Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.
Forte224 wrote:Oh oh, see by final battle I thought you were singling out the Ultra Instinct fight in 130 being trash. But no I totally agree with you. After the first fight against Goku showing Jiren's immense strength, it's like they wrote themselves into a corner and were forced to make him look weaker so he didn't just one shot everyone.
This is issue Dragon Ball has had for many years in many major fights.
I'm not thinking of any. Mind clarifying?
The battle the Z-Fighters had against Freeza could have ended in seconds if Freeza went straight to his Final Form and powered up to anything above 50%.
Perfect Cell is so much powerful than the rest of the main cast, he practically has to hand the main cast an opportunity to defeat by creating the Cell Games Tournament
And Majin Boo... man, Toriyama wrote himself into a corner with how overpowered he made him. You really had to forget that he had a Transfiguration/Change Beam technique that could have ended the plot in seconds.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
Lord Beerus wrote:
This is issue Dragon Ball has had for many years in many major fights.
I'm not thinking of any. Mind clarifying?
The battle the Z-Fighters had against Freeza could have ended in seconds if Freeza went straight to his Final Form and powered up to anything above 50%.
Perfect Cell is so much powerful than the rest of the main cast, he practically has to hand the main cast an opportunity to defeat by creating the Cell Games Tournament
And Majin Boo... man, Toriyama wrote himself into a corner with how overpowered he made him. You really had to forget that he had a Transfiguration/Change Beam technique that could have ended the plot in seconds.
Well yeah but Jiren was really badly handled. I assumed he was holding back when he was going against SSBKK Goku and SSBE Vegeta but based on the context of the crowd he was using even more power than when he whooped SSBKK Goku without even thinking about it? And now he seems to be having struggles? Nothing comes close to the inconsistency of Jiren's power. With Cell and Boo, you can at least assume they didn't blow everything and everyone up right away because they felt like fighting. Cell wanted to test his new power and Boo was just having a blast. Freeza was taken off guard (several times though, he should've learned at some point to stop messing around). Jiren literally got nerfed so he didn't wipe the entire fighting stage too quickly.
I don't think that's an issue with villains. Bad guys, including real ones, make questionable decisions when doing the right thing or the expedient thing would've made far more sense. Freeza's a sadist, so it makes sense that he'd draw out the fight to punish these people who pissed him off. Remember, this is a genre of characters that are about the fight, even the bad guys.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
Forte224 wrote:
I'm not thinking of any. Mind clarifying?
The battle the Z-Fighters had against Freeza could have ended in seconds if Freeza went straight to his Final Form and powered up to anything above 50%.
Perfect Cell is so much powerful than the rest of the main cast, he practically has to hand the main cast an opportunity to defeat by creating the Cell Games Tournament
And Majin Boo... man, Toriyama wrote himself into a corner with how overpowered he made him. You really had to forget that he had a Transfiguration/Change Beam technique that could have ended the plot in seconds.
Well yeah but Jiren was really badly handled. I assumed he was holding back when he was going against SSBKK Goku and SSBE Vegeta but based on the context of the crowd he was using even more power than when he whooped SSBKK Goku without even thinking about it? And now he seems to be having struggles? Nothing comes close to the inconsistency of Jiren's power. With Cell and Boo, you can at least assume they didn't blow everything and everyone up right away because they felt like fighting. Cell wanted to test his new power and Boo was just having a blast. Freeza was taken off guard (several times though, he should've learned at some point to stop messing around). Jiren literally got nerfed so he didn't wipe the entire fighting stage too quickly.
Jiren is certainly a weird case, but nothing new to how fighters in Dragon Ball like to "play with their food". Jiren was sandbagging the fuck out of every fight he was in until Episode 127, when he finally put some real effort into combat. Hell, Vegeta even notes while fighting him in Episode 122, that Jiren was faster and stronger when he was previously fighting Goku, implying that Jiren lowered his strength to fight SSJB Vegeta as wanted to make his fight with Vegeta more entertaining as he knew he could one-shot Vegeta if he went all out. Jiren stated he was looking for strong opponent and regulated himself at a strength that could accommodate the power of the strong opponent(s) he was looking for to have a good battle with. Krillin and Roshi provided an excellent analogy for this mentality in Episode 109.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
Lord Beerus wrote:
The battle the Z-Fighters had against Freeza could have ended in seconds if Freeza went straight to his Final Form and powered up to anything above 50%.
Perfect Cell is so much powerful than the rest of the main cast, he practically has to hand the main cast an opportunity to defeat by creating the Cell Games Tournament
And Majin Boo... man, Toriyama wrote himself into a corner with how overpowered he made him. You really had to forget that he had a Transfiguration/Change Beam technique that could have ended the plot in seconds.
Well yeah but Jiren was really badly handled. I assumed he was holding back when he was going against SSBKK Goku and SSBE Vegeta but based on the context of the crowd he was using even more power than when he whooped SSBKK Goku without even thinking about it? And now he seems to be having struggles? Nothing comes close to the inconsistency of Jiren's power. With Cell and Boo, you can at least assume they didn't blow everything and everyone up right away because they felt like fighting. Cell wanted to test his new power and Boo was just having a blast. Freeza was taken off guard (several times though, he should've learned at some point to stop messing around). Jiren literally got nerfed so he didn't wipe the entire fighting stage too quickly.
Jiren is certainly a weird case, but nothing new to how fighters in Dragon Ball like to "play with their food". Jiren was sandbagging the fuck out of every fight he was in until Episode 127, when he finally put some real effort into combat. Hell, Vegeta even notes while fighting him in Episode 122, that Jiren was faster and stronger when he was previously fighting Goku, implying that Jiren lowered his strength to fight SSJB Vegeta as wanted to make his fight with Vegeta more entertaining as he knew he could one-shot Vegeta if he went all out. Jiren stated he was looking for strong opponent and regulated himself at a strength that could accommodate the power of the strong opponent(s) he was looking for to have a good battle with. Krillin and Roshi provided an excellent analogy for this mentality in Episode 109.
I...guess so. It just felt like there were times that Jiren was legitimately trying to knock people off and not succeeding towards the end, when it should've been a cake walk based on his original fight with Goku.
Forte224 wrote:
Well yeah but Jiren was really badly handled. I assumed he was holding back when he was going against SSBKK Goku and SSBE Vegeta but based on the context of the crowd he was using even more power than when he whooped SSBKK Goku without even thinking about it? And now he seems to be having struggles? Nothing comes close to the inconsistency of Jiren's power. With Cell and Boo, you can at least assume they didn't blow everything and everyone up right away because they felt like fighting. Cell wanted to test his new power and Boo was just having a blast. Freeza was taken off guard (several times though, he should've learned at some point to stop messing around). Jiren literally got nerfed so he didn't wipe the entire fighting stage too quickly.
Jiren is certainly a weird case, but nothing new to how fighters in Dragon Ball like to "play with their food". Jiren was sandbagging the fuck out of every fight he was in until Episode 127, when he finally put some real effort into combat. Hell, Vegeta even notes while fighting him in Episode 122, that Jiren was faster and stronger when he was previously fighting Goku, implying that Jiren lowered his strength to fight SSJB Vegeta as wanted to make his fight with Vegeta more entertaining as he knew he could one-shot Vegeta if he went all out. Jiren stated he was looking for strong opponent and regulated himself at a strength that could accommodate the power of the strong opponent(s) he was looking for to have a good battle with. Krillin and Roshi provided an excellent analogy for this mentality in Episode 109.
I...guess so. It just felt like there were times that Jiren was legitimately trying to knock people off and not succeeding towards the end, when it should've been a cake walk based on his original fight with Goku.
Jiren is like every other major antagonist in Dragon Ball. He could end the fight instantly, but just doesn't because "plot". Hell, the only antanongst in Dragon Ball that tried to end the battle as quickly as he could was Goku Black, and even he couldn't pull it off because of Plot Armour.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
Jiren is like every other major antagonist in Dragon Ball. He could end the fight instantly, but just doesn't because "plot". Hell, the only antanongst in Dragon Ball that tried to end the battle as quickly as he could was Goku Black, and even he couldn't pull it off because of Plot Armour.
Why couldn't he end the battle just because Plot armor?
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
That's my point though. There were moments where it seemed like he was trying to end it quickly but couldn't. Like, there was nothing intentional about it. Mainly in the Goku Vegeta team up.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:I mean, Super's definitely got something going for it, otherwise those people constantly screeching about how it is terrible and the worst thing ever and pointless and childhood-destroying wouldn't have tuned in every single week to gouge their eyes and ears out with such a terrible product.
If nothing else, Super's got the Dragon Ball name slapped onto it, so the novelty of "a new Dragon Ball series" can keep even the most serious detractors coming back.
I just can't get behind the mentality of watching every single episode of a show you hate, even if it is related to one you do like. Especially considering that Super is literally 131 episodes long.
Rocketman wrote:"Shonen" basically means "stupid sentimental shit" anyway, so it's ok to be anti-shonen.
Jiren is like every other major antagonist in Dragon Ball. He could end the fight instantly, but just doesn't because "plot". Hell, the only antanongst in Dragon Ball that tried to end the battle as quickly as he could was Goku Black, and even he couldn't pull it off because of Plot Armour.
Why couldn't he end the battle just because Plot armor?
Have you watched Super yet? Because I feel I may spoil something for you if I go an further.
Forte224 wrote:That's my point though. There were moments where it seemed like he was trying to end it quickly but couldn't. Like, there was nothing intentional about it. Mainly in the Goku Vegeta team up.
It wasn't that that Jiren couldn't have ended it, but he chose not to as he was more interested in getting a good fight.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
As an aside, while terms like "plot armor" are concise, the thing I don't like about it is at kinda turns "plot" into a pejorative.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
Kid Buu wrote:I just can't get behind the mentality of watching every single episode of a show you hate, even if it is related to one you do like. Especially considering that Super is literally 131 episodes long.
Oh, I can't get behind it either. It's just brand-loyalty/franchise-fetishism at that point. Like, I had fun watching Super. There was a novelty to tuning into new Dragon Ball every week, but I could never justify purchasing and owning it. Unlike the original manga, the original anime (including TV specials), the original 16 movies, GT, Battle of Gods, Jaco, Resurrection F, and Super's Manga, it's not exactly the kind of thing I'm willing to fully go back through. Unlike the rest of that, it was definitely one time ride, for me, and although the ride was fun, that definitely sets it apart from the rest, and not in a good way.
But if someone wasn't even having fun with the ride, then I don't see any obligation for them to have stayed on.
As an aside, while terms like "plot armor" are concise, the thing I don't like about it is at kinda turns "plot" into a pejorative.
Okay, so basically in Episode 57, when Goku Black and Zamasu fight SSJ Future Trunks and Super Saiyan Blue Goku, Goku and Future Trunks are on the ropes and with Zamasu pinning down Goku and Future Trunks, Super Saiyan Rose Goku Black hits SSJ Future Trunks and Super Saiyan Blue Goku with a Kamehameha... that does nothing to them. And keep in mind, in the previous episode, Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta was nearly killed by Super Saiyan Rose Goku Black with a single Ki Blade through the torso. And before even that happened, Goku Black in his base form was no selling attacks from Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta. The point I'm making is that the gap in strength between Super Saiyan Rose Goku Black and SSJ Future Trunks/Super Saiyan Blue Goku was too fucking big for that Kamehameha to not instantly kill both Goku and Future Trunks.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
Wont quote everyone but i'm shocked some of you actually put "Super" over the latter half of the Manga material post X arc that takes place after the 23rd tournament. Dont get me wrong I like Super, I like it a lot but to say that overall you Prefer U6 arc, Zamasu arc and ToP over the original Saiyan, Freeza, Cell and Boo arcs. Thats crazy to me. Pacing aside which the original dragon Ball anime (at least Z anyway) is guilty of having very long pacing at times, though most notibly in the Saiyan and Freeza arcs. The character moments we get in those arcs when we were supposed to get them stand out and hold more weight than anything hoping to be a character moment in Super. Again Dont get me wrong I dont hate Super, I dont dislike it, I like it a lot I just cant put it over "Z" if you will.
By the way.. I prefer Jiren over Hit.
It's not too late. One day, it will be.
Peace And Power MF DOOM!
Peace and Power Kevin Samuels
PremiumSalt wrote:Funny that’s my exact ranking:
Dragon Ball
Dragon Ball Super
Dragon Ball Z
Dragon Ball GT
Guess I gotta turn in my fan card?
Probably. Mine is:
Dragon Ball
Dragon Ball Z
Dragon Ball Super
Dragon Ball GT
Power levels are not just big numbers:
Spoiler:
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Kid Buu wrote:I just can't get behind the mentality of watching every single episode of a show you hate, even if it is related to one you do like. Especially considering that Super is literally 131 episodes long.
Oh, I can't get behind it either. It's just brand-loyalty/franchise-fetishism at that point. Like, I had fun watching Super. There was a novelty to tuning into new Dragon Ball every week, but I could never justify purchasing and owning it. Unlike the original manga, the original anime (including TV specials), the original 16 movies, GT, Battle of Gods, Jaco, Resurrection F, and Super's Manga, it's not exactly the kind of thing I'm willing to fully go back through. Unlike the rest of that, it was definitely one time ride, for me, and although the ride was fun, that definitely sets it apart from the rest, and not in a good way.
But if someone wasn't even having fun with the ride, then I don't see any obligation for them to have stayed on.
That reminds me of an another unpopular opinion I have - when people say that the franchise should have ended at certain spots. I can understand not liking the series after a certain point, but to say something shouldn't exist just because you don't enjoy it comes across as rather selfish.
Rocketman wrote:"Shonen" basically means "stupid sentimental shit" anyway, so it's ok to be anti-shonen.
but to say something shouldn't exist just because you don't enjoy it comes across as rather selfish.
I don't see anything wrong with someone saying a story should've stopped after a certain point.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
I thought SSJ3 and SSJ4 were awesome looking when i was younger but nowadays they are both to overdone for my taste, I still love the golden oozaru tho. Mastered ultra instinct is the sexiest looking transformation ever especially the way Goku was covered in that solid ki shell in the beginning before it broke away.
DragonBallKing wrote:I thought SSJ3 and SSJ4 were awesome looking when i was younger but nowadays they are both to overdone for my taste, I still love the golden oozaru tho. Mastered ultra instinct is the sexiest looking transformation ever especially the way Goku was covered in that solid ki shell in the beginning before it broke away.
Meh, I preferred the early omen. I Think MUI was overdone with the white hair and awkward looking shapes his hair spikes took. It looks exactly like it was pulled from fanfic. Just missing the tribal tattoos. I don't see the white hair thing being cool simply because of that. The fanfare around the form made the fanbase look very easily impressionable but the way Toei's MUI was just idn't make sense to me with it being a transformation at all and that Goku could still talk and give speeches in it, despite him just supposed to be in autopilot. The form just did not fit with Toriyama's description at all.
goku the krump dancer wrote:Wont quote everyone but i'm shocked some of you actually put "Super" over the latter half of the Manga material post X arc that takes place after the 23rd tournament. Dont get me wrong I like Super, I like it a lot but to say that overall you Prefer U6 arc, Zamasu arc and ToP over the original Saiyan, Freeza, Cell and Boo arcs. Thats crazy to me. Pacing aside which the original dragon Ball anime (at least Z anyway) is guilty of having very long pacing at times, though most notibly in the Saiyan and Freeza arcs. The character moments we get in those arcs when we were supposed to get them stand out and hold more weight than anything hoping to be a character moment in Super. Again Dont get me wrong I dont hate Super, I dont dislike it, I like it a lot I just cant put it over "Z" if you will.
By the way.. I prefer Jiren over Hit.
I really can't see how anyone could put any arc in Super above Z. Even if people disliked the Buu arc, it still fit the needed structural flow that was consistent with the Z arcs while most of Super's felt rushed, to artificial/pre-planned for marketing's sake in its endings. I think its pretty absurd that someone could judge arcs with no story whatsoever as superior to those with them. I definitely agree that character moments in Z were more weighted for the character arcs they ended or furthered, as opposed to the novelty "moments" in Super where something done just might look cute that it happened, like the Father-Son Galick Gun (even though Trunks learning that and the FF out of no where is not questioned) hence why they're just "moments" to appeal, but no substance for real impact.
Last edited by SingleFringe&Sparks on Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Zephyr wrote:The fandom's collective fetishizing of "moments" is also ridiculous to me. No, not everyone needs a fucking "shine" moment. If that's all you want, then all you want is fanservice, rather than an actual coherent story. And of course those aren't mutually exclusive; you could have a coherent story with "shine" moments! But if a story is perfectly coherent (and I'm really not seeing any compelling arguments that this one is anything but, despite constantly recurring, really poorly reasoned, attempts to argue otherwise), and you're bemoaning the lack of "shine" moments as a reason for the story's poor quality, then you're letting your thirst for "shine" moments obfuscate your ability to detect basic storytelling when it's right in front of you.
DragonBallKing wrote:I thought SSJ3 and SSJ4 were awesome looking when i was younger but nowadays they are both to overdone for my taste, I still love the golden oozaru tho. Mastered ultra instinct is the sexiest looking transformation ever especially the way Goku was covered in that solid ki shell in the beginning before it broke away.
Meh, I preferred the early omen. I Think MUI was overdone with the white hair and awkward looking shapes his hair spikes took. It looks exactly like it was pulled from fanfic. Just missing the tribal tattoos. I don't see the white hair thing being cool simply because of that. The only thing MUI has is the CG aura.
I only squee over SS4 Goku because to me it truly made him a ''monkey king'' that wasn't just Son Wu-Kong's clothing on him.
Maybe its just the pink fur and eyeliner that bothers me IDK, but I don't think mastered UI was overdone all it did was change the hairstyle a bit and turn it white compared to Fan art designs i've seen for SSJ 5/6/7 etc, M UI seems tame by comparison.
