, but he's still no Nozawa.
Given that Dragon Ball is unrealistic and odd, I never minded Nozawa's adult Goku. It's a voice that works and I don't see anyone doing a better job than Nozawa.
yet she is hated by almost Most of the Fandom.
I prefer Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z, DB/Z/GT Movies, Dragon Ball Super and Dragon Ball GT in Japanese.
For DBZ Kai and two new Movies I like both Dub and Sub. I Prefer Shunsuke Kikuchi Soundtracks over All other Composers.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by 8000 Saiyan » Fri Jul 28, 2017 6:28 am

Ripper 30 wrote:
8000 Saiyan wrote:
Dragon Ball Ireland wrote:
I'll admit it sounded different on first listen especially because I started the Japanese version with Z, but by the end of the Saiyan arc I ended up loving her portrayal of adult Goku. It's just a perfect fit for the character all things considered (being a manchild, a country bumpkin, phenomenal screaming ability). Schemmel has improved tremendously for sure, and I can picture adult Goku with his voice without issues, but he's still no Nozawa.
Given that Dragon Ball is unrealistic and odd, I never minded Nozawa's adult Goku. It's a voice that works and I don't see anyone doing a better job than Nozawa.
yet she is hated by almost Most of the Fandom.
Hated by almost most of the fandom? That's an exaggeration.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by dbs fanboy » Fri Jul 28, 2017 7:24 am

MaskedRider wrote:father forgive me for this unpopular opinion that shall have everyone firing lava out their mouth to burn my face off
I think Super has a better overall theme in story and flow than Z
You're a brave man, i hope you don't get killed :lol:
I really miss ma boy, Black :( :cry:


dbgtFO wrote:

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by ABED » Fri Jul 28, 2017 7:38 am

Gray Riders wrote:
ABED wrote:How did he act stupid?
I've actually been re-reading the manga recently so it's fresh on my mind. Here's a list of what I've seen/remembered so far:
*Is told--and sees--that #19 can absorb energy. Intentionally lets #19 grab him to confirm it. #19 drains so much he needs to bluff his way out of fighting #20. Piccolo praises him as a genius for this, reinforcing my belief that Piccolo was also an idiot before rejoining with Kami.
*Despite having just let #19 drain him to confirm they can do it, tries to flush out #20 with a massive energy blast. It shockingly gets absorbed and #20 escapes.
*Lets Cell absorb #18, because as Zarbon showed, there's no way an enemy transforming could put them from much weaker than him to kicking his ass.
More may happen I've forgotten about, but in the Freeza saga he actually had fairly realistic understandings of his ability and tried to avoid fighting Freeza himself and the Ginyu. In the Cell saga he turned into Leeroy Jenkins.

I'll give him a bit of a pass for the Buu saga since everyone there is a moron.
I will give you the first two, but the last one is a mixed case. It's dumb of him to not get by then that letting enemies reach their full power has bitten him in the ass, but if he wants a better fight, letting them transform achieves that goal.

Vegeta was stupid for letting 19 take his energy because what does he gain from knowing firsthand? He should just avoid 19's hands.
Last edited by ABED on Fri Jul 28, 2017 7:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by MaskedRider » Fri Jul 28, 2017 7:41 am

Gog wrote:
MaskedRider wrote:father forgive me for this unpopular opinion that shall have everyone firing lava out their mouth to burn my face off
I think Super has a better overall theme in story and flow than Z
Oh, that really is an unpopular opinion. I do ask, but could you please elaborate on your opinion? :) Also, don't worry this is Kanzenshuu nobody is going to fire lava to burn your face off.
I want to say first I'm not saying Z is bad, I should rephrase in that Super flows better thematically than Z. Super is focusing on the relationship between mortals and Gods / the divine and each arc shows this in one way or another versus Z which, to me, focused on character's personal struggles and how they overcome with the villain being there to help achieve that; I love Z for that but this is where I can appreciate Super for being different, its concentration on a bigger picture and end goal; it isn't Z where you have an arc and it ends and you move onto the next one, Super refuses to follow after Z and I love it for being a different product. I am typing this with no sleep, forgive me if I am all over the place.

Not many like Chouzetsu Dynamic and find it boring but I love it and it helped me know what Super is about; not knowing better and mortals transcending their place to challenge the Gods with grand, intense, violent, dynamic action! and doing it in Dragon Ball fashion :D

The series had to take baby steps in going about this. To me, Battle of Gods isn't just about how the characters are going to stop Beerus from destroying Earth, its about how mortals can achieve the strength they need to be equal with God to stop God and because this is Dragon Ball its use of having Saiyans to do this is genius. If this were Z, an individual unlocked Super Saiyan through anger or its grades by training so they can use the strength for their own gain but Super is not Z and the way you have to achieve the divine SS form is going against the nature of who a Saiyan is much like in the real world you have to go against your nature as man to be considered behaving Godly. I wrote about it when I was talking about the design of Super Saiyan God and why it was more than a "lazy recolor"
(viewtopic.php?f=25&t=30157&p=1350956#p1350956)

RoF is generally agreed to be weak as a story in both movie and arc (I agree) but that doesn't stop it from continuing the theme of mortals dealing with the divine. I for the life of me cannot remember anything significant, but what I can say is that this was a story about the desire to have God's power for one own's gain. If I recall correctly, Whis tempts Vegeta to be able to achieve this power because he knows he wants to have it to catch up with Goku, Frieza gains power because of his lustful vengeance on Goku and Trunks humiliating him. Honestly yeah, it would have been nice to see Vegeta be the one to kill Frieza but it makes more sense for Goku to have because when you understand what having to achieve Super Saiyan God meant, Vegeta would kill Frieza in vengeance name and yeah that is satisfying but Goku kills Frieza because its the right thing to do while also being a character conflict hurdle of him having mercy on the villains. Goku allowing Frieza to live the first time on Namek in hopes he changes despite having killed his best friend is what makes Goku deserving of this kill in RoF. You know what, I'm going to go even further, there was nothing wrong with bringing Frieza back because Vegeta and Frieza's vengeance is what the problem is, Goku had none of that. I just basically ranted for this, I'm so sorry I just am not invested in RoF.

Now we get to the tournament with Universe Six. the tournament is what you make of it, I thought it was fun while others may have found it boring and that is okay but the tournament had more meaning thematically than being another Dragon Ball tournament. Rules, the Gods of Destruction fought over what rules the mortals should follow (Well, the surface level being Champa arguing with Beerus that the rules set in place puts Beerus at an advantage because Champa wants to change the rules and allow Hit to kill Goku so he can win). Both Hit and Goku realized they were being used as pieces to a game the Gods set up so that they can play to use to settle Champa wanting Universe Seven's Earth in his own universe without breaking the rules of Gods of Destruction not being allowed to fight with one another. Goku and Hit wanted to fight to their heart's content the more they became familiarized with eachother but with those two Gods dictating as to how their "pawns" should fight it made Goku forfeit to spite them. Hit follows Goku's action to spite God by forfeiting himself to Monaka (While also being a moment for the books of comedy gold in DB for me). Now you have a bigger God, the all mighty Zeno, wanting to do what Beerus and Champa have done, using mortals as pawns, but instead this time for pure entertainment instead of settling an argument.

The Future Trunk's arc could not be more clearer as to what it was about. Zamasu being a wrathful God who punished mortals for not following what he believes to be just, Gowasu being the forgiveness that Christ had toward man (Luke 23:34) which helps compare and contrast the type of God that Gowasu and Zamasu are which can be seen in the episode that they travel to the planet with the barbarians. The ending is beautiful not only because of its bittersweetness but because it shows God is always just, at first showing Zamasu's justice wins in the end but what Future Zeno believes in overpowering that. I believe it was you, Gog, that wrote a good post about the ending showing that HOPE!! had more meaning now than it did before, maybe it was a different user but I thought that aspect was a treat for the mortals.

The Universal Survival arc is taking the pawn aspect and what I said about Zeno using mortals for entertainment and eventually the mortals will have to overcome destruction bla bla bla I'm sorry its seven in the morning and this arc ain't over yet and my brain is going coo coo but I hope that was a good elaboration. :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: Maybe I'll make a thread in the future about this when I'm more in the zone

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by ABED » Fri Jul 28, 2017 7:43 am

I should rephrase in that Super flows better thematically than Z.
Themes are great, but they are abstract. What matters is the execution.
its about how mortals can achieve the strength they need to be equal with God to stop God and because this is Dragon Ball its use of having Saiyans to do this is genius.
He never got as strong as Beerus and you could argue that he didn't stop Beerus. Beerus stopped himself.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Ripper 30 » Fri Jul 28, 2017 9:39 am

8000 Saiyan wrote:
Ripper 30 wrote:
8000 Saiyan wrote: Given that Dragon Ball is unrealistic and odd, I never minded Nozawa's adult Goku. It's a voice that works and I don't see anyone doing a better job than Nozawa.
yet she is hated by almost Most of the Fandom.
Hated by almost most of the fandom? That's an exaggeration.
Oh sorry, I meant most of the dub Fandom outside Kanzenshuu. if you go on any Social Interaction Site, they will be appreciating Junko Takeuchi's Naruto, Mayumi Tanaka's Luffy but when it comes to Masako Nozawa's Goku they are like "Strongest Person in the Universe voiced by a woman lol" and then they all start mentioning how great they think dbz dub is and all that hating on JPN version.
I prefer Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z, DB/Z/GT Movies, Dragon Ball Super and Dragon Ball GT in Japanese.
For DBZ Kai and two new Movies I like both Dub and Sub. I Prefer Shunsuke Kikuchi Soundtracks over All other Composers.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by DragonBallKing » Fri Jul 28, 2017 7:00 pm

Ripper 30 wrote:
8000 Saiyan wrote:
Ripper 30 wrote: yet she is hated by almost Most of the Fandom.
Hated by almost most of the fandom? That's an exaggeration.
Oh sorry, I meant most of the dub Fandom outside Kanzenshuu. if you go on any Social Interaction Site, they will be appreciating Junko Takeuchi's Naruto, Mayumi Tanaka's Luffy but when it comes to Masako Nozawa's Goku they are like "Strongest Person in the Universe voiced by a woman lol" and then they all start mentioning how great they think dbz dub is and all that hating on JPN version.
Agreed, seeing shit like this on gamefaqs in 2017 really brings my piss to a boil as a dub fan.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by 8000 Saiyan » Fri Jul 28, 2017 11:19 pm

Ripper 30 wrote:
8000 Saiyan wrote:
Ripper 30 wrote: yet she is hated by almost Most of the Fandom.
Hated by almost most of the fandom? That's an exaggeration.
Oh sorry, I meant most of the dub Fandom outside Kanzenshuu. if you go on any Social Interaction Site, they will be appreciating Junko Takeuchi's Naruto, Mayumi Tanaka's Luffy but when it comes to Masako Nozawa's Goku they are like "Strongest Person in the Universe voiced by a woman lol" and then they all start mentioning how great they think dbz dub is and all that hating on JPN version.
Those people must think that Goku is such a manly character, when he's not as manly as someone like Kenshiro.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by DragonBallKing » Fri Jul 28, 2017 11:31 pm

8000 Saiyan wrote:
Ripper 30 wrote:
8000 Saiyan wrote: Hated by almost most of the fandom? That's an exaggeration.
Oh sorry, I meant most of the dub Fandom outside Kanzenshuu. if you go on any Social Interaction Site, they will be appreciating Junko Takeuchi's Naruto, Mayumi Tanaka's Luffy but when it comes to Masako Nozawa's Goku they are like "Strongest Person in the Universe voiced by a woman lol" and then they all start mentioning how great they think dbz dub is and all that hating on JPN version.
Those people must think that Goku is such a manly character, when he's not as manly as someone like Kenshiro.
He's more childlike than manly in that he can be a bit selfish and doesn't think about the consequences very often. Some people want complete realism in a show like Dragon Ball and Large muscles and a high pitch voice don't go together to them.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Ripper 30 » Sat Jul 29, 2017 7:44 am

DragonBallKing wrote:
8000 Saiyan wrote:
Ripper 30 wrote:
Oh sorry, I meant most of the dub Fandom outside Kanzenshuu. if you go on any Social Interaction Site, they will be appreciating Junko Takeuchi's Naruto, Mayumi Tanaka's Luffy but when it comes to Masako Nozawa's Goku they are like "Strongest Person in the Universe voiced by a woman lol" and then they all start mentioning how great they think dbz dub is and all that hating on JPN version.
Those people must think that Goku is such a manly character, when he's not as manly as someone like Kenshiro.
He's more childlike than manly in that he can be a bit selfish and doesn't think about the consequences very often. Some people want complete realism in a show like Dragon Ball and Large muscles and a high pitch voice don't go together to them.
[spoiler]"Japan must have "s*** tastes", because I just saw this a few days ago: http://en.rocketnews24.com/2017/05/17/a ... cs-awards/

It really tells you how worthy their "awards" are if they're awarding to the "worst of the worst voices" according to this board."[/spoiler]

Seriously these kind of Ignorant Dub fans on those Forums are the Worse
I prefer Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z, DB/Z/GT Movies, Dragon Ball Super and Dragon Ball GT in Japanese.
For DBZ Kai and two new Movies I like both Dub and Sub. I Prefer Shunsuke Kikuchi Soundtracks over All other Composers.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by omaro34 » Mon Jul 31, 2017 1:39 pm

Dende calling himself the "Guardian of Earth" yet not having to throw a single punch the entire show is the very ironic. What does he "guard" exactly? The Dragonballs? It's just a fancy title, nothing more. Outside of being linked to the balls he doesn't offer much else aside from healing.

At least Kami had an excuse and was an older Namekian, and did know how to defend himself.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by ABED » Mon Jul 31, 2017 1:45 pm

omaro34 wrote:Dende calling himself the "Guardian of Earth" yet not having to throw a single punch the entire show is the very ironic. What does he "guard" exactly? The Dragonballs? It's just a fancy title, nothing more. Outside of being linked to the balls he doesn't offer much else aside from healing.

At least Kami had an excuse and was an older Namekian, and did know how to defend himself.
Kami means "God". Dende becomes Kami. The Kami that is the other half of Piccolo is not named "Kami". The only name we're given is he's the child of Katatsu.
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