Unpopular DB opinions

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PsionicWarrior
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by PsionicWarrior » Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:40 pm

ekrolo2 wrote:boring ass Namek
Wow I mean I know this is the unpopular opinions thread but... really??

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by ekrolo2 » Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:48 pm

sintzu wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote:Toriyama's thing has its own issues like if how he introduces a concept in one arc, count on him to drop it for the next one and never bring it back. Remember how the only setting besides Earth that we see in the original manga is a boring ass Namek with nothing on it and that's our space adventure for the franchise until GT & Super.
Him not using a certain concept again doesn't make his writing style flawed. If he doesn't have any ideas for something isn't it a good thing that he didn't try to force himself to write something that ends up not living up to what came before it ? if he couldn't top Namek then I think it was a good thing he moved onto something else.
The thing is he didn't top anything with Namek: it's a boring ass planet with nothing on it. There's no interesting culture or architecture on it, it's nothing but a big MMA fighting ring. It's literally one of the most boring fucking planets I've ever seen in fiction, one of the reasons DBZAs mockery of it is so funny is specifically because of this fact.

Here's what I say: if you're gonna half ass something, don't do it at all. Don't do a "Hey guys! We're going to space for an adventure!" then make the setting of the new planet we're arriving on a boring ass load of nothing.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Kanassa » Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:50 pm

PsionicWarrior wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote:boring ass Namek
Wow I mean I know this is the unpopular opinions thread but... really??
Wait, that's an unpopular opinion?
When Super apparently shoves Goku down our throats:

Kanassa wrote:
FoolsGil wrote:I hope Mark is dead. But chances are the dragonballs will bring his stupid ass back. :D
- FoolsGil, Out of Context, 2017

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by PsionicWarrior » Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:51 pm

Kanassa wrote:
PsionicWarrior wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote:boring ass Namek
Wow I mean I know this is the unpopular opinions thread but... really??
Wait, that's an unpopular opinion?
Ok I loved Namek lol

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by ekrolo2 » Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:53 pm

I don't get what's unpopular about this: Namek's a boring planet, it's nothing, it's literally the worst place to go for the big space adventure story. The stuff that happens on Namek is arguably the last good story line Toriyama's ever done but fuck is the setting of it just not good.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by PelicanDynasty » Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:13 pm

ekrolo2 wrote:I don't get what's unpopular about this: Namek's a boring planet, it's nothing, it's literally the worst place to go for the big space adventure story. The stuff that happens on Namek is arguably the last good story line Toriyama's ever done but fuck is the setting of it just not good.
Yeah, Namek is pretty bland. Not that the wastes of Earth are anything stellar, but Namek has no change in setting for like the entire arc.

Its made worse because there is so much travelling around; where (and how far) exactly is the spaceship in relation to Guru in relation to the cave?

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Kanassa » Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:15 pm

ekrolo2 wrote:I don't get what's unpopular about this: Namek's a boring planet, it's nothing, it's literally the worst place to go for the big space adventure story. The stuff that happens on Namek is arguably the last good story line Toriyama's ever done but fuck is the setting of it just not good.
Fake Namek had more appeal, at least there were distinguishable locations.
When Super apparently shoves Goku down our throats:

Kanassa wrote:
FoolsGil wrote:I hope Mark is dead. But chances are the dragonballs will bring his stupid ass back. :D
- FoolsGil, Out of Context, 2017

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by PsionicWarrior » Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:21 pm

I liked Namek because of its atmosphere, it was just another place to have the fights in but besides that I liked the few of Namek lore we got. Also I don't really get what you guys mean when you say nothing happened when there was all the Freeza invasion, Vegeta around, Porunga and all the jazz lol

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by ekrolo2 » Wed Nov 15, 2017 6:47 pm

PsionicWarrior wrote:I liked Namek because of its atmosphere, it was just another place to have the fights in but besides that I liked the few of Namek lore we got. Also I don't really get what you guys mean when you say nothing happened when there was all the Freeza invasion, Vegeta around, Porunga and all the jazz lol
You don't get what we mean by Namek, we aren't talking about the story, it's the setting of the story, the planet itself that's boring. THIS is the place we go to on the big space adventure? Another boring wasteland that's piss green instead of shit brown like the Earth one's? Really? And we know Toriyama can do better because he designed the GT planets and this is well after he fell off in terms of quality, there's no excuse for Namek itself being such a load of nothing.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by PsionicWarrior » Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:01 pm

Well tbh I prefer Namek the planet way, way more than the GT planets with the enemies being part of it or whatever that wtf stuff was lol
I liked the overall design of Planet Namek, the trees, the moons, the architecture, and even that green.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Kanassa » Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:22 pm

PsionicWarrior wrote:Well tbh I prefer Namek the planet way, way more than the GT planets with the enemies being part of it or whatever that wtf stuff was lol
I liked the overall design of Planet Namek, the trees, the moons, the architecture, and even that green.
The problem with Namek is that it lacks distinguishing features, everything on it looks the same, it's water, rocks and mountains all the way; with once or twice getting a house. It doesn't have any locations that would make an adventure there worth it. Even the first planet in GT had at least three distinguishable locations, it had different components that made up the setting.

We're not commenting on whether it looks pretty or not, just that is rather barebones.
When Super apparently shoves Goku down our throats:

Kanassa wrote:
FoolsGil wrote:I hope Mark is dead. But chances are the dragonballs will bring his stupid ass back. :D
- FoolsGil, Out of Context, 2017

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by PsionicWarrior » Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:38 pm

So if it does not have distinguishable locations it is boring? Ok...

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Kanassa » Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:47 pm

PsionicWarrior wrote:So if it does not have distinguishable locations it is boring? Ok...
When the setting is the one place an entire arc takes place in, with that arc being comprised of a lot of traveling and traversing, you need a sense of location. Especially when you have story moment of tension where characters are racing to get to locations, you can't tell where anyone is in relation to anyone else; so, yes. It does make a setting boring. Aesthetically pleasing isn't all that matters in making a setting interesting.
When Super apparently shoves Goku down our throats:

Kanassa wrote:
FoolsGil wrote:I hope Mark is dead. But chances are the dragonballs will bring his stupid ass back. :D
- FoolsGil, Out of Context, 2017

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by ABED » Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:59 pm

I was thinking more along the lines of Tolkien's insanely detailed world. Instead of conveying a sense of history, it often serves to confuse the story. It's too complex to the point of being convoluted.
you can't tell where anyone is in relation to anyone else; so, yes. It does make a setting boring. Aesthetically pleasing isn't all that matters in making a setting interesting.
It's not that kind of issue. I may not have known exactly where on Namek all the characters were, but the editing and story weren't so confused that I didn't have a vague sense of where the characters were in relation to each other. For instance, we know The Grand Elder's home and Bulma's cave weren't next to each other. Where the characters are in relation to each other are is only an issue when it is confusing to the audience.
where (and how far) exactly is the spaceship in relation to Guru in relation to the cave?
Far. Didn't they say it was several hours away? What you're asking for is little more than minutia. Do we know exactly how far Muten Roshi's house is from the battle ground in the Saiyan arc?
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by rereboy » Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:01 am

ekrolo2 wrote:
sintzu wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote:Toriyama's thing has its own issues like if how he introduces a concept in one arc, count on him to drop it for the next one and never bring it back. Remember how the only setting besides Earth that we see in the original manga is a boring ass Namek with nothing on it and that's our space adventure for the franchise until GT & Super.
Him not using a certain concept again doesn't make his writing style flawed. If he doesn't have any ideas for something isn't it a good thing that he didn't try to force himself to write something that ends up not living up to what came before it ? if he couldn't top Namek then I think it was a good thing he moved onto something else.
The thing is he didn't top anything with Namek: it's a boring ass planet with nothing on it. There's no interesting culture or architecture on it, it's nothing but a big MMA fighting ring. It's literally one of the most boring fucking planets I've ever seen in fiction, one of the reasons DBZAs mockery of it is so funny is specifically because of this fact.

Here's what I say: if you're gonna half ass something, don't do it at all. Don't do a "Hey guys! We're going to space for an adventure!" then make the setting of the new planet we're arriving on a boring ass load of nothing.
It's a planet that was completely devastated with only 1 Namek remained and that has managed to reproduce himself up to 100 individuals. That's just a small village, basically. It's only natural for there to be almost nothing on the planet.

The only thing that Toriyama could have added would be ruins of the old civilization but everything could have been completely destroyed by the cataclysm which actually makes sense since the Nameks of old had technology capable of travelling the stars and the best the new Nameks is levitating doors. Also, he could have added different scenery and perhaps a night time.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by ekrolo2 » Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:21 pm

rereboy wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote:
sintzu wrote:
Him not using a certain concept again doesn't make his writing style flawed. If he doesn't have any ideas for something isn't it a good thing that he didn't try to force himself to write something that ends up not living up to what came before it ? if he couldn't top Namek then I think it was a good thing he moved onto something else.
The thing is he didn't top anything with Namek: it's a boring ass planet with nothing on it. There's no interesting culture or architecture on it, it's nothing but a big MMA fighting ring. It's literally one of the most boring fucking planets I've ever seen in fiction, one of the reasons DBZAs mockery of it is so funny is specifically because of this fact.

Here's what I say: if you're gonna half ass something, don't do it at all. Don't do a "Hey guys! We're going to space for an adventure!" then make the setting of the new planet we're arriving on a boring ass load of nothing.
It's a planet that was completely devastated with only 1 Namek remained and that has managed to reproduce himself up to 100 individuals. That's just a small village, basically. It's only natural for there to be almost nothing on the planet.

The only thing that Toriyama could have added would be ruins of the old civilization but everything could have been completely destroyed by the cataclysm which actually makes sense since the Nameks of old had technology capable of travelling the stars and the best the new Nameks is levitating doors. Also, he could have added different scenery and perhaps a night time.
Or he could have changed the back story so it isn't tailor made to be lazy as fuck design wise. Hell, even seeing what Namek used to look like through flashbacks or some such would make it's current desolation work better. I can't believe I'm saying this, but the Black arc gets this right by showing us what repaired Earth looks like pre Black and when they fight there, you see how X gets to Y. That would at least create some story elements concerning Namek's design choices, as it stands it just reeks of Toriyama being lazy.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by PelicanDynasty » Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:55 pm

ABED wrote:
where (and how far) exactly is the spaceship in relation to Guru in relation to the cave?
Far. Didn't they say it was several hours away? What you're asking for is little more than minutia. Do we know exactly how far Muten Roshi's house is from the battle ground in the Saiyan arc?
No, of course we don’t know the exact distance, but there is a feeling of distance. Roshi’s house is in the middle of the ocean, the battle is somewhere on the mainland (not too far from a big city).

The Namek arc has people racing all over this gigantic planet and it might as well take place within the same square mile because it all looks the same. If Krillin travels some great distance to the Elder, they could at least change the scenery to help illustrate that.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by ABED » Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:59 pm

No, of course we don’t know the exact distance, but there is a feeling of distance. Roshi’s house is in the middle of the ocean, the battle is somewhere on the mainland (not too far from a big city).
There's still a feeling of distance based on the amount of time it took them to get there.
The Namek arc has people racing all over this gigantic planet and it might as well take place within the same square mile because it all looks the same.
Except that there are multiple ways to convey distance. For instance, when Piccolo is flying as fast as he can to get to Gohan and it takes an episode or two, it's a good guess they were a ways away. Same with when Freeza learns he's been duped.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by PsionicWarrior » Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:04 pm

Kanassa wrote: When the setting is the one place an entire arc takes place in, with that arc being comprised of a lot of traveling and traversing, you need a sense of location. Especially when you have story moment of tension where characters are racing to get to locations, you can't tell where anyone is in relation to anyone else; so, yes. It does make a setting boring. Aesthetically pleasing isn't all that matters in making a setting interesting.
But there is a sense of location in Namek, as I understand you would have wanted more diverse areas in... the aesthetics?

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Ripper 30 » Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:08 pm

DragonBallKing wrote:While I feel One Piece surpasses Dragon Ball in several areas like villains and world building, I still feel that Son Goku is a more interesting character than Luffy.
is one Piece the only Long Running Shonens that surpass Dragon Ball?
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