Unpopular DB opinions

[Sailor Haumea]

I mean, before 1995, there was the Harmony Gold dub, and despite the fact it didn't do well I'd still argue Dragon Ball would have eventually came to the US and been successful with another company seen as how every other successful anime franchise from Japan got licenced, not to mention with the exception of Pokémon this series is probably the biggest Japanese entertainment brand period.

That is what I mean, that didn't do well and so Toei probably would have been like nah we tried once move over, wasn't it Fukunaga's persistence that got the U.S the Z series to have a second crack? But still at the end of the day it doesn't matter, the past is the past, things have been course corrected now so it really doesn't matter.

The thing is, it wasn't TOEI that tried and failed with Harmony Gold, it was whoever that dub's broadcast partners were, that's who it comes down to at the end of the day. The fact episodes of that dub are next to impossible to come by (other than a clip or two) says it all. The dub failed because of its marketing or lack thereof, very few people in the US knew what anime was, much less Dragon Ball, the idea of a foreign cartoon dubbed into English and what to expect from it was alien to them, and thusly no one was given any incentive to watch it. It took another dubbing company and a huge marketing push to bring Dragon Ball to the level of international stardom we know today. Funimation achieved that, but so could another company, if they pitched a flawless promotional campaign to TOEI I think they would have been willing to give the series another chance, it wouldn't be the first time. I'm sure Fukunaga's contacts helped, but I'm not willing to rule out the chance it couldn't have worked out any other way. After all TOEI could have easily said alternate English dubs in the 2010s weren't worth the effort after the debacle that was the still unreleased Ocean dub of Kai, but then Bang Zoom were given the rights to produce a dub of Super, likely because they realized if the right strategy was in place company B could succeed where company A failed, as could have easily been the case with another company picking up the rights after Harmony Gold.

Stop right there.

Anime existed beyond kid's television. You could walk into a Blockbuster and find anime. Toonami was not the beginning of anime. Astro Boy was dubbed (I think?). Doraemon was dubbed. Ranma had fansubs. Fist of the North Star had fansubs. The Jojo OVAs had fansubs.

Anime was definitely a thing before dubs. Just because it wasn't on children's television doesn't mean no one heard about it, and anime existed that wasn't shonen crap or children's dreck like Pokémon. I'm pretty sure Gundam was a thing in the US in the 80s and early 90s.

[Cure Dragon 255]

Doraemon was never dubbed before the 2010's. And I still wish it had never been...

[floofychan333]

The dub is accurate... have you not heard of Kai? The past is irrelevant now, it is the past. In fact if it wasn't for Fukunaga and his contacts DB might never have come out in English.

A) The original Z dub has completely and irrevocably "tainted" the franchise in the U.S. Holdovers of old arguments, misperceptions, and mistranslations STILL persist to this day, and likely always will. Many if not most of the hardest of hardcore and most vocal of U.S. DBZ fans are still very often old school Toonami-era fans who cannot let go of the original Cartoon Network broadcasts, and quirks that haven't been relevant in any home release or redub of the series still carry over today.

And if nothing else, Power Level debates and arguments are probably one of the single most lasting bits of "damage" that the old dub has left on the series and its fanbase, probably forever.

B) PLENTY of other licensing companies at that time would have given their first born child's severed head to have licensed DB/Z in the U.S. back in the early to mid 90s. Pioneer likely would've been the ones to do it if Fukanaga hadn't swept in with a nobody company and used nepotism to steal it.

DBZ sort of opened the floodgates for anime in America. If Toei never gave FUNi the rights, the anime landscape would look very differently.

It opened the floodgates for anime aimed at middle school children becoming the dominant force. The anime landscape WOULD'VE looked different sure: the U.S. fanbase might still be more centered on titles not aimed primarily at 8 year old kids.

All of these kinds of posts operate under the mistaken belief that all of anime in the United States, especially and particularly back in the 1990s was centered squarely around 1) what aired on mainstream children's TV and B) titles that were primarily aimed at children in general. Both of which are exceedingly inaccurate. People have always consumed media in a variety of ways, both before and after the advent of streaming and the internet, that don't revolve around TV. TV was not the center of anime distribution before the 2000s, and Shonen was not the fixture of all things anime in the U.S. within that timeframe.

This being a generation of fandom here that was raised and grew up largely walled off from non-children's media and non-TV focused media is why these discussions always have a skewed focus on Shonen airing on kids cartoon blocks in the U.S., when that was just the tiniest sliver of anime's exposure in the U.S. prior to FUNimation and Toonami at the turn of the millennium.

I love you Mr Kunzait, but this is kind of false. The fandom is most definitely not focused on kids stuff anymore. In fact kids anime is almost DEAD in the USA and abroad, sure it thrives in Japan, but kids nets dont want anime for kids anymore. But you are most certainly right about everything else. And the Cult of the "We need to dumb down Kids anime even further" that persists due to this day due to the success of Funimation's DBZ IS FUCKING INFURIATING.

Dead in the USA? At least you guys have it on your networks and your kids don't have to pay for streaming services or watch the shows online.

Nonetheless, as inaccurate as the dub was, it's kind of necessary and it has improved over time. Most of us wouldn't be posting on this forum if not for original exposure to the dub (not to say fansub era people don't exist) so we needed DB to come to the West in any form that would make it successful. Fansub tapes were hard to find from what I've heard and weren't widely available, plus the internet didn't really come into common use until the late 90s and early 2000s so there would be much less connection among fans if there had never been a dub because it would have been harder for the fans to reach each other in the 80s and 90s.

[Cure Dragon 255]

Didnt you hear what I just said there IS NO kids network airing anime anymore. If they want anime they have to go to the "Streaming Services" that every other country has to turn to.

Also I'm not from the USA. Dont talk about "You".

...Ironically in Latin America Super IS airing on Cartoon Network along with DBZKai The Final Chapters.

[floofychan333]

Didnt you hear what I just said there IS NO kids network airing anime anymore. If they want anime they have to go to the "Streaming Services" that every other country has to turn to.

Also I'm not from the USA. Dont talk about "You".

...Ironically in Latin America Super IS airing on Cartoon Network along with DBZKai The Final Chapters.

Dude, you just said it's on CN right there and I think it's a kid's network. I'm sorry if I thought you were American but I assume everyone here is who isn't specified.

[Cure Dragon 255]

Ok I'm sorry I was too harsh. I'm sorry. I hope you dont think I'm a jerk now.

But CN USA in Particular has zero anime. Sure I did forget Disney XD USA which has Pokemon and Beyblade along with Yokai Watch.

[Tian]

I think Stephanie Nadolny was good as Teen Gohan but terrible as Kid Gohan. Colleen Clinkenbeard suited better than Nadolny in the latter.

[theoriginalbilis]

Before the dub the U.S Dragon Ball fandom was practically nonexistent.

Honestly it feels like some of you are using your hatred of the dub to not give Funi any credit for their role in popularizing DBZ in America.

It's true that the English version of DB/DBZ did increase the popularity of the franchise over here to a large degree.

But VHS fansubs and tape-trading were a big thing in 90's anime culture. And Dragon Ball stuff was very very popular and sought after by anime fans, collectors, and traders for years before the dub came out. Hell, later episodes and movies were still being fansubbed and distributed even as the 52 eps of the FUNi/Saban run were airing.

TL;DR: Dragon Ball was already popular and known amongst English-speaking anime fans before the dub aired. The dub was successful in exposing the franchise to a wider audience (kids/general cartoon audiences).

[Noah]

Steve Blum as Vegeta, Frieza or Piccolo would have been amazing. Anyway, while that would have been amazing, I'm glad Funimation has improved with Kai.

I disagree, I think Orlando Bloom would fit more to Vegeta so as Jack Black as Yajirobe.

Well, considering that the new warriors of the 11 universes are just variations of earthling animals, like wolves, foxes and boars, that's not bad.

And don't forget about robots, it's quite a shame that the staff don't seem to have much creativity to do more humanoids like these:

[spoiler][/spoiler]

[8000 Saiyan]

Steve Blum as Vegeta, Frieza or Piccolo would have been amazing. Anyway, while that would have been amazing, I'm glad Funimation has improved with Kai.

I disagree, I think Orlando Bloom would fit more to Vegeta so as Jack Black as Yajirobe.

You have to be kidding me.

[Hellspawn28]

Steve Blum as Vegeta, Frieza or Piccolo would have been amazing. Anyway, while that would have been amazing, I'm glad Funimation has improved with Kai.

I disagree, I think Orlando Bloom would fit more to Vegeta so as Jack Black as Yajirobe.

I remember when Orlando Bloom was rumor to play Tenshinhan and Jack Black as Yajirobe during the early-mid 2000's. Orlando Bloom as Tenshinhan would have random to see happen.

[Tian]

Steve Blum as Vegeta, Frieza or Piccolo would have been amazing. Anyway, while that would have been amazing, I'm glad Funimation has improved with Kai.

I disagree, I think Orlando Bloom would fit more to Vegeta so as Jack Black as Yajirobe.

I remember when Orlando Bloom was rumor to play Tenshinhan and Jack Black as Yajirobe during the early-mid 2000's. Orlando Bloom as Tenshinhan would have random to see happen.

If I recall correctly, that's from when Uwe Boll was interviewed about Shenmue's movie. Uwe said if Shenmue was a success, he would direct a Dragon Ball Z movie with Orlando Bloom as Tenshinhan and Robin Shou as Goku.

[Hellspawn28]

I never heard that. I remember the DBZ live action movie rumors after it was announced in 2002. From 2002-2006, there was a big wave of rumors of actors and directors. I remember the rumors of the castings on the Internet where:

Hugh Jack, Brendan Fraser or Tom Welling (Smallville) as Goku
Ray Park (Best known as Darth Maul from Star Wars Episode I) or Jet Li as Vegeta
Bill Goldberg as Nappa
Jason Bateman as Raditz
Michael Jai White (Spawn and Black Dynamite) or Christopher Judge (Stargate SG-1) as Piccolo
Verne Troyer (Mini Me from Austin Powers) as Krillin
Orlando Bloom as Tenshinhan
Robin Shou (Mortal Kombat) as Yamcha
Eliza Dushku (True Calling), Lucy Liu or Angelina Jolie as Chi Chi
Jessica Alba as Bluma
Ian McKellen as Kami
Pat Morita or Mako as Master Roshi (This was before Pat Morita and Mako died)
Jack Black as Yajirobe

[Gog]

Design wise I'd say that Saiyans are the most uninteresting species of aliens Dragon Ball has to offer. They're just humans with tails, and even that small, slight, subtle design difference is quickly dropped.

That's an unpopular opinion? I always thought it was a 'No shit!' type of thing.

Well, considering that the new warriors of the 11 universes are just variations of earthling animals, like wolves, foxes and boars, that's not bad.

Many of the warriors aren't variations of animals, Toppo, Jiren, The Preecho, and some of the one shot fodder aren't. Calling them all variations is an exaggeration. Also, I'd say that being a variation of an animal is still better than just being a human in terms of design.

[8000 Saiyan]

I disagree, I think Orlando Bloom would fit more to Vegeta so as Jack Black as Yajirobe.

I remember when Orlando Bloom was rumor to play Tenshinhan and Jack Black as Yajirobe during the early-mid 2000's. Orlando Bloom as Tenshinhan would have random to see happen.

If I recall correctly, that's from when Uwe Boll was interviewed about Shenmue's movie. Uwe said if Shenmue was a success, he would direct a Dragon Ball Z movie with Orlando Bloom as Tenshinhan and Robin Shou as Goku.

Thank God that never happened. Boll is a terrible director and Bloom can't act to save his life.

[Onikage725]

Didnt you hear what I just said there IS NO kids network airing anime anymore. If they want anime they have to go to the "Streaming Services" that every other country has to turn to.

That isn't quite true in the US. I can think if three off the tip of my head, at least in the US. It isn't even close to as prominent as the late 90's-early 00's, but it isn't GONE.

And even the streaming sites- streaming is a huge initiatve. Networks are pulling from the big 2 left and right to push their own services. People aren't sitting around on a schedule in front of their boxes, and services still select programming based on demographics and performance (my recommended anime list is very different on Netflix from my son's "Netflix Kids" version).

This may not be as apparent from within the fandom, but talk to people with a more mainstream focus. The fact is, shounen still outsells everything else. And that is what is pushed. It isn't ALL that is, but it is the most visible. I seriously can't be the only one who has to have the "anime is a medium, not a genre" conversation with people who assume anime specifically means, across the board, super heroes with auras (and anything that isn't that, they think is the fan-service type stuff). Honestly, the mainstream hypocrisy is annoying. Try recommending Platinum End to someone who insists anime/manga is annoying kiddie crap, as they pick up an issue of the Spiderman Clone Conspiracy and plan to buy advance tickets to Thor Ragnarok, while eagerly awaiting the season premiere of The Flash.

[Hellspawn28]

The fact is, shounen still outsells everything else. And that is what is pushed.

He is right since most of the best selling anime and manga in the last decade are Shonen. Look at the best seller list from New York Times

https://www.nytimes.com/books/best-sell ... /15/manga/

Expect for Tomie (How something from Junji Ito is doing well in today's fandom is a huge surprise to me), One Punch Man (Which is more Shonen though) and Tokyo Ghoul (I don't get the hype behind this series), the best selling manga of Shonen.

[Cure Dragon 255]

Didnt you hear what I just said there IS NO kids network airing anime anymore. If they want anime they have to go to the "Streaming Services" that every other country has to turn to.

That isn't quite true in the US. I can think if three off the tip of my head, at least in the US. It isn't even close to as prominent as the late 90's-early 00's, but it isn't GONE.

And even the streaming sites- streaming is a huge initiatve. Networks are pulling from the big 2 left and right to push their own services. People aren't sitting around on a schedule in front of their boxes, and services still select programming based on demographics and performance (my recommended anime list is very different on Netflix from my son's "Netflix Kids" version).

This may not be as apparent from within the fandom, but talk to people with a more mainstream focus. The fact is, shounen still outsells everything else. And that is what is pushed. It isn't ALL that is, but it is the most visible. I seriously can't be the only one who has to have the "anime is a medium, not a genre" conversation with people who assume anime specifically means, across the board, super heroes with auras (and anything that isn't that, they think is the fan-service type stuff). Honestly, the mainstream hypocrisy is annoying. Try recommending Platinum End to someone who insists anime/manga is annoying kiddie crap, as they pick up an issue of the Spiderman Clone Conspiracy and plan to buy advance tickets to Thor Ragnarok, while eagerly awaiting the season premiere of The Flash.

OMG...YOU HAVE A KID! THAT'S SO CUTE!

Sorry about the all caps but I always loved people's "Kids Stories". They are so cute. I'm glad to hear your experience.

[shadowmaria]

Spoiler:

It was canon before BOG and ResF, and it's still canon to me damnit

[Cure Dragon 255]

What? Just what is canon?