Unpopular DB opinions

[Nejishiki]

Saying artificial human is just terrible though. At best that's just a synonym for android. At worst, it can only describe Cell. Even worse than that, it doesn't even properly describe Cell either.

That doesn't make much sense. To say "Jinzoningen" is to say "Artificial Human(s)" just as saying "Kami" is saying "God". You aren't using separate terms, you're saying one or the other in Japanese or English. I could imagine the looks I'd get in reality if I claimed saying "blue" was terrible so I'll opt for "azul" instead. You said the same thing! In the script, Artificial Humans is used as a general term while Future Trunks & Kuririn outright say "cyborgs". It's acknowledged in the story. Maybe you know already but that's the direct translation. It almost feels like the modern misunderstanding of "ningen" meaning human & not mortal. Toriyama has odd usage with vocabulary! The translations aren't at fault. They mean what they're supposed to mean yet are applied differently in Dragon World. We just have to pay attention to it.

[nickzambuto]

Saying artificial human is just terrible though. At best that's just a synonym for android. At worst, it can only describe Cell. Even worse than that, it doesn't even properly describe Cell either.

That doesn't make much sense. To say "Jinzoningen" is to say "Artificial Human(s)" just as saying "Kami" is saying "God". You aren't using separate terms, you're saying one or the other in Japanese or English. I could imagine the looks I'd get in reality if I claimed saying "blue" was terrible so I'll opt for "azul" instead. You said the same thing! In the script, Artificial Humans is used as a general term while Future Trunks & Kuririn outright say "cyborgs". It's acknowledged in the story. Maybe you know already but that's the direct translation. It almost feels like the modern misunderstanding of "ningen" meaning human & not mortal. Toriyama has odd usage with vocabulary! The translations aren't at fault. They mean what they're supposed to mean yet are applied differently in Dragon World. We just have to pay attention to it.

Jinzoningen doesn't directly translate to artificial human, as far as I know. I don't think it has any exact equivalent, the best thing would be "man created man", but in Japanese it's just an all-encompassing term used for robots, cyborgs, androids and the likes. IIRC Steve Simmons' subtitles used the artificial human term, and that became popular among early fans, but it's really neither a proper description nor a proper translation.

[Nejishiki]

"Man-made" is synonymous with "artificial". It's natural English to use the latter but they're essentially the same meaning in the process of literal, direct translation. To say it's improper isn't really accurate. If context is what you're worried about, well as I said, it's addressed in the story itself. Toriyama deliberately uses 人造人間 despite each member being a different type of Artificial Human (or サイボーグ). It's not a case of mistranslation since those are the characters you'll find in the manga. I understand adaption because that's fine. It's just not wrong like you seem to imply. In any case, most foreign markets, Japan included, translate it as "Android" without worrying about specifics since they're not being direct like Simmons.

[TheUltimateNinja]

I know Kuririn's mocked a lot, but both of his deaths were actually incredibly sad.

[kinisking]

I know Kuririn's mocked a lot, but both of his deaths were actually incredibly sad.

He's died 3 times. And Krillin getting mocked is one of the most stupid part of this fan base. Him continuing to fight even though he's weak and has died before shows that Krillin is brave as hell

[TheUltimateNinja]

I know Kuririn's mocked a lot, but both of his deaths were actually incredibly sad.

He's died 3 times. And Krillin getting mocked is one of the most stupid part of this fan base. Him continuing to fight even though he's weak and has died before shows that Krillin is brave as hell

I don't count the encounter with Buu as an actual death, but I suppose he did technically die. Wasn't killed in the conventional sense, though.

[The gr]

I know Kuririn's mocked a lot, but both of his deaths were actually incredibly sad.

He's died 3 times. And Krillin getting mocked is one of the most stupid part of this fan base. Him continuing to fight even though he's weak and has died before shows that Krillin is brave as hell

And the joke of him dying a lot is so lame the same could be applied with the Yamcha meme

[Cetra]

It's just not wrong like you seem to imply.

Except it is wrong like I mentioned already in a conversation long ago as only a handful are actual Androids therefore either finding a better translation as term of differentiating from the very beginning is the way to go. It does not matter if there is a potential for the word to be correct. The correct understanding comes from the correct decoding of the message within the given context. That is how correct communication psychology works. Everything that goes against intention and context is a disturbance of communication, thus wrong. No one denies Jinzoningen can mean Android or is "normally used most directly". That is not the point though. And as I told you once before, even in Dragon Ball the characters very well already played with the thought of them not just being artificial things. I told you even that Piccolo assumed 20 was Gero. You thought Bulma was the first one who pointed it out but that is not the case. Piccolo assumed it, therefore he assumed that guy was a modified person, therefore they absolutely where within the realm of thinking about modified guys and not just created guys. Not to forget Trunks even saying Cyborg. Contextualized like this, Android is still extremely misleading. Ask me "Can you tell me what time it is" with the intention of knowing what time it is afterwards and me just answering "Yes" as in "Yes, I have the abilit to do that" while a "potentially correct answer for the context-free question" is still a disturbance of communication because within the intended context it is not at all what should have been answered.

[Ki Breaker]

I know Kuririn's mocked a lot, but both of his deaths were actually incredibly sad.

He's died 3 times. And Krillin getting mocked is one of the most stupid part of this fan base. Him continuing to fight even though he's weak and has died before shows that Krillin is brave as hell

Krillin is arguably the most respectable character of the franchise..
Him getting trolled is pretty stupid

[kinisking]

I know Kuririn's mocked a lot, but both of his deaths were actually incredibly sad.

He's died 3 times. And Krillin getting mocked is one of the most stupid part of this fan base. Him continuing to fight even though he's weak and has died before shows that Krillin is brave as hell

Krillin is arguably the most respectable character of the franchise..
Him getting trolled is pretty stupid

Tien is the most respectable imo, but Krillins a very close second.

[rereboy]

It's just not wrong like you seem to imply.

Except it is wrong like I mentioned already in a conversation long ago as only a handful are actual Androids therefore either finding a better translation as term of differentiating from the very beginning is the way to go. It does not matter if there is a potential for the word to be correct. The correct understanding comes from the correct decoding of the message within the given context. That is how correct communication psychology works. Everything that goes against intention and context is a disturbance of communication, thus wrong. No one denies Jinzoningen can mean Android or is "normally used most directly". That is not the point though. And as I told you once before, even in Dragon Ball the characters very well already played with the thought of them not just being artificial things. I told you even that Piccolo assumed 20 was Gero. You thought Bulma was the first one who pointed it out but that is not the case. Piccolo assumed it, therefore he assumed that guy was a modified person, therefore they absolutely where within the realm of thinking about modified guys and not just created guys. Not to forget Trunks even saying Cyborg. Contextualized like this, Android is still extremely misleading. Ask me "Can you tell me what time it is" with the intention of knowing what time it is afterwards and me just answering "Yes" as in "Yes, I have the abilit to do that" while a "potentially correct answer for the context-free question" is still a disturbance of communication because within the intended context it is not at all what should have been answered.

Artificial human is the literal translation and it works because it can refer to either a human that was modified by man or a totally artificial human (as in an human that was created from scratch by man).

The only potential problem would be if we consider the term "human" to refer exclusively to a biological human, as in an Homo Sapiens Sapiens, but as it has been debated before in this forum, the term "human" ("ningen") isn't used exclusively in that sense within Dragon Ball and can even refer to aliens, so it becomes a moot point.

[Cetra]

Artificial human is the literal translation and it works because it can refer to either a human that was modified by man or a totally artificial human (as in an human that was created from scratch by man).

Artificial Human is not what I have a problem with. Android is what I have a problem with and that one is very much used for Jinzoningen even in Japan.

[Gog]

I know Kuririn's mocked a lot, but both of his deaths were actually incredibly sad.

Yeah, don't know why he actually gets mocked. All of his deaths were important, but still...

[spoiler][/spoiler]

[OhHiRenan]

I think the Z anime is a terrible adaptation of the manga. The Saiyan and Namek arcs are absolute slogs to get through. I know a lot of people like the training filler before Vegeta and Nappa arrive, but I 100% hate it. I can only stand watching Gohan learn about life and death so many times before I lose my mind.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

I think the Z anime is a terrible adaptation of the manga. The Saiyan and Namek arcs are absolute slogs to get through. I know a lot of people like the training filler before Vegeta and Nappa arrive, but I 100% hate it. I can only stand watching Gohan learn about life and death so many times before I lose my mind.

It drags sometimes, I'd never binge any of DB again, but I'd hardly call it a terrible adaptation. I doubt they could have done any better with the situation they were in, throwing down so much padding, yet still catching up to the manga frighteningly quickly. They were lucky to strike a balance after Garlic Jr. Also, lots of those episodes are genuinely good, self-contained, memorable stories, which is more than you can say about filler in most series's.

[Nejishiki]

And as I told you once before, even in Dragon Ball the characters very well already played with the thought of them not just being artificial things. I told you even that Piccolo assumed 20 was Gero. You thought Bulma was the first one who pointed it out but that is not the case. Piccolo assumed it, therefore he assumed that guy was a modified person, therefore they absolutely where within the realm of thinking about modified guys and not just created guys.

I'm sorry, but I think you're confusing me for somebody else? I don't believe we've conversed about this subject before. At least, from my recollection, the only other time I've addressed this was in potential defense of someone else using the term. At any rate, the details of your conversation sound unlike my claims (particularly confusing Piccolo for Bluma). I could be wrong & I'm not attempting to invalidate your post, but I really think you have the wrong person. I've acknowledged most of your thoughts in my own posts.

[Gog]

Oh, I feel another rant coming about. So you see I was browsing the new fan service thread, and their was a lot of shitting on Fukkatso no F, and I decided, I don't actually wan't to clog up that thread, so I have decided to move over here. To rant of course, well let it begin.

Now I don't understand the massive heart boner's that people have for this movie. I do actually understand, Yadda, yadda, yadda Freeza four month stupid. Yadda, Yadda, Yadda Whis going back in time is bullshit (it is). But besides all of those, and Beerus and Whis at the end of the movie destroying all tension Fukkatsu no F, is an enjoyable product.

And I'll explain why even though its fanservice. Its fantastic fanservice.

Let us begin, if you were entering Fukkatsu no F, expecting it to be any less than an enjoyable pop corn flick, then you are going to be walking out disappointed, because the movie never once goes out of its way to suggest other wise. Its just meant to be a fun enjoyable time.

Because lets be honest Freeza coming back, training for four months, to becoming god tier, and also unlocking a tacky golden form(foreshadow?), while fighting blue haired Goku. That's stupid you know man, but its equally as stupid as man with no eye brows, and long hair, vs small pink child like blob, or even spiky, electric haired, child V perfect bug man.

Or even the legendary dual of blond hair buff man V buff feminine alien lizard man.

What most people liked about Fukkatsu no F, was the humans coming back and fighting, the hilarious dialogue, the great character moments, the golden Freeza transformation scene, finial form Freeza V base form Goku. And also Freeza coming back golden, and tacky.

I'll repeat this one more time, the premise is no less stupid than any of Toriyama's other ideas, the whole entire movie is just meant to be a pop corn flick, and it exceeded at being a fantastically flawed, enjoyable product

But still, I'll always take Erokolo2's Vicious God's wrath over what we got

[ABED]

I'll repeat this one more time, the premise is no less stupid than any of Toriyama's other ideas, the whole entire movie is just meant to be a pop corn flick, and it exceeded at being a fantastically flawed, enjoyable product

The premise is flawed and more importantly, so is its execution. I don't think anyone believes Dragon Ball is more than a fun series, but even popcorn flicks do need to have a degree of quality to be enjoyed.

[Saikyo no Senshi]

None of those you mentioned were the problems that bothered me in F. Battle powers not making sense is the last thing you'll see me complaining about. I don't care if Freeza trained for only 4 months or even a single minute and became stronger than ever. It not making any sense logically or it is stupid is something battle power fans like doing, not me.

F is garbage cause 1) It was blandly boarded. 2) The director had no experience of being a director and his direction was amateurish. 3) Animation, despite having talented staff on-board was heavily corrected and ruined. People who do great work on other projects didn't deliver the level of work they're known for which is again the director's fault. These are major issues that don't let it be an enjoyable experience.

Some other minor issues are Gokuu and Vegeta being absolute moronic shit bags who don't learn anything at the end and just laugh it off and pretty much say "we aren't changing no matter whatever the fuck happens". It doesn't make me go insane like it makes some other people, but it's still an issue cause they just throw away their development in the trash bin.

Sumitomo's music was like not even there. I don't remember anything about any piece having any sort of impact in the film. It was just underwhelming.

I did like some of the dialogue scenes as you said and the acting by the Japanese cast was amazing as always. Nakao knocked it out of the park, but that was not enough to save a horrible product overall.

[ABED]

None of those you mentioned were the problems that bothered me in F. Battle powers not making sense is the last thing you'll see me complaining about. I don't care if Freeza trained for only 4 months or even a single minute and became stronger than ever. It not making any sense logically or it is stupid is something battle power fans like doing, not me.

To an extent. The whole part about Piccolo having trouble against a guy who is explicitly only as strong as Dodoria and Zarbon is so egregious that it takes me out of the moment. That and the fights felt very flat.

Some other minor issues are Gokuu and Vegeta being absolute moronic shit bags who don't learn anything at the end and just laugh it off and pretty much say "we aren't changing no matter whatever the fuck happens". It doesn't make me go insane like it makes some other people, but it's still an issue cause they just throw away their development in the trash bin.

That doesn't actually bother me because they are who they are and didn't develop and then go back to their old ways. I prefer they stay who they are. They aren't moronic and not a whole lot you can do when the enemy destroys the world in an instant. It's not as though they HAD to team up to defeat Freeza.