Unpopular DB opinions

[Ripper 30]

Alright, I have no idea what your issue is with the scene where he hit Trunks.

Second, I'll give you death being cheap , but how did you miss the whole point that when he's talking about his family to Goku that's the last gasps of a man desperately holding on to his past? He doesn't actually mean it, deep down. He has grown to love them. Even in the speech to Goku he says he grew to find his life on Earth comfortable.

didn't they implied that vegeta will receive the same treatment as the villains where their soul is cleansed and he will get Reborn with new memories because his deeds were bad?

[ABED]

Alright, I have no idea what your issue is with the scene where he hit Trunks.

Second, I'll give you death being cheap , but how did you miss the whole point that when he's talking about his family to Goku that's the last gasps of a man desperately holding on to his past? He doesn't actually mean it, deep down. He has grown to love them. Even in the speech to Goku he says he grew to find his life on Earth comfortable.

didn't they implied that vegeta will receive the same treatment as the villains where their soul is cleansed and he will get Reborn with new memories because his deeds were bad?

Piccolo brought that up in their brief conversation before Vegeta gave his life.

[Ripper 30]

Alright, I have no idea what your issue is with the scene where he hit Trunks.

Second, I'll give you death being cheap , but how did you miss the whole point that when he's talking about his family to Goku that's the last gasps of a man desperately holding on to his past? He doesn't actually mean it, deep down. He has grown to love them. Even in the speech to Goku he says he grew to find his life on Earth comfortable.

didn't they implied that vegeta will receive the same treatment as the villains where their soul is cleansed and he will get Reborn with new memories because his deeds were bad?

Piccolo brought that up in their brief conversation before Vegeta gave his life.

that's exactly what made it emotional because even after getting to know that vegeta still has that smile on his face even after knowing it's the end for him, death has a clear meaning here.

[FortuneSSJ]

I wouldn't change anything that makes Goku a "bad father/example".
Stuff like asking Gohan to fight Cell, put fighting above everything else, leave his family to train Uub etc... I see it as part of his charm. Nothing would make Goku's character more boring than make him Mr. Right.

The first one in particular is something I really liked.
The main character give up when everyone is counting on him and ask someone else to take over, and beat the main villain is something that doesn't happen in other shonens. Even after all these years where we have a couple of shonen main characters inspired by Goku, this scene is still one of the many where Goku comes out as an unique main character.

[ABED]

I wouldn't change anything that makes Goku a "bad father/example".
Stuff like asking Gohan to fight Cell, put fighting above everything else, leave his family to train Uub etc... I see it as part of his charm. Nothing would make Goku's character more boring than make him Mr. Right.

The first one in particular is something I really liked.
The main character give up when everyone is counting on him and ask someone else to take over, and beat the main villain is something that doesn't happen in other shonens. Even after all these years where we have a couple of shonen main characters inspired by Goku, this scene is still one of the many where Goku comes out as an unique main character.

Goku didn't ask Gohan to do anything. Gohan was the ONLY ONE who could defeat Cell. That point can't be understated.

[Cure Dragon 255]

I agree with you, but in a different way. Goku DID NOT ASK Gohan. He just pushed him into it and then hoped for the best. And no, being right that he could defeat Cell doesnt make it right.

[ABED]

I agree with you, but in a different way. Goku DID NOT ASK Gohan. He just pushed him into it and then hoped for the best. And no, being right that he could defeat Cell doesnt make it right.

Gohan was the ONLY ONE who could defeat Cell. Goku didn't push Gohan into it. Gohan's power put him in that position. If Goku could've defeated Cell, he wouldn't have let Gohan take over.

[Cure Dragon 255]

That. Doesnt. Mean. He. Asked. Him.

I know it all turned out right but its still a terrible thing he did.

[The Patrolman]

I agree with you, but in a different way. Goku DID NOT ASK Gohan. He just pushed him into it and then hoped for the best. And no, being right that he could defeat Cell doesnt make it right.

I don't see it that way. Gohan throughout their conversation was doubting himself and Goku was ensuring Gohan that he was stronger than him and he had the power defeat Cell.

[Cure Dragon 255]

Look I know Goku isnt a terrible person,and that he was right in the end. HECK! I will even give you that Gohan's feelings dont really matter when the earth is at stake. But even if he did know and trusted Gohan. HE DID NOT ASK HIM. He just went "Its your turn. Break a Leg".

[ABED]

That. Doesnt. Mean. He. Asked. Him.

I know it all turned out right but its still a terrible thing he did.

I'm not pointing out that it all turned out well, I'm saying that Gohan was the only one who could defeat Cell. Goku didn't thrust this responsibility on Gohan at all. Gohan's power put him in that position. Goku didn't do anything terrible because he didn't do anything. Eventually it was going to come down to Gohan whether Goku liked it or not.

Why does it matter whether Gohan was asked? Should it matter given that Gohan was the only one who could win? He could've been nicer and asked or better yet told him his plan, but bottom line, Goku didn't force Gohan to fight Cell. Gohan was forced to fight Cell out of unfortunate circumstances - even at such a young age, he had incredible power. Had Goku been strong enough to defeat Cell, there's no way he would've put that responsibility on Gohan.

[Cure Dragon 255]

Because it isnt terrible, but Goku didnt ask him.

[FortuneSSJ]

Gohan was the ONLY ONE who could defeat Cell. Goku didn't push Gohan into it.

He definitely did. Even Gohan wasn't sure of himself he could it. Goku was the only one that believed in him and the only one of the group that was okay with let him fight.

If Goku could've defeated Cell, he wouldn't have let Gohan take over.

And he did actually...but then the biggest plothole of this franchise happened. Unlike Buu, Cell can only regenerate himself as long as the core in his head is not destroyed.
Goku's kamehameha destroyed his upper part. No head - No core - No regeneration - Cell is dead - Goku won.

[Michsi]

That. Doesnt. Mean. He. Asked. Him.

I know it all turned out right but its still a terrible thing he did.

I'm not pointing out that it all turned out well, I'm saying that Gohan was the only one who could defeat Cell. Goku didn't thrust this responsibility on Gohan at all. Gohan's power put him in that position. Goku didn't do anything terrible because he didn't do anything. Eventually it was going to come down to Gohan whether Goku liked it or not.

Why does it matter whether Gohan was asked? Should it matter given that Gohan was the only one who could win? He could've been nicer and asked or better yet told him his plan, but bottom line, Goku didn't force Gohan to fight Cell. Gohan was forced to fight Cell out of unfortunate circumstances - even at such a young age, he had incredible power. Had Goku been strong enough to defeat Cell, there's no way he would've put that responsibility on Gohan.

When Piccolo took Gohan to train he more than acknowledged the shitty situation he was putting the kid in., but that he had to suck it up and accept it "can't become a scholar if there's no planet to be a scholar on/ wanna blame someone, curse your own fate" etc. etc.

You see none of that with Goku. He is nonchalant, flippant and so sure of himself that it doesn't even occur to him things might not go as planned. The fact that he ended up being right about Gohan having the power to stop Cell is irrelevant when discussing Goku as a character. I've used this analogy before, but if you push someone off a cliff without warning them, even if there was safety net right below and no one gets hurt, that doesn't make them less of an ass. His confidence crumbling and looking on in horror and then demanding a senzu bean so he can go and help Gohan just shows that he realized himself that he was wrong.

[Forte224]

That. Doesnt. Mean. He. Asked. Him.

I know it all turned out right but its still a terrible thing he did.

I'm not pointing out that it all turned out well, I'm saying that Gohan was the only one who could defeat Cell. Goku didn't thrust this responsibility on Gohan at all. Gohan's power put him in that position. Goku didn't do anything terrible because he didn't do anything. Eventually it was going to come down to Gohan whether Goku liked it or not.

Why does it matter whether Gohan was asked? Should it matter given that Gohan was the only one who could win? He could've been nicer and asked or better yet told him his plan, but bottom line, Goku didn't force Gohan to fight Cell. Gohan was forced to fight Cell out of unfortunate circumstances - even at such a young age, he had incredible power. Had Goku been strong enough to defeat Cell, there's no way he would've put that responsibility on Gohan.

When Piccolo took Gohan to train he more than acknowledged the shitty situation he was putting the kid in., but that he had to suck it up and accept it "can't become a scholar if there's no planet to be a scholar on/ wanna blame someone, curse your own fate" etc. etc.

You see none of that with Goku. He is nonchalant, flippant and so sure of himself that it doesn't even occur to him things might not go as planned. The fact that he ended up being right about Gohan having the power to stop Cell is irrelevant when discussing Goku as a character. I've used this analogy before, but if you push someone off a cliff without warning them, even if there was safety net right below and no one gets hurt, that doesn't make them less of an ass. His confidence crumbling and looking on in horror and then demanding a senzu bean so he can go and help Gohan just shows that he realized himself that he was wrong.

Except he didn't "push Gohan off of a cliff" randomly, he didn't kick him in front of one of Cell's attacks or something. There was a break period, and he told Gohan the situation and that he was the strongest fighter there. This made sense to Gohan, since earlier he had no idea why everyone was so impressed with the Goku vs Cell fight. Now he knew it's because he was on a whole new level. He even thought Goku was just warming up, not that he was at full power.

Combine this with Gohan figuring out Goku's plan, illustrated when he told Cell what it was and I really have never seen the issues here.

[Michsi]

Except he didn't "push Gohan off of a cliff" randomly, he didn't kick him in front of one of Cell's attacks or something. There was a break period, and he told Gohan the situation and that he was the strongest fighter there. This made sense to Gohan, since earlier he had no idea why everyone was so impressed with the Goku vs Cell fight. Now he knew it's because he was on a whole new level. He even thought Goku was just warming up, not that he was at full power.

Combine this with Gohan figuring out Goku's plan, illustrated when he told Cell what it was and I really have never seen the issues here.

The issue has been portrayed as clearly as it could be in the series and it's practically spelled out to us : "does his life mean less to you than a fair fight?"
Why do people forget that on top of sending him out to fight Cell without warning him more than 5 minutes in advance, he also gives the murderous megalomaniac a senzu bean.

I know that what Goku does is out of a warped sense of paternal pride, and in a way, it was supposed to have been meant gift to Gohan . This is what he loves and he wants to share it with his son. But as Piccolo all but yells in his face, he doesn't love the fight like he does. Problem people have here is that, as his actual father, Goku should've already known that.

[Forte224]

Except he didn't "push Gohan off of a cliff" randomly, he didn't kick him in front of one of Cell's attacks or something. There was a break period, and he told Gohan the situation and that he was the strongest fighter there. This made sense to Gohan, since earlier he had no idea why everyone was so impressed with the Goku vs Cell fight. Now he knew it's because he was on a whole new level. He even thought Goku was just warming up, not that he was at full power.

Combine this with Gohan figuring out Goku's plan, illustrated when he told Cell what it was and I really have never seen the issues here.

The issue has been portrayed as clearly as it could be in the series and it's practically spelled out to us : "does his life mean less to you than a fair fight?"
Why do people forget that on top of sending him out to fight Cell without warning him more than 5 minutes in advance, he also gives the murderous megalomaniac a senzu bean.

I know that what Goku does is out of a warped sense of paternal pride, and in a way, it was supposed to have been meant gift to Gohan . This is what he loves and he wants to share it with his son. But as Piccolo all but yells in his face, he doesn't love the fight like he does. Problem people have here is that, as his actual father, Goku should've already known that.

He wouldn't have been Goku if he let Gohan fight a weakned Cell. Clearly Gohan's life meant more to him than a fair fight. When he *thought* he was wrong, he was going to go right it.

And it's not like Gohan was particularly upset about the situation. Even after the senzu he was bold enough to tell Cell to quit the fight so he wouldn't die to Gohan's potential rage power up. He wasn't trying to bluff Cell out either, he meant it. He was just as confident as Goku was and if he wasn't he could've bowed out at any time, including right after the senzu.

[Michsi]

Except he didn't "push Gohan off of a cliff" randomly, he didn't kick him in front of one of Cell's attacks or something. There was a break period, and he told Gohan the situation and that he was the strongest fighter there. This made sense to Gohan, since earlier he had no idea why everyone was so impressed with the Goku vs Cell fight. Now he knew it's because he was on a whole new level. He even thought Goku was just warming up, not that he was at full power.

Combine this with Gohan figuring out Goku's plan, illustrated when he told Cell what it was and I really have never seen the issues here.

The issue has been portrayed as clearly as it could be in the series and it's practically spelled out to us : "does his life mean less to you than a fair fight?"
Why do people forget that on top of sending him out to fight Cell without warning him more than 5 minutes in advance, he also gives the murderous megalomaniac a senzu bean.

I know that what Goku does is out of a warped sense of paternal pride, and in a way, it was supposed to have been meant gift to Gohan . This is what he loves and he wants to share it with his son. But as Piccolo all but yells in his face, he doesn't love the fight like he does. Problem people have here is that, as his actual father, Goku should've already known that.

He wouldn't have been Goku if he let Gohan fight a weakned Cell. Clearly Gohan's life meant more to him than a fair fight. When he *thought* he was wrong, he was going to go right it.

Yeah, after getting an earful. Lets not forget what it took for Gohan to finally snap: someone dying. I think it's safe to say that Goku was wrong, assuming he never intended for anyone to get tortured or killed for Gohan to unleash his hidden power.

[WittyUsername]

Dragon Ball doesn’t have a very good fan base.

[Forte224]

I suppose so, but what would you have suggested in that situation? For Goku to completely go against his character and let Gohan beat up on a weakened fighter? For Gohan to just not fight despite being the strongest? For all of them to gang up on Cell, therefore breaking the rules and him probably just obliterating the planet?

I'm not saying Goku is a perfect person, he's very flawed and non-heroic and that's what makes him interesting. But there really is no other way around things outside of weakening Goku's character or writing the scenario completely different.