Unpopular DB opinions

[DestructoDisc]

The only sagas from OG Dragon Ball that I liked were the tournament sagas. Every other saga was bad to me because they were so boring. King Piccolo saga started out great but Yajirobe was a pain in the neck, and King Piccolo was a boring villain.

[Marlowe89]

I've got one that would probably be considered unpopular:

Goku and Vegeta's Resurrection 'F' outfits are beyond bland, particularly when Super Saiyan Blue isn't in use, which is what they were most likely designed for from a color theory perspective. If there's anything I appreciate about them, it's the Whis symbol, a small touch that gives their clothing a bit of character; otherwise, I'm kind of relieved that those were exclusive to only two arcs.

[PFM18]

I would imagine this one is very unpopular that I just realized:

Vegeta's character development in the Buu saga was handled very poorly. Obviously the goal was to show some character development for Vegeta but I don't think it was executed very well at all.

[ABED]

I would imagine this one is very unpopular that I just realized:

Vegeta's character development in the Buu saga was handled very poorly. Obviously the goal was to show some character development for Vegeta but I don't think it was executed very well at all.

Care to elaborate?

[Gligarman]

Fuck it. No shame here. I think Toppo's hot! Both his normal and God of Destruction forms!

[Cure Dragon 255]

God you are awesome.-

[Gligarman]

God you are awesome.-

Thank you! Right back at ya!

[Robo4900]

What do you mean by interesting? How does that differ from entertaining? Just looking at a google search of the definitions, they are remarkably similar.

I thought my meaning was quite clear from the context.
What I meant was that Freeza has no real depth, no deeper motivations, there's no real complexity to who he is, his role in the narrative, no real metaphor to get into... The only real way you can dig down is by pointing out he's like those land sharks that ruined the economy of Japan a while back, but that's more of a neat piece of historical trivia on how Toriyama conceived of the character than anything actually of any interest about the character himself.
The thing is, Freeza is fun as the big boss the arc is building up to the heroes fighting; he's the biggest bad in the arc, and the plot mostly revolves around people avoiding him, and trying to hold off or avoid direct confrontations with him, and even he himself avoids confrontations with anyone else, preferring to get the Ginyus to dirty their hands... He's like the Super Saiyan transformation; pretty much there purely for the big fight at the end of the arc, with the rest of the arc just getting on with its plot while pointing and hinting at how cool this thing potentially may be in the fight at the end.
And, once the arc is over, Freeza has served his purpose. He wouldn't fit in a longer character arc like Piccolo, Vegeta, or Tenshinhan, because he's basically just an evil for evil's sake monster. Having him linger would, at best, lead to him being someone who hangs around in space, rallying forces for a future fight; that's not a character thing, that's just a plot hook... And ultimately, that's really what Freeza is, he's just a plot hook. A good plot hook who's fun to watch being evil, but that's all he is.
Freeza isn't a comically tragic figure like Pilaf, he doesn't have sudden surprising depth and insecurity that comes out of no-where later on and provides new insight into his motivations all along, he's not a man who's been betrayed a lied to all his life whose character arc builds up to a serious crisis of faith, he's not someone who suddenly breaks down everything we know about what Dragon Ball is, he's not someone who starts out seeming like a fairly standard evil renegade monster who slowly becomes a somewhat peaceful family man, he's not a group of people who were brainwashed and abused by their creator, leading them to just want to live lives of indulgeance, leading to them ultimatley either destroying everything around them, or their entire world getting turned upside-down leading them to take a more peaceful route in life, he's not a child who simply doesn't know better, Freeza is just evil.

Just evil is fine, but it's not deep or complex, and while he's fun to watch, there's nothing to dig into after having watched his portions of the show. So, for me at least, all the other villains in Dragon Ball are a lot more interesting to think about after the fact, and have a lot more to them within the show, so I find them a lot more interesting to dig into.

Does that make things clear?

Freeza does fear the Saiyans. Why pre-emptively destroy them if he wasn't of the prophecy? He's afraid they will usurp him.

Sure, a little. But it wasn't like he was scared out of his mind, or legitimately terrified, he just had the thought that "Hmm... This guys are actually pretty strong. Better kill them all to be safe."
If it was a legitimate, deep-seated fear, I doubt he would have made a big show of going to the planet, and laughing so joyfully at Bardock's face. He didn't seem to take any of it particularly seriously, it seemed like just a routine planet-destruction.

I'm very willing to dig into this with you, because if there is more depth to find in here, I'd find that fascinating to talk about, but the way I see it, he's probably destroyed countless planets where he thought "Well, these guys are strong... How about I just keep the few of them I like, and kill the rest in case they rise up against me."
I get the sense it's on an intellectual level; he's thought this through, and he's utterly fine with just destroying a planet every now and then, because that's just how evil he is. Given the fact we only ever see one of Zarbon, one of Dodoria, one of Captain Ginyu, one of Jheese, one of Butta... I don't think it's unreasonable to assume he took the strong ones, then had their planets destroyed.

It's hardly meaningless. It means that the ideas being presented COULD be interesting if they were executed better. A lot of the ideas sound appealing on paper but because the writing and the fighting were bad, the ideas fall flat. It's at the heart of this discussion. You can analyze things all you want, and it can all sound great on paper, but if the character isn't entertaining, doesn't hold your attention, then all the deep analysis in the world won't matter. Red isn't made more entertaining by discussing his Napoleon complex. He's little more than a generic evil boss with a funny motivation.

No, I still don't think "Execution" has any real meaning here. It's more of a category of criticism than a criticism in itself. Again, I direct you to the GT example; people say "Good ideas, bad execution." Thing is, that doesn't tell you anything about what the person saying this actually thinks went wrong here. Did they think the pacing and structure was off-putting and ruined the dramatic tension to a degree that they couldn't take it seriously? I would strongly disagree with that criticism, but at least there's something to discuss or understand there; I can see why someone might not like something if they can actually talk about what didn't work for them, but if you lump it under the vague category of "Bad execution", there's nothing to discuss. It's a hand-wave, really.

So... You don't think he's made more entertaining by discussing his Napoleon complex. I don't think he's much more entertaining in the show by that, but it recontextualises his character, actually adds motivation for why he's an "Evil boss", and it's a funny scene. But, the big thing for me isn't its immediate effect, because its immediate effect is essentially just a trigger for Black's betrayal, and the ultimate climax of the arc(Not to diss that whole affair, though; I really love that whole sequence of events). The big thing for me is what it implies as I think over his character after the fact. And that's the thing I think Freeza lacks.
I guess you and I just watch Dragon Ball differently, and enjoy our media differently; you pay more attention to what's immediately on screen, I tend to think things over and analyse them for years after I've seen them. One isn't better than the other, it's just different, and I guess it leads to very different outlooks on Red and Freeza. And... I find that fascinating.

It's not. Buu is a magical creation and his personality changes based on magical stimuli. The whole reason he has any good in him is because he absorbed a good deity. In his purest form, he's destruction incarnate. Again, I go back to YOU are adding all this subtext

I am not. It's true that Boo became who he is because of the deities he absorbed, but the circumstances of Boo's creation don't change who he is. And it's very clear he is, mentally, just a child. As fat Boo, he's essentially just a big child who doesn't particularly want to destroy things, it's just all he knows. Remember his conversations with Mr. Satan?
Super Boo has a rather strong destructive impulse, and basically lacks all the empathy of fat Boo, and the pure Boo form is essentially Boo's pure destructive impulse; everything that made fat Boo into Super Boo is there. If this was all there was to it, I think you would just about have a point...
However, remember that what made Super Boo into pure Boo was that they pulled fat Boo out of him. Super Boo was the result of fat Boo being the lesser part of the personified destructive impulse that Bibidi had originally created, rather than the destructive impulse being the lesser part of what Boo is. What made pure Boo was that they took the fat Boo out of Super Boo. This is what happened in the series; it's not subtext, it's very clearly what went on. And so, while pure Boo is technically the original form of Boo, ultimately, that thing was separate from the fat Boo who lived on after the story was over.

Fat Boo, by the time of the Boo arc, was his own person, not simply the destructive thing with some layers on top of it. And Boo's story is quite literally one of Boo's destructive impulses taking him over, doing harm to others, and eventually, having to be conquered, which was only able to happen through the intervention of other people. The metaphor of a child conquering his demons with the help of others seems pretty clear to me.

What you and I find interesting or entertaining are different. Not everyone needs things to be relatable to be interesting. It can help but it's not a pre-requisite.

Indeed. There's no problem with us having different definitions of what's interesting and/or enjoyable. It makes for interesting discussion, so I would say it's a good thing, if anything.

[ABED]

Red has no depth, at least not in the text. The depth is what you added to it in your analysis. Toriyama treats it as little more than a joke. That's my thesis of your analysis. If you think Red has actual depth, you either haven't looked hard enough at Freeza to mine it, or you have given Red WAY too much credit. And tragedy doesn't equal depth. Depth has to do with the degree of abstraction and understanding, but plenty of "tragic" characters aren't interesting.

I guess you and I just watch Dragon Ball differently, and enjoy our media differently; you pay more attention to what's immediately on screen, I tend to think things over and analyse them for years after I've seen them. One isn't better than the other, it's just different, and I guess it leads to very different outlooks on Red and Freeza. And... I find that fascinating.

That's an unfair statement. I'm not so concrete bound that I can't enjoy a deep analysis of what I read or watch, I just don't make more out of a one note joke and claim it's a great bit of characterization and deep motivation, It's not. A Napoleon complex that is treated by it's author without any actual depth beyond a joke at the very end just to subvert expectations for the sake of laugh doesn't give me much reason to look at the character for more than he actually is. If you see more, then more power to ya.

No, I still don't think "Execution" has any real meaning here.

Then I don't know what to tell you. This statement IS meant to be a general criticism. Many stories have this fault. They have cool sounding ideas, but because of things like perhaps bad acting, pacing, dialog, etc. the actual execution of the idea doesn't live up to how interesting the idea sounded. The fact that it's vague doesn't mean it's wrong, and it's not like it's hard to find statements on this forum that elaborate on this point with specific examples of badly executed ideas from GT that sounded good on paper. For instance, plenty of people point to Baby. They say the idea of victim of the Saiyans coming for revenge sounds great, but Baby ultimately devolves into little more than a parasite that's evil for the sake of being evil. Whatever pathos he has goes out the window.

Two final points:
1) Damn near every story is about putting off the final confrontation until the end.
2) I'm glad that Freeza serves his purpose and then was gone. Sadly they brought him back because unless he's going to grow and change, it's not a good idea to keep bringing him back. The reason he doesn't change like Piccolo who started off as literally the embodiment of evil for the sake of evil (he was no less evil than Freeza) is because the arc of bad to good had been done several times before.
Given those two things, you make them seem like criticisms. They weren't bugs, they're features.

[Hawk9211]

The only sagas from OG Dragon Ball that I liked were the tournament sagas. Every other saga was bad to me because they were so boring. King Piccolo saga started out great but Yajirobe was a pain in the neck, and King Piccolo was a boring villain.

Only sagas?That’s like more than half of series.What else remains?An extremely short first arc which is barely above average for most series or red ribbon army which isn’t that much long it is just padded with filler and it also has a mini tournament.Even king piccolo arc is quite short and about piccolo daimao you’re just watching the series backwards.The reason king piccolo is considered a great villain because it breaks the already established story conventions in the previous arcs.Goku is completely outclassed for the first time,first completely evil and non comedic antagonist,kills a major character etc.

[DestructoDisc]

The only sagas from OG Dragon Ball that I liked were the tournament sagas. Every other saga was bad to me because they were so boring. King Piccolo saga started out great but Yajirobe was a pain in the neck, and King Piccolo was a boring villain.

Only sagas?That’s like more than half of series.What else remains?An extremely short first arc which is barely above average for most series or red ribbon army which isn’t that much long it is just padded with filler and it also has a mini tournament.Even king piccolo arc is quite short and about piccolo daimao you’re just watching the series backwards.The reason king piccolo is considered a great villain because it breaks the already established story conventions in the previous arcs.Goku is completely outclassed for the first time,first completely evil and non comedic antagonist,kills a major character etc.

Ok, cool. I still didn't find him interesting and I found the arc to be boring and annoying.

[jeffbr92]

Fuck it. No shame here. I think Toppo's hot! Both his normal and God of Destruction forms!

I believe the charm is on his moustache lol

[PsionicWarrior]

^^True that Toppo got one amazing mustache lol

[Gligarman]

The stache is most definitely a contributing factor.

[PFM18]

I would imagine this one is very unpopular that I just realized:

Vegeta's character development in the Buu saga was handled very poorly. Obviously the goal was to show some character development for Vegeta but I don't think it was executed very well at all.

Care to elaborate?

Well first of all, you have the scene where he is training with Trunks in the time chamber. He sees Trunks go SSJ and he doesn't give Trunks any kind of praise of any kind but rather just complains about SSJ becoming child's play. Then, he tells him that if he hits him once then he will take him to the park. Trunks hits him, and instead of actually training his son and being happy with progress or the place that he's at, he is instead not at all training Trunks but just wanted to brag about how strong he is. He punches Trunks back, and more importantly doesn't actually take Trunks to the park.

This scene wasn't really a big deal but it'd be an opportunity to show Vegeta kind of showing a softer side with his son, even just for a little bit, rather than just being an a**hole while his son happens to be there.

The Majin Vegeta scene where he blows himself up is grossly overrated to me. He goes on this huge tirade about how having a family made him weak, and how he resents his family and the lifestyle that is living. Then not much later he hugs trunks and then blows himself up. It was just completely unnatural. And the scene loses all emotion that could be provoked by the viewer because death means absolutely nothing in DB. It is not an emotional scene at all because the DBs remove all tension in situations like this. Death is a joke in DB, to the point where In-Universe Vegeta probably thought he'd get revived very shortly afterwards.(and he did) So it just comes off as Vegeta just being like "Yeah I know I just said that I resent you guys and that you guys make me weak, and murdered thousands of people at the tournament, but I'll blow myself up and we'll be good right? Alright cool see ya next week!"

Then, after fighting Kid Buu for the longest time, and establishing that this character never gives up and perseveres through things no matter what, Then he just kinda admits at the end that he gives up on passing Goku. He just accepts the fact that he is inferior to Goku and gives up on surpassing his rival because reasons. The scene made absolutely no sense. That's not character development. It is not a natural thing for Vegeta to do. It isn't progressing his character forward he is just completely changing as a person altogether to just accept his failure. If anything, it is character regression. I am so happy DBS disregarded this scene altogether and had Vegeta focused on surpassing Goku at the beginning of the series.

So essentially, the only scene where shows any love or compassion towards his family or people in general, is when he hugs Trunks before blowing himself up. The "development" was not cohesive, natural, and some of it was just downright stupid/ridiculous.

[WittyUsername]

After watching MistareFusion/GafferTape’s most recent episode of Dragon Ball Dissection, it’s really starting to dawn on me that I don’t care for the retcon of #16 being made in the image of Dr. Gero’s dead son. That would’ve been fine if it was something that was revealed in the series itself, but it’s painfully obvious that it’s just something Toriyama retroactively came up with in order to try and make Dr. Gero seem like a more fleshed out character. FighterZ at least did something kind of interesting with that idea, but that game obviously isn’t canon to the series itself.

[Yuli Ban]

1: I liked the bloodier, edgier content direction Dragon Ball was going in between the King Piccolo arc and the Cell arc more than I liked the comedic parts of the series, but I prefer the more science fantasy feel of the earlier series over the sheer "only gainz matter" feel of the later series. My preferred style for Dragon Ball would be something more like the first two DBZ movies, being able to combine darker and more serious plots with fantasy. Like a proper Demon Realm arc that was closer in tone to Yu Yu Hakusho.

2: Dragon Ball Super was a very poor series. It will soon be seen as being roughly on par with Dragon Ball GT. It wasn't the Star Wars sequels done right nor was it a show that gets better with multiple rewatches; it was more akin to GT = Sonic 06 :: Super = Sonic Boom: Rise of Lyric. Disappointingly bad, but in different ways. Related to what I said above, Super and GT both seem to suffer from a similar delusion that Dragon Ball was all whimsical comedic fantasy adventures while Dragon Ball Z was all serious sci-fi kung fu action and thus tried to keep action and comedy separate. Both were failures at action and comedy because of this oversimplification. EXCEPT, of course...

3: The baseball episode stands right alongside the filler driving episode, which isn't a very high-stakes statement to make, but it does fund my point: Dragon Ball really isn't that funny. The comedy of the series at large is a lot like most cartoon comedy: so juvenile that it isn't very funny past a certain age. This isn't helped at all by the fact a lot of kids don't want to laugh at Dragon Ball; they want the fights, so if anything, the repeated attempts at making new "comedic" series will always fail and be forced to fall back on action because of what audiences want, but this is made so much easier by the fact so much of the comedy is very, eh... shall I say "Eastern" in nature. And when I say Eastern, I don't mean that Eastern comedy is objectively less funny than Western comedy; it's just a different style, and Eastern children's comedy is an even more exaggerated form of it that doesn't quite translate well a lot of the times. Almost all of the funny moments in Dragon Ball were in the early part of the series, usually due to Goku's inability to grasp social norms, the many outrageous perverted characters just existing at all, the cartoony physics of the show, as well as from the fight scenes themselves. Since Goku either does have a decent grasp of social norms as an adult or doesn't have to show such most of the time, perverted antics are frowned upon, realistic physics have largely taken over (keyword: 'largely'), and the fight scenes are now AT-AT-AT-AT-AT-AT-AT loops with little creativity to them (no more power pole up the ass or being sent to the Moon!), there's very little comedic value to the series. I'm not very amused by "goofy" character designs or lame jokes and haven't been for almost two decades. Then again, this is a children's franchise so what am I expecting?

Actually, I'm really holding back on my 'unpopular' opinions precisely because Dragon Ball is fundamentally a franchise aimed at young Japanese boys that just happened to have a very short-lived sprint of being aimed at older boys. If I could go all out, I'd probably list stuff like "the writing sucks, the character morals are fucked up, the story breaks all sense of narrative logic, there's no creativity in the storytelling, character design is getting lamer, the plot was written by an amateur who'd have gotten an D in any middle school level writing course, etc." but the thing is, it's for younger kids. Though many say "that doesn't excuse anything", it really does a lot of the time. At least historically, Toriyama and Toei's writing team proved that they were much better than Dragon Ball showed off.



Thing is, I don't know if any of these are really "unpopular" opinions. If anything, a lot of people share them and it's generally agreed that this isn't a manga series known for quality storytelling in any sense of the word.
An opinion I have that might actually be unpopular?

4: Goku works better as an antihero and I greatly preferred the characterization he had going into the Tournament of Power where he seemed amused by the idea of being a villain. This is Toriyama's opinion as well, and I just happened to also wind up holding it because it just seems so much cooler to me. When I was younger, I admit that Kung Fu Space Jesus Goku interested me more, but now that I've accepted that this was just a dub creation and the Goku I grew up with was a lie, I've grown enamored by the idea of Goku having a darker, more destructive personality. If there was more of a coherent attempt at fleshing out this dark side of Goku and, more importantly, tying it to his Saiyan genetics, I'd be happy.
And of course, there's that DB-inspired story I'm creating where a good bit of the ethos around it stems from Goku's darker side.
It explains a lot when you think about it. A lot of Z fans Stateside could tell something was always off about Goku, that he was too merciful for his own good. It seemed like he was way too stupid to let Raditz, Vegeta, and the Ginyus go, attempt to let Freeza have a second chance, and not try to stop the artificial humans in advance. But outside of Raditz tricking him, we learned that this wasn't really mercy. With Vegeta and the artificial humans especially, it was just his crippling desire for a good fight.
Then we saw this again when he decided to remind the Zenos of the Tournament of Power purely because he was bored and wanted a challenge. This was controversial with fans only because we grew up with Kung Fu Space Jesus, who would never have been so careless even if he also gave at least one universe a fighting chance of survival.
Goku having a selfish lust for battle but with a heart of gold is now my preferred characterization for him. Even though he only really could have broken through into the West as Kung Fu Space Jesus due to the standards of the time, I wish we got more Barbarian With A Heart of (Harmony) Gold in American DBZ. It's just such an alien mindset, and I love dissecting it in my own story.

[ABED]

Alright, I have no idea what your issue is with the scene where he hit Trunks.

Second, I'll give you death being cheap, but how did you miss the whole point that when he's talking about his family to Goku that's the last gasps of a man desperately holding on to his past? He doesn't actually mean it, deep down. He has grown to love them. Even in the speech to Goku he says he grew to find his life on Earth comfortable.

"Yeah I know I just said that I resent you guys and that you guys make me weak, and murdered thousands of people at the tournament, but I'll blow myself up and we'll be good right? Alright cool see ya next week!"

That's objectively not the case at all. He believes he's going to his death and won't be forgiven. His one final act is to save his family at the cost of his own. He won't get any reward, and he's okay with it. That was the point of his conversation with Piccolo. Even after finding out what happens to evil people in the afterlife, he still goes through with it. If his one final act is to save his family, it's worth it.

Then, after fighting Kid Buu for the longest time, and establishing that this character never gives up and perseveres through things no matter what, Then he just kinda admits at the end that he gives up on passing Goku. He just accepts the fact that he is inferior to Goku and gives up on surpassing his rival because reasons. The scene made absolutely no sense. That's not character development. It is not a natural thing for Vegeta to do. It isn't progressing his character forward he is just completely changing as a person altogether to just accept his failure. If anything, it is character regression. I am so happy DBS disregarded this scene altogether and had Vegeta focused on surpassing Goku at the beginning of the series.

Wow, this is a complete misunderstanding of that moment. He's not giving up. He's finally admitting that Goku is the better of the two and he's giving up his obsession with having to be better than Goku and needing him to know it. He's finally able to admit Goku is better and have it not hurt his ego. What drove Vegeta for so long wasn't healthy competition. Vegeta was arrogant and not only had to be better, he had to have everyone know it. Anything less hurt his self esteem. At the end, he's finally able to admit the truth, Goku is the better fighter. That doesn't mean he can't use Goku as a healthy goal to strive towards, just that someone being stronger doesn't make him feel small. You missed that point by a mile. It was also never established that Vegeta never gives up, at least not in the way you imply. If he doesn't give up, it's in the way an insane person does. They do the same thing over and over and expect a different result.

I think your view stems from a superficial understanding of Vegeta's character and his arc.

[PFM18]

The point with the part where he hit Trunks was that the story gives absolutely no indication that this is a dad who loves his kid and is training him. He just wanted to stroke his ego and easily dodge all of Trunks's attacks. It didn't work out the way he wanted, so he got pissed(He was visibly frustrated) and then hit Trunks. The actual hitting of trunks is more minor than the fact that he clearly didn't give a shit about training his son and helping him get better. Compare that with the scene where Vegeta trains with Future trunks in the Zamasu Arc and how much Vegeta cares for his son is 100x more clear, he still gives "tough love" but the love is there.

That's objectively not the case at all. He believes he's going to his death and won't be forgiven. His one final act is to save his family at the cost of his own. He won't get any reward, and he's okay with it. That was the point of his conversation with Piccolo. Even after finding out what happens to evil people in the afterlife, he still goes through with it.

Maybe, In-Universe, we can't be certain that Vegeta knew he was coming back. It is possible, but I mean even though Piccolo's conversation happened and it was established that Vegeta was going to be treated as an evil person in death, he probably knew Goku and friends would find a way to revive him. Either way, he probably thought there was atleast some chance that he would have salvation because of his heroic and unselfish death.

From an out of Universe perspective, death is a complete joke in this series, everybody and their mother knew Vegeta was coming back when he blows himself up and it completely removes any tension in the scene. I am aware of the conversation with Piccolo, but still. Literally everyone in DBZ outside of Kaioshin, Satan, and Baba die atleast once(often more than once.)

Wow, this is a complete misunderstanding of that moment and of psychology in general. He's not giving up. He's finally admitting that Goku is the better of the two and he's giving up his obsession with having to be better than Goku and needing him to know it. He's finally able to admit Goku is better and have it not hurt his ego. What drove Vegeta for so long wasn't healthy competition. Vegeta was arrogant and not only had to be better, he had to have everyone know it. Anything less hurt his self esteem. At the end, he's finally able to admit the truth, Goku is the better fighter. That doesn't mean he can't use Goku as a healthy goal to strive towards, just that someone being stronger doesn't make him feel small.

You say that I misunderstood the scene and then use the phrase "giving up" in the very first sentence you use to describe this scene. I think that speaks volumes. To me, it was not in Vegeta's character to admit his inferiority and just randomly give up on surpassing Goku because Goku has this crazy, impractical transformation that clearly has massive stamina issues. Why should he admit Goku is better? Vegeta had surpassed him several times before that, and he surpassed him several times after that moment.(in DBS) It wasn't necessarily "healthy" but that just means he should focus less on it rather than clearly give up on surpassing Goku. Vegeta's mentality as far as his motivations to fight and his mindset toward surpassing Goku was handled approximately a million times better in DBS. It just came off to me as Vegeta being a pathetic loser that accepted defeat.

The way he shifted things in DBS, is that he, almost unconsciously, shifted his main motivation from surpassing Goku, to protecting those that he loves. He doesn't even really explicitly show less interest in surpassing Goku, but he cares less when Goku surpasses him in the ToP, and when Goku exhibits his superiority over him with the KK, he instead of whining about Goku surpassing him, focuses on keeping his promise to his dead Saiyan brethren in the face of this massively powerful enemy that made him cast his doubts. This moment, and shift in motivations, culminated in a new transformation. Then, he fully unlocks the power of this new form when he uses his family as motivation further showing how his priorities have truly changed and his identity as a warrior was no longer somebody striving to surpass his rival, but instead to protect his loved ones. Not only is the concept awesome, but it is relatable.

I think I realized how crappy his development was when DBS ended and I realized how much better they handled it in that series IMO.

[ABED]

he still gives "tough love" but the love is there.

You are comparing the character at two different points in the story. One after his big arc is complete. The Vegeta we first met wouldn't have even been as civil as he was during the scene at issue.

he probably knew Goku and friends would find a way to revive him.

That's neither text nor subtext. For one, why would they? And two, he had already been wished back by Earth's DB's before.

Either way, he probably thought there was atleast some chance that he would have salvation because of his heroic and unselfish death.

We know for a fact that's untrue. He tells us the EXACT opposite.

To me, it was not in Vegeta's character to admit his inferiority and just randomly give up on surpassing Goku because Goku has this crazy, impractical transformation that clearly has massive stamina issues. Why should he admit Goku is better?

It's in no way random. Everything since Vegeta's first fight with Goku has been building towards his epiphany. He's not giving up on surpassing Goku. At no point does he say he's giving up on surpassing Goku, he's simply grown out of his insecure need to be better than Goku and having everyone know it. Finally admitting it and being okay with it is healthy. He's not giving up, he's letting go of his insecurities.

Then, he fully unlocks the power of this new form when he uses his family as motivation further showing how his priorities have truly changed and his identity as a warrior was no longer somebody striving to surpass his rival, but instead to protect his loved ones. Not only is the concept awesome, but it is relatable.

In his speech during the Kid Buu fight, part of his realization is that Goku isn't so good merely because he was fighting to protect his friends and family. If that was the case, then surely that would be so for him since Vegeta came to genuinely care for his family as well. He realized the true source of Goku's strength was to be the best he can be for its own sake. While it's nice that Vegeta gets strength from fighting to protect the people he cares about, that's not what DB is at its core. Vegeta's realization about the true source of Goku's skill goes to the root of the story far better than fighting to protect one's loved one, which is a fairly common idea in many narratives.