Unpopular DB opinions

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by SaiyanGod117 » Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:28 pm

Noah wrote:Super!Goku is the worst portrayal of Goku by far, it makes the character less appealing to me, which is sad considering he's the main deal.
I agree, but this isn't really a unpopular opinion. Although some Sub purist might say Funi Goku is the worst, he was a like-able a least. Super Goku is likeable but that's because he's Goku and a lot of fans have known and grown up with him for so long, not because of his personality. It's ok to crack some jokes and be funny here and there, but it crosses the line when he starts to act like a luffy replica.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Jinzoningen MULE » Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:39 pm

I used to call people lazy for this one, maybe I've switched my position because I'm lazy, but this one is sure to be unpopular:

I'm growing to not like subtitled Dragon Ball. That said, I don't particularly like any of the dubs that much either, but something about watching it the way I used too completely kills my mood. That said, I still love the manga as much as ever, and we're getting a bunch of new dubs on TV, so I'll manage.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Gaffer Tape » Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:10 am

Gog wrote:Oh, I feel another rant coming about. So you see I was browsing the new fan service thread, and their was a lot of shitting on Fukkatso no F, and I decided, I don't actually wan't to clog up that thread, so I have decided to move over here. To rant of course, well let it begin.

Fukkatsu no F, is an enjoyable product.

if you were entering Fukkatsu no F, expecting it to be any less than an enjoyable pop corn flick, then you are going to be walking out disappointed, because the movie never once goes out of its way to suggest other wise. Its just meant to be a fun enjoyable time.
What an enjoyable popcorn flick means to one person is not necessarily what it means to someone else. You say it's meant to be a fun, enjoyable time. I'm not looking for high art here or deep philosophical undertones or overtones. I was looking to have a fun, enjoyable time. What I ended up feeling was bored out of my mind at best and deeply annoyed at worst. That is to say, the only times the movie was holding my interest was when it was pissing me off. So, no, if its intent was to be a fun little popcorn flick, it still failed miserably for me. I did not find it to be an enjoyable product. I found it to be a pandering mess that was more interested in trying to guess what would make me have fangasms over it rather than trying to deliver an actual story. And that's all because...
And I'll explain why even though its fanservice. Its fantastic fanservice.
Fanservice. Nothing but fanservice. You deliver the above as a compliment, but I can't help looking at that statement and the sentiments behind it and cringing. Now perhaps my expectations were skewed. Perhaps I was expecting something a bit more creative (or even just possessing the slightest bit of creativity). But that's less my fault than it is the fault of their own stupid marketing campaign. "The Worst Wish in History!" "A Story Even Toriyama's Unyielding Editor Praised!" See, I was against the idea of bringing Freeza back in the first place. It just didn't seem like a good idea to me. Surely it was just going to be a superficial cash grab, beating a dead horse, milking a cash cow, pointlessly reviving a character who already had one of the most satisfying exits the franchise has ever produced. I'd say the only one that was better was Bardock, but they fucked up that too and for the same fanservice-y reasons. But then I saw the above statements, and I thought to myself, "Hey, maybe they really do have a story good enough to justify this kind of idea. Maybe they really do something creative with the Dragon Balls. Maybe there really is a good reason this has to be about Freeza."

No. None of that is true. As for the former statement, I think I summed it up best on my Twitter that if they were being honest, a more accurate tagline than "The Worst Wish in History" would have been "A Slightly Inconvenient Afternoon". As for the latter statement, I still stand by the question I've always asked: "WHAT STORY?!" How in the world could Torishima possibly praise a story that didn't exist? It's one of the world's great mysteries because Resurrection 'F' is as close to a story as Bacterian is to a shower. It may have heard of a story. It may know what a story is. But it sure as hell wants nothing to do with one. It wants me to accept that Freeza coming back is supposed to be a scary bad big deal, but it doesn't want to do the legwork to convince me of that. It just expects me to swoon over the premise so much that I don't question the details, the fact that nothing happens, the fact that there's nothing to care about in this movie. And that insults me on such a visceral level. Because this movie could have been great. But that would have required effort. And why expend effort when people are going to lap it up just because a popular character is back for 45 minutes?

I've said this (probably in this thread) before, and it probably stands as the most unpopular opinion of all, but I have more respect for Dragon Ball Evolution than I do for this piece of crap. Because Evolution may have had no clue what Dragon Ball was about, but at least it was TRYING to be about SOMETHING! At least there was some small sign that people put effort into it. At least it told a story with a defined beginning, middle, and end with characters that have specific goals and journeys and obstacles to overcome. At least it managed to occupy two hours of my life without me wanting to walk out due to pure apathy.
Because lets be honest Freeza coming back, training for four months, to becoming god tier, and also unlocking a tacky golden form(foreshadow?), while fighting blue haired Goku. That's stupid you know man, but its equally as stupid as man with no eye brows, and long hair, vs small pink child like blob, or even spiky, electric haired, child V perfect bug man.
There's nothing wrong with a ridiculous premise. As has been stated here and in the fanservice thread, it's what you do with it, its execution, that matters. And the difference between F and the examples you list is that all of the rest of those ridiculous ideas were attached to stories. As I said above, bringing Freeza back *could* have been done with creativity. It could have had a point. They chose not to. Yeah, if I had to sit through a movie where the only idea was bringing in a man with no eyebrows and long hair so he could fight for 45 minutes, that would be pretty terrible too. But that's not what happens in the Boo Arc. And while I have plenty of criticisms of elements of Dragon Ball's storytelling over the years, it's always given me storytelling to evaluate. Until this stinker.

But allow me to conclude by making it clear that I'm glad you found enjoyment in it. Your personal tastes are free to be whatever you want them to be. I completely and totally respect that. If this post comes across as incredibly vitriolic, it's only because I loathe this movie so much that I honestly cannot talk about it without getting angry. I hate it, and I hate everything it represents.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Soppa Saia People » Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:32 am

Jinzoningen MULE wrote:I used to call people lazy for this one, maybe I've switched my position because I'm lazy, but this one is sure to be unpopular:

I'm growing to not like subtitled Dragon Ball. That said, I don't particularly like any of the dubs that much either, but something about watching it the way I used too completely kills my mood. That said, I still love the manga as much as ever, and we're getting a bunch of new dubs on TV, so I'll manage.
I'm the same. I still like the sub, but it's not something I'll go out of my way to watch.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Doctor. » Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:45 am

Gaffer Tape wrote:I've said this (probably in this thread) before, and it probably stands as the most unpopular opinion of all, but I have more respect for Dragon Ball Evolution than I do for this piece of crap. Because Evolution may have had no clue what Dragon Ball was about, but at least it was TRYING to be about SOMETHING! At least there was some small sign that people put effort into it. At least it told a story with a defined beginning, middle, and end with characters that have specific goals and journeys and obstacles to overcome. At least it managed to occupy two hours of my life without me wanting to walk out due to pure apathy.
Honestly, both are incredibly insulting to any Dragon Ball fan. The only differences are that Evolution is somehow a better-written film and that the fanbase ate up Res 'F' like a homeless man being served a full-course meal. I'd probably say Res 'F' is the most insulting Dragon Ball product ever put out (beating even Episode of Bardock) simply due to the fact that there was seemingly no effort put into the movie at all, especially being a sequel to BoG.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Esfír Dedragón » Tue Jan 17, 2017 2:16 am

Doctor. wrote:
Gaffer Tape wrote:I've said this (probably in this thread) before, and it probably stands as the most unpopular opinion of all, but I have more respect for Dragon Ball Evolution than I do for this piece of crap. Because Evolution may have had no clue what Dragon Ball was about, but at least it was TRYING to be about SOMETHING! At least there was some small sign that people put effort into it. At least it told a story with a defined beginning, middle, and end with characters that have specific goals and journeys and obstacles to overcome. At least it managed to occupy two hours of my life without me wanting to walk out due to pure apathy.
Honestly, both are incredibly insulting to any Dragon Ball fan. The only differences are that Evolution is somehow a better-written film and that the fanbase ate up Res 'F' like a homeless man being served a full-course meal. I'd probably say Res 'F' is the most insulting Dragon Ball product ever put out (beating even Episode of Bardock) simply due to the fact that there was seemingly no effort put into the movie at all, especially being a sequel to BoG.
Hmm... I'd include Dragon Ball Minus alongside Episode of Bardock.

The 2008 Special, while problematic in saying that Vegeta has a brother (He doesn't in my reality :P ), was forgettable but fun to watch. I like to think of it as one big slice of life episode filler. Extra kin was annoying, but not the biggest retcon to have come out of the franchise.

Speaking of DBE, I wonder if the inclusion of Mai in the movie compelled Toriyama to include her in Super. If so, I have even more reason to despise the makers of that movie.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Cetra » Tue Jan 17, 2017 2:29 am

Esfír Dedragón wrote:If so, I have even more reason to despise the makers of that movie.
How so? Did you think Mai was not that good in Super? I think Alternate Mai was fantastic.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Gog » Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:32 am

Gaffer Tape wrote: But allow me to conclude by making it clear that I'm glad you found enjoyment in it. Your personal tastes are free to be whatever you want them to be. I completely and totally respect that. If this post comes across as incredibly vitriolic, it's only because I loathe this movie so much that I honestly cannot talk about it without getting angry. I hate it, and I hate everything it represents.
Thanks Gaffer tape! Honestly I was originally going to write up this big sarcastic and snarky post, but then I read what you wrote, and I had almost no problem with it, with my favorite part being this one I'm replieing to. At the end of it all where you basically said that even though you hated it, and I and the majority enjoyed it, greatly. You were still kind and respectable enough to, accept that this is my opinion, and I'll do the same for you.

Did I mention almost?



And this is the almost. I have no words I genially am speechless, but it doesn't affect my speech as I'm typing, okay end of jokes. Now for the great evolution V Resurrection of F debate. First thing's first I'm going to have to break everything your stating down into bite sized chunks.
Gaffer Tape wrote: I've said this (probably in this thread) before, and it probably stands as the most unpopular opinion of all, but I have more respect for Dragon Ball Evolution than I do for this piece of crap.
And were all sitting here, with our mouths all collectively agape at how such a thing could ever be uttered. Because I do not truly believe that you know what your talking about. I. Just. Don't.
Gaffer Tape wrote: Because Evolution may have had no clue what Dragon Ball was about, but at least it was TRYING to be about SOMETHING! At least there was some small sign that people put effort into it.

There was no effort put into dragon ball evolution, I have watched the movie, and I have never watched something rivaling the trivial, trite, boring cringy garbage, that had managed to surpass the Cell Saga in its terrible awfulness. This is a man who has watched After Earth, and didn't fall asleep. Their was no effort put into Evolution. Honestly comparing the amount of effort put into Fukkatsu No F, and Evolution is the equivalent of comparing a micro organism, to the sun, on Steroids.
Gaffer Tape wrote: At least it told a story with a defined beginning, middle, and end with characters that have specific goals and journeys and obstacles to overcome. At least it managed to occupy two hours of my life without me wanting to walk out due to pure apathy.
That was the same with ROF, and at the very least the characters in Fukkatsu No F, weren't butchered and raped cardboard cutouts, masquerading as actors, pretending to be 'GEIKO', or 'MILK UDDERS'. It also doesn't matter if those goals and journeys are garbage.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Bansho64 » Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:19 am

Alright, this is more of an unpopular one on here, from what I've seen recently.

I think both battle powers and multipliers are cool and I think that it was great that they were introduced in the franchise. I think it would be awesome if they were used more. I also think the hate of anything and anyone involved with them is unnecessary and kinda mean.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Dbzfan94 » Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:27 am

Bansho64 wrote:Alright, this is more of an unpopular one on here, from what I've seen recently.

I think both battle powers and multipliers are cool and I think that it was great that they were introduced in the franchise. I think it would be awesome if they were used more. I also think the hate of anything and anyone involved with them is unnecessary and kinda mean.
Yeah I agree

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Noah » Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:44 am

SaiyanGod117 wrote:I agree, but this isn't really a unpopular opinion.
Oh, that was just my opinion on the past subject, but let's go:

1. It's hard to choose the best fight in all Dragonball, but I could say I like a lot 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai: Goku vs. Tenshinhan
2. I think it's lame that Goku never faced Commander Red
3. The Red Ribbon Army shouldn't have been destroyed so easily, it would be nice to the others help Goku in this quest
4. I actually kinda like Chichi, but hated what the anime did to her
5. Piccolo turning into a good person was kinda cheap for me, we could see more development in that
6. Third Form Freeza is actually my favorite
7. Yamcha should not fall for Dr. Gero so easily
8. Loved Cell design on his Imperfect form
9. Had a weird boner when he absorbed #18
10. Actually liked Super Boo persona when he absorbed Piccolo and the others
11. Never liked Vegetto much, I prefer Gogeta
12. Super Vegetto vs. Boo-han was the worst fight in all Dragonball
13. The anime had a lot of things better than in the manga
14. I don't consider anything that came after 2008 in my headcanon, but I still follow just for my personal interest in the franchise in general
15. Super is the same tier of GT for me, even though GT was better in characterization and power scalation, Super just have better plots.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by ABED » Tue Jan 17, 2017 10:20 am

Noah wrote:5. Piccolo turning into a good person was kinda cheap for me, we could see more development in that
Interesting. Care to elaborate?
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Noah » Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:27 am

ABED wrote:
Noah wrote:5. Piccolo turning into a good person was kinda cheap for me, we could see more development in that
Interesting. Care to elaborate?
Sure. From the manga perspective it was all pretty rushed: we saw Daimao spiting an egg containing his child and reincarnation that is supposed to be as much as evil as himself, later then he's all grown up and ready get revenge from the man that killed his "father", had a great battle but was ultimately defeated and choose to retire to have a better chance next time. 5 years have passed and we don't know what happened to Piccolo in this period, what he did? What made his change of heart possible? Before interacting with Gohan, Kami already states that Piccolo is not the same as before, because Raditz didn't perished in the Afterlife after being killed by a Mazoku (something like that) back to Gohan, I was interested in Piccolo intentions to have him as a apprentice, he probably could use mind games to turn him against Goku! Anyway back to the focus he gave him apples, but that don't mean he cared about him, just that he wanted him to survive for his own purposes and after then we didn't saw much of their relationship to assume Piccolo would sacrifice himself to save the son of his archenemy. I never liked that he turn into a good guy because of circunstances (having to battle along the others against the Saiyans, Freeza and Androids), he could still be somewhat "evil" and distant. I like his rant after the beating they took from the androids, saying to the others to not get much excited as they are not friends and he still plans to rule the world, sadly this as just a mask he wore to hide the fact that he indeed turned into a good person. After Piccolo fuse with Kami, his character was finished for me.

I give props to the anime for trying to do little more with his character, we have some scenes of his early days, he encounters a family celebrating the birthday of a young boy. During the celebration, Piccolo vandalizes their home and then runs away, depicting his lonely self and lack of affection. He saves a boy from being crushed by a rock using his eye laser in the very day of the subscriptions to the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai, depicting he's not as evil as Daimao, and what I could say about the fillers in the Saiyan arc? Those were great IMO cause it had more development for both characters (Gohan and Piccolo) and their relationship than in the manga, making his suddenly change of heart more plausible, even though I think he could still be sorta of a antihero after that or something, but that's just me lol
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Ki Breaker » Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:46 am

Toie has no idea how to keep Dragonball, well, Dragonball..
All these GAMBARE, friendship power and run of the mill anime stuff holds no place in Dragonball for me..

Let me elaborate of friendship power a little, the way it was done in Z while Krillin died feels natural, the way it was done in trunks arc was shitty, real goopy smelly piece of shit..

His spirit sword also cut my experience for the arc
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Noah » Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:50 am

Ki Breaker wrote:His spirit sword also cut my experience for the arc
I still waiting for someone to make a thread of how this arc had the worst ending of all arcs in the series.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by LuckyCat » Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:08 pm

Noah wrote:
Ki Breaker wrote:His spirit sword also cut my experience for the arc
I still waiting for someone to make a thread of how this arc had the worst ending of all arcs in the series.
I don't even mind the Ki blade made with the Deus Ex Power of Friendship, but it's still a very messy ending. Mainly because the timeline that Goku & Co. worked so hard to save was destroyed within a matter of seconds.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Cetra » Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:14 pm

LuckyCat wrote:
Noah wrote:
Ki Breaker wrote:His spirit sword also cut my experience for the arc
I still waiting for someone to make a thread of how this arc had the worst ending of all arcs in the series.
I don't even mind the Ki blade made with the Deus Ex Power of Friendship, but it's still a very messy ending. Mainly because the timeline that Goku & Co. worked so hard to save was destroyed within a matter of seconds.
I also pity that but at the same time there is one thing I also see:

"You can have everything you want but it'll cost you"
=> Wanna defeat someone you cannot defeat? Sure. Pay the price: The universe - which even is the villain in this case.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by ABED » Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:02 pm

Noah wrote:
ABED wrote:
Noah wrote:5. Piccolo turning into a good person was kinda cheap for me, we could see more development in that
Interesting. Care to elaborate?
Sure. From the manga perspective it was all pretty rushed: we saw Daimao spiting an egg containing his child and reincarnation that is supposed to be as much as evil as himself, later then he's all grown up and ready get revenge from the man that killed his "father", had a great battle but was ultimately defeated and choose to retire to have a better chance next time. 5 years have passed and we don't know what happened to Piccolo in this period, what he did? What made his change of heart possible? Before interacting with Gohan, Kami already states that Piccolo is not the same as before, because Raditz didn't perished in the Afterlife after being killed by a Mazoku (something like that) back to Gohan, I was interested in Piccolo intentions to have him as a apprentice, he probably could use mind games to turn him against Goku! Anyway back to the focus he gave him apples, but that don't mean he cared about him, just that he wanted him to survive for his own purposes and after then we didn't saw much of their relationship to assume Piccolo would sacrifice himself to save the son of his archenemy. I never liked that he turn into a good guy because of circunstances (having to battle along the others against the Saiyans, Freeza and Androids), he could still be somewhat "evil" and distant. I like his rant after the beating they took from the androids, saying to the others to not get much excited as they are not friends and he still plans to rule the world, sadly this as just a mask he wore to hide the fact that he indeed turned into a good person. After Piccolo fuse with Kami, his character was finished for me.

I give props to the anime for trying to do little more with his character, we have some scenes of his early days, he encounters a family celebrating the birthday of a young boy. During the celebration, Piccolo vandalizes their home and then runs away, depicting his lonely self and lack of affection. He saves a boy from being crushed by a rock using his eye laser in the very day of the subscriptions to the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai, depicting he's not as evil as Daimao, and what I could say about the fillers in the Saiyan arc? Those were great IMO cause it had more development for both characters (Gohan and Piccolo) and their relationship than in the manga, making his suddenly change of heart more plausible, even though I think he could still be sorta of a antihero after that or something, but that's just me lol
Fair points, but with the apple, it wasn't a radical shift but it's one of the first steps in his journey. Over the course of that year, he's still angry, but Gohan's innocence does open his heart. I like that we see enough that it makes sense that Piccolo would give his life to save Gohan, but not so much that it would telegraph Piccolo's decision. One of my favorite moments is seconds before he steps in front of the blast, we see a small flashback to a moment we never saw before. When Gohan fell asleep after a day of training, Piccolo brushes his hair back.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Noah » Tue Jan 17, 2017 2:16 pm

LuckyCat wrote:I don't even mind the Ki blade made with the Deus Ex Power of Friendship, but it's still a very messy ending. Mainly because the timeline that Goku & Co. worked so hard to save was destroyed within a matter of seconds.
I don't mind either, ignoring the screwed power scale, but the ending is just bad. Nothing was acomplished in the end, all that fighting for protect Future Trunks timeline was lead to its own destruction and to awkwardly live in a copy world with the doppelgangers of he and his girlfriend, a solution Whis took from his butt. So Trunks ended way worse then when he returned to his timeline after the defeat of Cell.

Hope people don't come at me "so you wanted the cliché happy ending", no I wanted a good ending, why was that difficult to end it with him killing Zamasu for good? Why that clusterf*** planetary contamination? A lame issue to have Zeno show his "awaited involvement" in the arc? To the hell with that!
ABED wrote:Fair points, but with the apple, it wasn't a radical shift but it's one of the first steps in his journey. Over the course of that year, he's still angry, but Gohan's innocence does open his heart. I like that we see enough that it makes sense that Piccolo would give his life to save Gohan, but not so much that it would telegraph Piccolo's decision. One of my favorite moments is seconds before he steps in front of the blast, we see a small flashback to a moment we never saw before. When Gohan fell asleep after a day of training, Piccolo brushes his hair back.
Good point too, I think one of the main reasons this scene is outstanding it's because of the surprise, I did not expect Piccolo to do that, it's revelead to the audience that he had a bond with Gohan after all and I forgot about that scene (bold), it was very emotional to me.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Doctor. » Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:14 pm

Interestingly enough, future Trunks was poorly developed in the manga whilst the opposite is true in DBS.

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