Unpopular DB opinions

[Soppa Saia People]

The Kikuchi, Yamamoto, Sumitomo, Faulconer and Tokunaga scores are all good.

Yamamoto and Tokunaga rule, but the rest ? Nah. Kikuchi fits but it's not very good, outside of a couple tracks. Faulconer is just bland synth rock, it's ok, and Sumitomo is boring as hell.

[Jord]

The "enemy looks like Goku" is a horrible trope and shouldn't even be used to begin with, and to use it with Ginyu, Turtles and Black is just lazy. If you want a character with those abilities, give the design a twist (and changing skin or hair color doesn't count.
This is a trope that's used in a lot of media but could be used much more creatively, like making a twisted looking version of Goku, similar as to how the Turtles did this with Slash:

[JazzMazz]

The "enemy looks like Goku" is a horrible trope and shouldn't even be used to begin with, and to use it with Ginyu, Turtles and Black is just lazy. If you want a character with those abilities, give the design a twist (and changing skin or hair color doesn't count.
This is a trope that's used in a lot of media but could be used much more creatively, like making a twisted looking version of Goku, similar as to how the Turtles did this with Slash:

So uh, something like what DC is doing currently with evil Batmen in Dark Knights metal?

[jeffbr92]

The Kikuchi, Yamamoto, Sumitomo, Faulconer and Tokunaga scores are all good.

I like them too, but I would put as:

5. Faulconer
4. Sumitomo
3. Yamamoto
2. Tokunaga
1. Kikuchi

[Dbzfan94]

Damn, I love Kunzait's posts.

That's not unpopular.

I wasn't expressing an unpopular opinion. I was just stunned at his latest post that I just wanted to say that I love his posts.

Well I guess my unpopular opinion is that I don’t reakly like them.

But on topic, unpopular opinion is that Zamasu should have been sealed away by the Mafuba and Trunks takes care of Black somehow

[jeffbr92]

Well I guess my unpopular opinion is that I don’t really like them.

Why?

But on topic, unpopular opinion is that Zamasu should have been sealed away by the Mafuba and Trunks takes care of Black somehow

I agree, but I would like Goku to defeat Black... It's a shame that a villain like him was not defeated individually.

[Dbzfan94]

Well I guess my unpopular opinion is that I don’t really like them.

Why?

It's not exactly the posts, as he has good points, just the overall holier than thou condescending tone of them soured me completely. The way he insults the intelligence of people is just rude.

[Kunzait_83]

Well I guess my unpopular opinion is that I don’t really like them.

Why?

It's not exactly the posts, as he has good points, just the overall holier than thou condescending tone of them soured me completely. The way he insults the intelligence of people is just rude.

Care to give some examples then? I'm all ears. (And one of them had better not be that one political thread where I DID get rather rude to the guy defending fascist ideology. And that was because... he was defending fascist ideology.)

[Dbzfan94]

Why?

It's not exactly the posts, as he has good points, just the overall holier than thou condescending tone of them soured me completely. The way he insults the intelligence of people is just rude.

Care to give some examples then? I'm all ears.

The Budokai comments, pretty much every time you mention dub or dub fans.

[Kunzait_83]

It's not exactly the posts, as he has good points, just the overall holier than thou condescending tone of them soured me completely. The way he insults the intelligence of people is just rude.

Care to give some examples then? I'm all ears.

The Budokai comments, pretty much every time you mention dub or dub fans.

When it comes to both Budokai and the dub, just about all of my invective is saved for the products THEMSELVES. You note "every time you mention the dub or dub fans" and I find it odd that you include both the dub itself as well as its fans in the "my being rude" category, as if its possible for me to be rude to a piece of recorded audio that isn't a person. The video game and the dub themselves shouldn't factor into the equation at all here: they aren't people, they don't have feelings for me to hurt, they're fair game as individual professional works of media out in the wild for me to say whatever I honestly think of them.

If I think the dub or Budokai suck, then that doesn't mean anything more than I simply think that they suck. If someone happens to like them and the simple fact that I don't bothers them SO much that they take it as a personal insult... then that's ENTIRELY on that person, and I think its beyond ludicrous that I should mince words over something as silly and stupid as a video game or cartoon dub just to spare the feelings of someone (that's ostensibly a grown adult) who's so emotionally under-developed that they can't bear to hear any ill spoken of their favorite piece of children's fluff without feeling personally attacked at their core.

So that leaves the fans themselves (of either Budokai or the dub). I don't remember a single, solitary instance where I've personally insulted or called out the fans themselves in some kind of mean-spirited manner. Closest thing I can think of pertaining to Budokai is when I said that the game's primary appeal to its fans is nostalgia. And I'm not pulling that out of my ass or intending it as a personal insult: I'm quoting from THEM, what actual Budokai fans say about why they like the game so much. It DOES often boil down to personal nostalgia; by their very own admission. And I'm sorry, but that's simply NOT a critically "valid" reason to defend just about anything. Its perfectly fine as a PERSONAL reason to like something: but this is a public forum for discussing these things in both a personal AS WELL AS a more critical light.

And when the best and most consistent thing that fans of Budokai (and the dub as well for that matter; hell the dub WAY INFINITELY more so if we're being honest here) always turn to to justify their high appraisal of the game (or the dub) is their nostalgia rather than tangible gameplay nuance (and I'm leaving aside people like DBZAOTA who at least genuinely try to engage with the game and discussion of it from more of a gameplay angle) then I'm sorry, but that's not a terribly compelling rationale, and I'm gonna point that out (WITHOUT my intending to make it into something PERSONAL with those people: I don't know them from fucking Adam, I could care less about wanting to sneer at them from on high, since I genuinely don't make a point of doing that with anyone else I meet or know).

If I at some point called a dub or Budokai fan a name or personally attacked them viciously over something as silly and stupid as what they think of a game or a cartoon dub, then please by all means quote it to me. If I did say something like that, then I'll sincerely apologize for it and own up to me being a shitty asshole right here on the spot.

But if this is because I cite the fact that nostalgia is often too heavily leaned on as a crutch of an excuse by fans for defending something I (and others) find to be substandard: then I'm sorry, but that's both NOT me being rude to anyone, and moreover its an unavoidable fact of reality concerning more than half of the conversations we have around here (a generous lowball of an estimate). "I like this because I was 9 when I first saw/played it" is a perfectly fine thing to say in a personal/anecdotal context: not so much when the nature of the discussion is examining it from a more critical eye. And oftentimes, I don't think a lot of people here understand the difference between the two, and I base that soundly around the MANY COUNTLESS threads I've read and posted in around here for the past decade and change.

I don't think myself "holier than thou" for pointing that out: I'm simply trying to puncture my way through a lot of the emotional baggage that many people here often get themselves so densely wrapped up in when trying to assess (or in some cases, avoid assessing) why it is that they value something or hold it in high regard. I think that over-fixation on nostalgia is one of the single most unhealthy and intellectually toxic aspects of this community as a whole, as it impairs and stifles critical thinking, judgement, self-reflection, and personal growth.

I don't get any enjoyment or personal satisfaction from "talking down" to someone: which is why I make it a point to try and NOT to "talk down" to ANYONE. I just put things in as straightforward (even blunt) a manner as possible, because I find the direct approach the most effective in getting one's point across. What often ends up happening is, people who are emotionally over-reactionary will interpret someone simply stating something of a VERY starkly opposing and negative viewpoint towards a personal sacred cow of theirs as therefore an attack against THEM as a person (sometimes this is because some people have their very identities wrapped up in artifice and media that they liked as kids).

Me saying that "I think this video game/dub is bad, and I think too much of its fanbase overall tends to over-justify its weaknesses due to a self-admitted nostalgia bias" DOESN'T mean "I think you, person who likes this game/dub, is a fucking moron who should feel bad for liking this." That is a GIGANTIC mental gymnastic of a leap to make; and yet people around here (and on plenty of other online communities) do it all the damn time, and they do it, very likely, due to emotional immaturity: they cannot separate themselves personally, cannot separate the very CORE of their identity, from some random movie or TV show or comic book or video game or whatever that they liked when they were only 5 years old or whenever.

I don't say that to attack them: I'm just calling the situation for what I see it to be, because there is literally NO other possible explanation for it that I can conceivably think of. Its the only way that someone can possibly parse a harsh criticism of a video game or TV show as a personal slight on them as a person.

Having one's identity intrinsically tied to an inanimate piece of fiction (made for children no less, not like that distinction even matters: it'd be just as bad if it were for adults) is grossly unhealthy and among WAY worse potential issues it could signal towards, it at a bare minimum stifles any and all fruitful critical discussion about the piece of fiction in question: because now we all have to walk on eggshells and hope that nobody ever says something that's TOO out of bounds about it, because that might set someone off. Or "trigger" them as the kids like to say these days.

I go out of my way to be as respectful to people here as I can (again, my one unfortunate episode in that feminism thread notwithstanding, and I take full responsibility for that one). And I do that because that's how I would (and do) conduct myself almost ANYWHERE else. And the idea that I'd think myself "holier than thou" over something as preposterously silly and inconsequential as Dragon Ball of all things... if I ever got to a point in life where my priorities for what to feel smug about reached such a pathetic all time low as a 30 year old Japanese children's martial arts crazy-fest, I'd turn myself over to the nearest psych ward for a thorough evaluation.

Bottom line: when it comes to what I think about an inanimate piece of media or any work of creativity, I don't mince words, no matter who's sacred cow it happens to be. I don't wish to hurt anyone, nor will I ever make an attempt to (especially not over something THIS trivial): but if the simple act of me talking about a given work is enough to actually hurt someone, then that doesn't speak to me or how I conduct myself, but rather to the sensitivity of the person in question.

And as for the fanbase itself and what I say about it: I speak in VERY broad generalities about ALL of the DB fanbase at large. And honestly, between the dub and sub side of DB fandom, generally speaking I've had a LOT more in the way of problems and harsh criticisms towards the SUB'S side of things than I have the dub's (much of which I've gone through in more recent threads lately).

But either way, I keep things broad because I don't wish to single anyone out: because NONE of this is the LEAST bit personal. I just call things out for how I see them.

[Robo4900]

DBZ movie 6 is not the worst of the movies, and in fact, it's not even that bad; it's just kinda dumb, and not particularly well-animated. IMO, Z movies 3, 4, and 7 are all less enjoyable, and thus worse, in my view.

[ABED]

DBZ movie 6 is not the worst of the movies, and in fact, it's not even that bad; it's just kinda dumb, and not particularly well-animated. IMO, Z movies 3, 4, and 7 are all less enjoyable, and thus worse, in my view.

6 is metal Coola, and I don't recall many if any saying it's the worst. The winner of "Worst DBZ Film" is either Lord Slug or Bio-Broly. Do you have 6 mixed up with 7? 7 is Super Android 13!

[Robo4900]

6 is metal Coola, and I don't recall many if any saying it's the worst. The winner of "Worst DBZ Film" is either Lord Slug or Bio-Broly. Do you have 6 mixed up with 7? 7 is Super Android 13!

No, I mean 6. I've seen a lot of hate thrown around about it. Maybe Kanzenshuu is a little softer on it.

[ABED]

6 is metal Coola, and I don't recall many if any saying it's the worst. The winner of "Worst DBZ Film" is either Lord Slug or Bio-Broly. Do you have 6 mixed up with 7? 7 is Super Android 13!

No, I mean 6. I've seen a lot of hate thrown around about it. Maybe Kanzenshuu is a little softer on it.

Maybe I'm just out of the loop, but that's not been my experience in my 20+ years in this fandom.

[Robo4900]

Maybe I'm just out of the loop, but that's not been my experience in my 20+ years in this fandom.

IDK.

Well, if that is the case, how about this one?

DBZ movie 5 is crap, and it's worse than 6.

[ABED]

Maybe I'm just out of the loop, but that's not been my experience in my 20+ years in this fandom.

IDK.

Well, if that is the case, how about this one?

DBZ movie 5 is crap, and it's worse than 6.

In my experience, that would be unpopular on both counts.

[sintzu]

6 is metal Coola, and I don't recall many if any saying it's the worst. The winner of "Worst DBZ Film" is either Lord Slug or Bio-Broly. Do you have 6 mixed up with 7? 7 is Super Android 13!

No, I mean 6. I've seen a lot of hate thrown around about it. Maybe Kanzenshuu is a little softer on it.

I don't think there's much hate for it here. It's one of my favorite Z movies. Slug and Bio-Broly are usually up there but personally I like Slug as it has to do with Namakians and Piccolo has a big role in it. Bio-Broly is just... If there's anything that fits the bill for movie "filler" it's that one as you can tell they were completely out of ideas at that point.

DBZ movie 5 is crap.

[MasenkoHA]

Is saying ALL the DBZ movies were either boring and/or awful an unpopular opinion?

[Robo4900]

DBZ movie 5 is crap.

Haha. Sorry, I just really didn't like it. Thought it was a bit boring and unnecessarily all over the place.

Is saying ALL the DBZ movies were either boring and/or awful an unpopular opinion?

Yes.
I personally consider movies 1 and 2 to be rather excellent, and 8 to be flawed but pretty great. Haven't seen 9-13 yet, but I hear most people tend to like 12 and 13. So... I think that's unpopular.

[sintzu]

Is saying ALL the DBZ movies were either boring and/or awful an unpopular opinion?

the popular opinion is 12 & 13 are fan favorites and 5 & 8 introduced fan favorite characters while their sequels failed to live up to them. I'd add that the first 3 movies have gotten popular lately as they still used the humans compared to what came after. I'v always liked 4&7 but it seems like I'm in a minority. No one likes Bio-Broly.