Unpopular DB opinions

[ABED]

It's not stated, it's shown. Freeza is obviously at the head because he far and away has the most power. Then there are Freeza's lieutenants like Zarbon and Dodoria who are a far and above the rank and file. The Saiyans were looked down on by everyone because they weren't as strong as fighters like Zarbon and Dodoria. Not everything has to be stated.

I don't know what your point is regarding the weak soldiers. He has need of pawns. He doesn't exclude weaklings from his army, they just aren't high up on the ladder.

And what does Tagoma's timidness have to do with his position or Zarbon and Dodoria's?

Dragon Ball is a show about fighting and power is a HUGE part of that equation.

[Forte224]

It's not stated, it's shown. Freeza is obviously at the head because he far and away has the most power. Then there are Freeza's lieutenants like Zarbon and Dodoria who are a far and above the rank and file. The Saiyans were looked down on by everyone because they weren't as strong as fighters like Zarbon and Dodoria. Not everything has to be stated.

I don't know what your point is regarding the weak soldiers. He has need of pawns. He doesn't exclude weaklings from his army, they just aren't high up on the ladder.

And what does Tagoma's timidness have to do with his position or Zarbon and Dodoria's?

Dragon Ball is a show about fighting and power is a HUGE part of that equation.

His timidness has everything to do with it. Freeza didn't question his equality to them until he showed timidness. That's what made Freeza question it, his attitude. Nothing to do with his power level. And that's not assumptions or context, it's literally how the scene played out in Super.

[ABED]

Perhaps because he thought he wasn't strong due to his timidness. How does his disposition have anything to do with the hierarchy in Freeza's empire?

For the record, I'm talking purely about the movie.

[Forte224]

Perhaps because he thought he wasn't strong due to his timidness. How does his disposition have anything to do with the hierarchy in Freeza's empire?

For the record, I'm talking purely about the movie.

No, that's literally not it. He mentions how they've gotten soft, in the movie and the show, not weak. Vegeta called Goku soft on Namek despite him being able to humiliate the Ginyu Force.

[ABED]

What does this have to do with his position within Freeza's empire in comparison to Zarbon and Dodoria?

[Forte224]

What does this have to do with his position within Freeza's empire in comparison to Zarbon and Dodoria?

Soft doesn't equate to fighting power, nor does being a warrior. Vegeta was a greater warrior when he came to earth than Gohan ever was in the entire series, despite all his power ups.

And Tagoma's position in Freeza's army clearly labels him as one of the strongest, but nothing is mentioned about his fighting power, just that he's a warrior, of which there is a clear distinction throughout the series.

[ABED]

What do you think him saying he's on the same level as Zarbon/Dodoria was about? Do they need to beat you over the head with the text? It's not even subtext. It's clear what the line means. Same level doesn't have anything to do with how timid they are.

I think the line uses the word level, but that's an odd word to use if talking about their disposition. It would be nice to have the exact line.

[Dbzk1999]

^ Alright, I vaguely remember that now. Still, Piccolo should've had no problems at all when it came time for dealing with Shisami if it's been explicitly stated that he was around Zarbon/Dodoria level, even if he (Piccolo) had been "holding back" considerably.

I don't seek out much in the way of power levels during the story, but there have been times that consistencies were clearly thrown out the window to serve the plot (more a problem with Super than anything). It can drastically affect the believability of a given scenario when it's so obvious how nonsensical it is. There certainly wasn't a good enough explanation to cover up how they got so strong, even with the 4 months that were given to them, imo.

Eh, if it means anything, Piccolo vs Shisami is only in the movie, in Super, he fights base Gohan, and even then, it seemed implied that Gohan could’ve taken him out in base once he started powering up further before Tagoma cheapshotted them both.

[Forte224]

What do you think him saying he's on the same level as Zarbon/Dodoria was about? Do they need to beat you over the head with the text? It's not even subtext. It's clear what the line means. Same level doesn't have anything to do with how timid they are.

I think the line uses the word level, but that's an odd word to use if talking about their disposition. It would be nice to have the exact line.

I'm literally telling you the line in Super links their timidness with Freeza's questioning of their equality to them. It's not subtext, it's literal text, in your face. In Japanese Super, Sorbet says Tagoma is a warrior as excellent as Zarbon and Dodoria. Later in the scene, when Freeza wants to attack the Saiyans on earth, Tagoma suggests otherwise due to their massive increase in strength. Freeza then shoots him in the leg and says: "You say Zarbon san and Dodoria san rival you? The Freeza army seems to have all turned into cowards while I was gone." Nothing about the context here reveals power level. He calls into question his equality to them based on his cowardess.

Say what you want about only referring to the movie line, but didn't you say that movie line is part of the reason you're not watching Super, when Super in fact has expanded on the line and made things more clear?

[Puaru]

Gohan did NOT make a comeback during the ToP, it is in fact the exact opposite. The ToP confirmed once and for all that Gohan SUCKS because it was the first time in decades that he even played a notable part in a storyline, and where the narrative hyped him up as "returing to form" or some shit, and yet he was STILL weak (compared to important characters) and he STILL did nothing important AT ALL. This confirms how little anyone involved with DB cares about Gohan since even his "return" amounted to NOTHING. He was weaker than dogshit and he had no cool moments whatsoever. Going out like a punk against Dyspo who himself has the strenght of a twig (all he has sis speed) is not interesting or impressive.

Gohan sucks and will continue to suck forver, and I really mean that. I have been waiting for years for Gohan to do something cool again but it is never going to happen. It sucks to be anticipating and hoiping for something for years and years and it just never happens.
There is a scene from Beavis and Butthead that explains how I feel about Gohan becoming good again. Just listen to it and replace "gonna score" with "Gohan making a comeback":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rHNKx8bwIM

[ABED]

but didn't you say that movie line is part of the reason you're not watching Super, when Super in fact has expanded on the line and made things more clear?

No, the movie line has nothing to do with the reasons why I'm not watching Super.

Sorbet's line when he says Shisame is a warrior on the same level as Zarbon and Dodoria. That has nothing do with their disposition. If it were, the writer wouldn't have chosen the word "level" because what does level have to do with their personality? What do you think Freeza was referring to when he uses the word "rival"? Rival in terms of what? ANd you are confusing the characters. I'm not talking about Tagoma.

[Forte224]

but didn't you say that movie line is part of the reason you're not watching Super, when Super in fact has expanded on the line and made things more clear?

No, the movie line has nothing to do with the reasons why I'm not watching Super.

Sorbet's line when he says Shisame is a warrior on the same level as Zarbon and Dodoria. That has nothing do with their disposition. If it were, the writer wouldn't have chosen the word "level" because what does level have to do with their personality? What do you think Freeza was referring to when he uses the word "rival"? Rival in terms of what? ANd you are confusing the characters. I'm not talking about Tagoma.

I know you're not. My point is, most of this is remedied in Super. The word "level" is never used, Shisami isn't included with Tagoma as equal, and it's implied Gohan would've beaten Shisami had a real fight had happened but Tagoma cheap shot them from behind. But I thought this was all part of your reasoning of not watching Super, which is why I was bringing Super into it.

[ABED]

What exactly is the line IN THE MOVIE? Regardless of the actual word used, the scene I'm referring to is unquestionably not referring to Zarbon or Dodoria's personalities.

As best as I can tell Freeza's line was saying "oh, so you're the same rank as Zarbon and Dodoria? At least they weren't cowards." The ranks in Freeza's army are clearly a function of their power.

[Forte224]

What exactly is the line IN THE MOVIE? Regardless of the actual word used, the scene I'm referring to is unquestionably not referring to Zarbon or Dodoria's personalities.

I don't have the movie on a streaming service like the episode to check and I'm away from home. Either way, I know the dub portrays it ever so slightly different than the sub in the movie so if you look it up I recommend doing the sub. The show is a lot more open ended and very much refers to his character, based on Freeza's reaction and dialogue.

[ABED]

What exactly is the line IN THE MOVIE? Regardless of the actual word used, the scene I'm referring to is unquestionably not referring to Zarbon or Dodoria's personalities.

I don't have the movie on a streaming service like the episode to check and I'm away from home. Either way, I know the dub portrays it ever so slightly different than the sub in the movie so if you look it up I recommend doing the sub. The show is a lot more open ended and very much refers to his character, based on Freeza's reaction and dialogue.

But it seems what you are implying is their personalities had something to do with their ranks.

[Forte224]

What exactly is the line IN THE MOVIE? Regardless of the actual word used, the scene I'm referring to is unquestionably not referring to Zarbon or Dodoria's personalities.

I don't have the movie on a streaming service like the episode to check and I'm away from home. Either way, I know the dub portrays it ever so slightly different than the sub in the movie so if you look it up I recommend doing the sub. The show is a lot more open ended and very much refers to his character, based on Freeza's reaction and dialogue.

But it seems what you are implying is their personalities had something to do with their ranks.

No, I'm sure Tagoma and Sorbet were the most powerful of the force in Super and add Shisami in the mix when referring to the movie. But their equality to Zarbon and Dodoria...well, I've already explained that.

[ABED]

Equal in terms of what? I'm looking for a short one sentence answer. You may have explained, but it's not clear.

[Forte224]

Equal in terms of what? I'm looking for a short one sentence answer. You may have explained, but it's not clear.

In terms of their character, which Freeza calls into question when Tagoma acts cowardly at fighting the Saiyans. All in Super, the movie I can't explain.

2 sentences.

[SingleFringe&Sparks]

Gohan did NOT make a comeback during the ToP, it is in fact the exact opposite.

I agree they completely dropped the ball on Gohan for the TOP. I don't understand what was so noble about 17, choosing life over a boat. How hi-tech does a boat have to be to require the Super Dragonballs? Its hard not to laugh at how ridiculous that whole thing is.

[Puaru]

Gohan did NOT make a comeback during the ToP, it is in fact the exact opposite.

I agree they completely dropped the ball on Gohan for the TOP. I don't understand what was so noble about 17, choosing life over a boat. How hi-tech does a boat have to be to require the Super Dragonballs? Its hard not to laugh at how ridiculous that whole thing is.

Exactly. Gohan should have been important instead of 17. Dumb-ass 17 shows up for the first time in decades and gets to do more badass stuff and be STRONGER than Gohan. That sucks, 17 sucks, and Gohan sucks. Gohan sucks because he didn't get to be cool, and 17 seriously fucking sucks because he got to be cool instead of Gohan. I wish we never see 17 again. He looks like a sex doll made for 13 year old girls.