Unpopular DB opinions

[ABED]

Perhaps good in idea, but not in execution.

[Kanassa]

I would respectfully disagree and argue that it's built on revenge and nostalgia. The idea that Goku's former escapades have consequences that come back to haunt him is an age-old formula that works. There were so many twists and turns in the Cell Saga that I was kept interested when I was 13 and still enjoy reading it today. But maybe that's just me!

When I say built on fluff, I mean as in when you really think about it: The majority of the saga was entirely pointless.

Which is every saga though. They'res nothing wrong with that. Seeing failure is just as important as seeing success.

No, because in a narrative sense, other saga's have little in a plot sense. Cell Saga is arguably one of the most plot heavy saga in Dragonball, but little of the saga actually contribute outside of 'It cool scene'.

Future Trunks? Cool, but you lose little from the story if he and the whole time travel buissness was gone
Piccolo VS 17? Cool, but you lose nothing if it didn't happen (Piccolo fusing with Kami did contribute to Piccolo's character)
Vegeta & Trunks fighting Cell? Here was a perfect event to help the story, Vegeta's relationship with Trunks is barely touched. His reaction to Trunks's death is meaningless because it comes out of nowhere, this could have rectified that. Instead, this is basically filler because the event has little change if this didn't happen.
As a side note, this could of also been used to have Krillin develop his attachment to 18 and make him look less stupid when he smashes the remote. You know, actually giving him a reason to think the androids were better people than the future says.

It's perfectly fine to have cool, but other-wise pointless moments. But when they take up THE MAJORITY of the story, it's kind of a problem for me. It's like skipping to the end of a book and not really missing anything. Maybe this is why Dragonball is usually less plot heavy.

[Danfun64]

Not my opinion (not to mention that I never saw the original DB dubs in their entirety) but I've heard that a couple fans of original DB watch the uncut Funi dub from episodes 1-83 and then switch to Blue Water for at least 84-148, then returning to uncut Funi for the wedding dress filler arc. Is there any sense to that?

[ABED]

No, because in a narrative sense, other saga's have little in a plot sense. Cell Saga is arguably one of the most plot heavy saga in Dragonball, but little of the saga actually contribute outside of 'It cool scene'.

Plot is just whatever the characters do and say. It's not so much plot heavy as it is complicated. The Freeza arc has plenty of twists and turns despite being arguably more simple.

Vegeta & Trunks fighting Cell? Here was a perfect event to help the story, Vegeta's relationship with Trunks is barely touched. His reaction to Trunks's death is meaningless because it comes out of nowhere, this could have rectified that. Instead, this is basically filler because the event has little change if this didn't happen.

It doesn't come out of nowhere, writers don't need to telegraph character development. It works in the same way Vegeta saying he's sorry to Gohan worked. It was a confluence of events that finally got to him, especially after he lost Goku for what he thought was permanent.

[Kanassa]

It doesn't come out of nowhere, writers don't need to telegraph character development. It works in the same way Vegeta saying he's sorry to Gohan worked. It was a confluence of events that finally got to him, especially after he lost Goku for what he thought was permanent.

If there was no hint, foreshadowing or anything given to even imply that Vegeta cared about his son. Then him caring about his son comes out of nowhere as a character moment.

[ABED]

It doesn't come out of nowhere, writers don't need to telegraph character development. It works in the same way Vegeta saying he's sorry to Gohan worked. It was a confluence of events that finally got to him, especially after he lost Goku for what he thought was permanent.

If there was no hint, foreshadowing or anything given to even imply that Vegeta cared about his son. Then him caring about his son comes out of nowhere as a character moment.

You don't need a hint, you just need a change of circumstance. You aren't asking for a hint, what you seem to want is Toriyama to telegraph it. Vegeta's constantly changing. Before Freeza beat him to death, Vegeta never shed a tear. There was also no hint that he was ever sorry for anything he ever did before he said it to Gohan. I think what you and others that bring up this point miss is that Vegeta is a character that evolves all the time. He went from a guy that had no compunction about destroying Earth to being able to live on it problem free to eventually dying to defend it.

[Kanassa]

It doesn't come out of nowhere, writers don't need to telegraph character development. It works in the same way Vegeta saying he's sorry to Gohan worked. It was a confluence of events that finally got to him, especially after he lost Goku for what he thought was permanent.

If there was no hint, foreshadowing or anything given to even imply that Vegeta cared about his son. Then him caring about his son comes out of nowhere as a character moment.

You don't need a hint, you just need a change of circumstance. You aren't asking for a hint, what you seem to want is Toriyama to telegraph it. Vegeta's constantly changing. Before Freeza beat him to death, Vegeta never shed a tear. There was also no hint that he was ever sorry for anything he ever did before he said it to Gohan. I think what you and others that bring up this point miss is that Vegeta is a character that evolves all the time. He went from a guy that had no compunction about destroying Earth to being able to live on it problem free to eventually dying to defend it.

I know that Vegeta is a character that is evolving all the time, but the audience barely gets to see that evolution, only the result. Which flies in the face of the constantly touted idea that Vegeta is the shows example of how well it can develop characters. He develops, yes, but it's bad development. Bar the Buu Arc and beyond, we never see why he changes, we never see why he suddenly cares about Trunks. Which takes away from the moments that are there to show how much he's changed.

[ABED]

I know that Vegeta is a character that is evolving all the time, but the audience barely gets to see that evolution, only the result. Which flies in the face of the constantly touted idea that Vegeta is the shows example of how well it can develop characters. He develops, yes, but it's bad development. Bar the Buu Arc and beyond, we never see why he changes, we never see why he suddenly cares about Trunks. Which takes away from the moments that are there to show how much he's changed.

To you, what is good development and what suffices as "why"?

We do get to see the evolution, what we don't get him making speeches or inner monologues where he explicitly states why he changed. We don't get that with Piccolo either. Why does the demon king of all people come to care for Gohan?

[8000 Saiyan]

Not my opinion (not to mention that I never saw the original DB dubs in their entirety) but I've heard that a couple fans of original DB watch the uncut Funi dub from episodes 1-83 and then switch to Blue Water for at least 84-148, then returning to uncut Funi for the wedding dress filler arc. Is there any sense to that?

Nope, I don't think there's any sense in that.

Anyway, I can't stand Dragon Soul. Kuu-Zen-Zetsu-Go is much better.

[Totamo]

I'd say the cell saga is the most popular outside of Kanzenshuu.

Yeah, I never really saw people disliking it much, or even hating it, until I came here. It's got a huge following outside of here.

As far as story structure goes, The Cell Saga is incredible. It's one of the most complex and satisfying arcs in all of Dragonball and is a near-perfect resolution to the series that Toriyama originally wanted it to be; Goku's past (Red Ribbon) returns to kill him off and his son, Gohan, takes over the mantle along with justice for his father. If Toriyama would have ended the entire series here, it would have been a fitting end for sure, regardless of people wanting to see more or not, simply because of how well it bookends the series.

The Cell/Androids saga is my absolute favorite because of how well developed the characters are, along with the resolve of the plot. My only issue is the dead-end that is Android 16. So many questions and so much lost potential on a great character.

My issue of that arc is that it paints goku in the worst light possible and is the main reason I roll my eyes at people who say goku has suddenly become reckless and selfish in super.

Not more, but has just become

[Gog]

I actually don't mind the fact that there's only 28 planets with intelligent life on them.

[Freeza9000]

I actually don't mind the fact that there's only 28 planets with intelligent life on them.

There's the fact that Freeza, Saiyans, and Boo have caused chaos and destruction for decades in the universe and several planets were even destroyed. Beerus also destroys planets that just annoy him and the clash between SSJG Goku and Beerus caused some planets to get destroyed. Though Universe 7 having such a ridiculously low amount of planets is a bit too much, you get the point that it's the 2nd to the worst ranked universe beside Universe 9.

[Gog]

I actually don't mind the fact that there's only 28 planets with intelligent life on them.

There's the fact that Freeza, Saiyans, and Boo have caused chaos and destruction for decades in the universe and several planets were even destroyed. Beerus also destroys planets that just annoy him and the clash between SSJG Goku and Beerus caused some planets to get destroyed. Though Universe 7 having such a ridiculously low amount of planets is a bit too much, you get the point that it's the 2nd to the worst ranked universe beside Universe 9.

I just love the fact that it high lights how gloriously incompetent the god's are from universe 7. It also makes Black's goal seem more realistic and actually achievable at the rate he was offing off civilizations.

[Noah]

It is a ridiculous low number considering the universe is quite big and having 4 Kais taking care of 4 galaxies and a lot of Kaioshins that don't do crap doesn't feel right to me.

[kinisking]

It is a ridiculous low number considering the universe is quite big and having 4 Kais taking care of 4 galaxies and a lot of Kaioshins that don't do crap doesn't feel right to me.

It doesn't to the Omniking either. The gods in Dragonball have always been portrayed as incompetent.

[Beek King]

I've said it before but I don't buy the same excuse people keep saying about Buu/Freeza blowing up planets for a second. When Shin was talking about having 28 planets, he specifically singled out Sadal, Vegeta and Namek being gone. You'd think he'd actually mention any larger extinction events. The way it was put they implied the number has been low for quite a while. And it still doesn't make sense given the scope portrayed previously in the series.

[Gog]

The Majin Buu saga is a much more entertaining Arc than the entirety of early Dragon Ball.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

The Majin Buu saga is a much more entertaining Arc than the entirety of early Dragon Ball.

I found Piccolo's Arc to be more entertaining, if less imaginative. Imaginative is something that most of the Boo Arc definitely is, though.

[Asura]

The Red Ribbon Arc is really boring.

The Goku vs Freeza fight that lasted a billion episodes is actually one of the best fights in the entire anime, mostly due in part to its length.

The Buu Saga is the best saga in DBZ.

I think Cell is a boring villain, but he has a really interesting personality and is a well-written character.

I think Super Buu is a well written and unique character, even after he's absorbed Gohan and Gotenks. I think he's more than just a Cell clone.

I don't mind the existence of Episode of Bardock

The Android Saga is the worst saga of DBZ (up until Cell reaches his perfect form).

GT is actually pretty good.

But I don't like the GT ending. I don't think it's a perfect fitting ending for Dragonball like so many have said. IMO Dragonball should just have an open ending, that implies there are many more adventures for Goku to have. Goku dying for good is just...kind of a buzzkill.

[floofychan333]

The 2nd and 3rd Broly movies are way better than the 1st one.