Unpopular DB opinions

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baneofdemon22
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by baneofdemon22 » Thu May 08, 2014 9:44 pm

FortuneSSJ wrote:Thanks to the last events, a lot of people are saying Toriyama should just retire.
So its my unpopular opinion to say he shouldn't.
I agree with you. I am really looking forward to new material from him. If I don't like it, I'll just ignore it. I loved the Extended Version of Battle of Gods and am excited for a new movie!

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by TKA » Thu May 08, 2014 9:53 pm

Gonna drop a few here:

I think the dub is a better work than the sub.

Vegeta's death scene against Buu was better with Faulconer music than the Japanese version and its lack of music.

King Vegeta is an infinitely more interesting character from the tidbits of info we get on him than Bardock is with the overwhelming tsunami of info we get on him.

I like Buu and his arc.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Hades » Thu May 08, 2014 10:08 pm

ABED wrote:
Hades wrote:
ABED wrote:But good luck getting the chip on or in Vegeta.
Again, that's pure speculation, and second, if they have those capabilities, it would make sense that Bulma built the ship with something to defend against those things.
Lastly, if you have the power to destroy a planet, I hardly think building that sort of tech is much of a care for a being as powerful Freeza.
Plenty of opportunities when he's in the healing tank (hell, it would be standard for all troops to have such wetware.)

I doubt Bulma put in any defensive weaponry or shielding to protect the ship from space-based weaponry, considering that a couple of pew-pew blasters torched it

By that logic, the US should have nuked Vietnam.
We're talking about fictional worlds, and I fail to see how you made the parallel to Vietnam.

Again, we're talking about what ifs. I fail to see how yours is so much better. Freeza cares enough to put up satellite weapons but it's ridiculous that Bulma might think of defensive weaponry?
I was pointing out the fallacious logic of "freeza shouldn't worry about putting up orbital defences because he can destroy planets". For all he knew, Cooler or even a rival power could have come for the DBs

Anyway, Preparing for attack from Namek isn't a scenario that Bulma would expect to encounter. She assumes that everything will be orderly, they enter Namek orbit, killsats detect them, lasers cut holes in their life support or other vital systems, they burn up in the Atmosphere or suffer explosive decompression. Ditto for Vegeta.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by ABED » Thu May 08, 2014 11:33 pm

What fallacy? Freeza doesn't feel like he has anything to worry given his vast power, so why should he care enough to build that sort of weapon. There was no stronger power in the universe as far as Freeza knew, and even if Coola existed in canon DB universe, destroying his ship wouldn't do anything, Coola can survive in space.

Again, you came up with a purely hypothetical example, but somehow, mine doesn't make any sense? It's absolutely ridiculous to make a hypothetical example and dismiss the idea that someone else couldn't have another purely hypothetical example. I'm finding it difficult to come up with the right words. My point is you give this purely hypothetical idea of Freeza using satellite weapons, but somehow, it's ridiculous to think that Bulma could hypothetically install counter weapons.

And I still don't see your point about Vietnam.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Hades » Fri May 09, 2014 5:32 am

ABED wrote:What fallacy? Freeza doesn't feel like he has anything to worry given his vast power, so why should he care enough to build that sort of weapon. There was no stronger power in the universe as far as Freeza knew, and even if Coola existed in canon DB universe, destroying his ship wouldn't do anything, Coola can survive in space.

Again, you came up with a purely hypothetical example, but somehow, mine doesn't make any sense? It's absolutely ridiculous to make a hypothetical example and dismiss the idea that someone else couldn't have another purely hypothetical example. I'm finding it difficult to come up with the right words. My point is you give this purely hypothetical idea of Freeza using satellite weapons, but somehow, it's ridiculous to think that Bulma could hypothetically install counter weapons.

And I still don't see your point about Vietnam.
My point was that if Freeza didn't need orbital weapons systems to secure Namek from outside intereference (best to nip a problem in the bud like Vegeta or someone else interfering with my plans) because of his sheer power, then the USA should have cut to the chase and dropped a nuke on Hanoi because of their sheer power (Why send hundreds of thousands of troops if you can just drop a bomb, and not bother with the Russians or Chinese sending supplies to N. Vietnam?)

Anyway, encountering hostile powers isn't something Bulma anticipates within her reasoning (otherwise her ship would not have been torched by a couple of blasters).
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Scarz wrote:Like using a flamethrower to kill an ant.
Hey, a lv.100 Charizard vs a wild lv.4 Caterpie. It happens.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by ABED » Fri May 09, 2014 8:32 am

Not my point, I was saying the threat of sheer power was more than enough to either deter people or what he was capable of was worse than any satellite weapon, so it wasn't worth his time when he could take care of it himself or send a minion.
Anyway, encountering hostile powers isn't something Bulma anticipates within her reasoning (otherwise her ship would not have been torched by a couple of blasters).
In our hypothetical examples, yes she does.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Hades » Fri May 09, 2014 8:51 am

ABED wrote:Not my point, I was saying the threat of sheer power was more than enough to either deter people or what he was capable of was worse than any satellite weapon, so it wasn't worth his time when he could take care of it himself or send a minion.
Anyway, encountering hostile powers isn't something Bulma anticipates within her reasoning (otherwise her ship would not have been torched by a couple of blasters).
In our hypothetical examples, yes she does.
He gathered data from Vegeta's scouter that there were DBs on Namek and knew that Vegeta would be coming there next. It's more like an insurance policy than anything else. Oh and satellites would have been useful for tracking Vegeta or other Namekians (we already can use satellites to read number plates or find a cup in a field)

I think the hypothetical killsats orbiting Namek would have cleaved through her ship long before she reached the solar system (if what the blasters are anything to go by). And refitting the ship for weapons and shielding means a few more weeks of refits, potentially allowing Freeza to win.
TrunksTrevelyan0064 wrote:
Scarz wrote:Like using a flamethrower to kill an ant.
Hey, a lv.100 Charizard vs a wild lv.4 Caterpie. It happens.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by ABED » Fri May 09, 2014 11:00 am

I doubt Vegeta would ever allow himself to have a tracker inside him.
I think the hypothetical killsats orbiting Namek would have cleaved through her ship long before she reached the solar system (if what the blasters are anything to go by). And refitting the ship for weapons and shielding means a few more weeks of refits, potentially allowing Freeza to win.
This is all ridiculously hypothetical. Freeza still wouldn't have won, the Grand Elder probably would've died before he got a chance to use them.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Hades » Fri May 09, 2014 11:06 am

ABED wrote:I doubt Vegeta would ever allow himself to have a tracker inside him.
I think the hypothetical killsats orbiting Namek would have cleaved through her ship long before she reached the solar system (if what the blasters are anything to go by). And refitting the ship for weapons and shielding means a few more weeks of refits, potentially allowing Freeza to win.
This is all ridiculously hypothetical. Freeza still wouldn't have won, the Grand Elder probably would've died before he got a chance to use them.
Who said anything about Vegeta wanting the tracker? All Freeza has to do is to slip a series of blood-cell sized chips into his circulation or have them "leech" onto vital organs while he's in the healing tank, and BAM! He can find Vegeta anywhere.
TrunksTrevelyan0064 wrote:
Scarz wrote:Like using a flamethrower to kill an ant.
Hey, a lv.100 Charizard vs a wild lv.4 Caterpie. It happens.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by ABED » Fri May 09, 2014 11:12 am

Hades wrote:
ABED wrote:I doubt Vegeta would ever allow himself to have a tracker inside him.
I think the hypothetical killsats orbiting Namek would have cleaved through her ship long before she reached the solar system (if what the blasters are anything to go by). And refitting the ship for weapons and shielding means a few more weeks of refits, potentially allowing Freeza to win.
This is all ridiculously hypothetical. Freeza still wouldn't have won, the Grand Elder probably would've died before he got a chance to use them.
Who said anything about Vegeta wanting the tracker? All Freeza has to do is to slip a series of blood-cell sized chips into his circulation or have them "leech" onto vital organs while he's in the healing tank, and BAM! He can find Vegeta anywhere.
It's like you want DB to be a completely different series. Freeza doesn't fear Vegeta, so he doesn't feel like he needs the insurance. The only point I think you had was that Freeza's ship should've had extra scouters.

Also, the series was made in late 80s, early 90s, how would Toriyama have thought of something like those chips?
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Hades » Fri May 09, 2014 11:23 am

ABED wrote:
Hades wrote:Who said anything about Vegeta wanting the tracker? All Freeza has to do is to slip a series of blood-cell sized chips into his circulation or have them "leech" onto vital organs while he's in the healing tank, and BAM! He can find Vegeta anywhere.
It's like you want DB to be a completely different series. Freeza doesn't fear Vegeta, so he doesn't feel like he needs the insurance. The only point I think you had was that Freeza's ship should've had extra scouters.

Also, the series was made in late 80s, early 90s, how would Toriyama have thought of something like those chips?
Even in the 80s with ESB, there were larger ships deploying Probes, and Star Trek TNG mentioned the Enterprise deploying similar drones, while GPS was beginning to become a thing. And The Terminator also touched on those sort of concepts
TrunksTrevelyan0064 wrote:
Scarz wrote:Like using a flamethrower to kill an ant.
Hey, a lv.100 Charizard vs a wild lv.4 Caterpie. It happens.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by ABED » Fri May 09, 2014 12:01 pm

Hades wrote:
ABED wrote:
Hades wrote:Who said anything about Vegeta wanting the tracker? All Freeza has to do is to slip a series of blood-cell sized chips into his circulation or have them "leech" onto vital organs while he's in the healing tank, and BAM! He can find Vegeta anywhere.
It's like you want DB to be a completely different series. Freeza doesn't fear Vegeta, so he doesn't feel like he needs the insurance. The only point I think you had was that Freeza's ship should've had extra scouters.

Also, the series was made in late 80s, early 90s, how would Toriyama have thought of something like those chips?
Even in the 80s with ESB, there were larger ships deploying Probes, and Star Trek TNG mentioned the Enterprise deploying similar drones, while GPS was beginning to become a thing. And The Terminator also touched on those sort of concepts
Did Toriyama watch Star Trek, is he a futurist? And Terminator didn't touch on blood cell sized chips. Even if Toriyama had thought of that, he would've had to think of something else so that the heroes could overcome the obstacles.

None of this matters because that isn't the story. Freeza's not dumb for not doing those things, he's insanely powerful, so what did he have to fear from Vegeta? As long as he had a single DB, someone was going to have to eventually try to take it from him. At most, Freeza's fallible.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by TheGmGoken » Sun Jun 01, 2014 10:13 pm

When it doesn't contradict the manga I think Toei handle Dbz better than Toriyama from Cell arc to Eoz.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Kid Buu » Sun Jun 01, 2014 10:19 pm

TheGmGoken wrote:When it doesn't contradict the manga I think Toei handle Dbz better than Toriyama from Cell arc to Eoz.
Agreed, the fights felt more fleshed out.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by TheGmGoken » Sun Jun 01, 2014 10:21 pm

Kid Buu wrote:
TheGmGoken wrote:When it doesn't contradict the manga I think Toei handle Dbz better than Toriyama from Cell arc to Eoz.
Agreed, the fights felt more fleshed out.
I also think plot wise in ways. I love Gohan highschool and majin vegets more in anime

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by JackyBoi99 » Mon Jun 02, 2014 12:34 am

TKA wrote:Gonna drop a few here:

I think the dub is a better work than the sub.

Vegeta's death scene against Buu was better with Faulconer music than the Japanese version and its lack of music.

King Vegeta is an infinitely more interesting character from the tidbits of info we get on him than Bardock is with the overwhelming tsunami of info we get on him.

I like Buu and his arc.
Exactly what makes the dub better than the sub? I'm not mocking, I'm asking a legitimate question.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Lumos » Tue Jun 03, 2014 10:32 am

I have a certain fondness for the Garlic Jr Arc because that's what got me into the series.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Gyt Kaliba » Wed Jun 04, 2014 12:40 pm

Lumos wrote:I have a certain fondness for the Garlic Jr Arc because that's what got me into the series.
Oh wow, I find that a pretty interesting statement myself (and I'm not calling you out on it at all, so hopefully it doesn't come across that way), since in my case, that was the arc that almost put me out of the series. For me, I got interested in the show in the tail end of the Freeza fight, then Garlic Jr. kind of had me drifting before ads for Freeza's return in the Trunks material really hooked me in forever. It's just funny how an arc can pull in or push people out differently heh. :P
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Kid Buu » Tue Jun 10, 2014 5:03 am

Piccolo's fight with Seventeen is boring because there doesn't seem to be any progression and it was anticlimactic; Vegeta's fight with Eighteen was much more entertaining.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Lumos » Tue Jun 10, 2014 7:55 am

Gyt Kaliba wrote:
Lumos wrote:I have a certain fondness for the Garlic Jr Arc because that's what got me into the series.
Oh wow, I find that a pretty interesting statement myself (and I'm not calling you out on it at all, so hopefully it doesn't come across that way), since in my case, that was the arc that almost put me out of the series. For me, I got interested in the show in the tail end of the Freeza fight, then Garlic Jr. kind of had me drifting before ads for Freeza's return in the Trunks material really hooked me in forever. It's just funny how an arc can pull in or push people out differently heh. :P
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I can't remember exactly what drew me to the arc in the first place - I was but a child when I started watching - but I seem to recall off the top of my head that the concept always intrigued me. There was something very creepy about the fact that the 'entire cast' turned on one another and also the idea that the Lookout - a safe haven up to this point - was suddenly the most foreboding place in the world. Whilst I do agree that the arc lost a lot of power towards the end - much like Garlic Jr himself - I liked for the duration how it was up to one little boy to save the day cause like when was that ever gonna happen again? :wink:

On a side note, I also have a soft spot for Ultimate Battle 22 because that was the first DBZ Game that I played though in fairness I think I'd hate it now.
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