Unpopular DB opinions

[ABED]

The badass label wasn't given to him by Toriyama. That's something the fans gave him. Ever think Toriyama's point wasn't that he's a badass, but that Vegeta is an arrogant prick?

[Neo-Makaiōshin]

Sarcastic or not the point still stands, DB & DBZ are retellings of already existing material that the audience knew beforehand, just like the first two arcs of SUPER.

[Cure Dragon 255]

That makes no sense. They're two totally different things.

As Grimlock put it, both are adaptations of material we (the audience) have seen beforehand (most prevalent complaint againts the retellings in SUPER).

No, no es solo eso, es que Super es material animado que es reanimado de manera pobre para ser rejurjitado para las masas. La gente se muere por ver el manga de Toriyama adaptado por PRIMERA VEZ. Te aseguro que igual habria quejas si el anime que adapta el manga fuera reanimado.

[Dbzfan94]

Sarcastic or not the point still stands, DB & DBZ are retellings of already existing material that the audience knew beforehand, just like the first two arcs of SUPER.

If you're going to reply to me than quote me. Adapting a manga into an anime for the first time, and regurgitating two movies that just came out 1-2 years before hand in a worse way is not the same thing.
By your logic 99% of anime shouldnt exist cause theres already a manga.

[Neo-Makaiōshin]

If you're going to reply to me than quote me. Adapting a manga into an anime for the first time, and regurgitating two movies that just came out 1-2 years before hand in a worse way is not the same thing.
By your logic 99% of anime shouldnt exist cause theres already a manga.

First time or not it's still a regurgitation of a manga that came out less than two years beforehand (manga in Nov'84 and anime in Feb'86). Not sure how you arrived to that conclusion when none of my previous posts said or implied that most of the anime shouldn't exist just because there's a source material? Great job at putting words in my mouth.

[jeffbr92]

No, he's right. What you said makes no sense as most animes are adaptations from the original source (manga) calling them retellings is wrong

[Lord Beerus]

I think the Baby arc (GT) is far better than the Cell arc.

[ABED]

Sarcastic or not the point still stands, DB & DBZ are retellings of already existing material that the audience knew beforehand, just like the first two arcs of SUPER.

Not everyone who watched the anime also read the manga.

[Doctor.]

I think the Baby arc (GT) is far better than the Cell arc.

Mind explaining why?

[Neo-Makaiōshin]

Sarcastic or not the point still stands, DB & DBZ are retellings of already existing material that the audience knew beforehand, just like the first two arcs of SUPER.

Not everyone who watched the anime also read the manga.

Then it's fair to say that not everyone who watched (the first two arcs) DBSuper also watched the Battle of Gods and Ressurection F movies.

[ABED]

Sarcastic or not the point still stands, DB & DBZ are retellings of already existing material that the audience knew beforehand, just like the first two arcs of SUPER.

Not everyone who watched the anime also read the manga.

Then it's fair to say that not everyone who watched (the first two arcs) DBSuper also watched the Battle of Gods and Ressurection F movies.

True, but the manga is a completely different medium.

[Lord Beerus]

I think the Baby arc (GT) is far better than the Cell arc.

Mind explaining why?

I just find the Baby arc to be a much better structured story overall. Not to mention it had introduction of second best transformation in all of Dragon Ball (Super Saiyan 4), a wonderful character moment from Majin Boo that severed a great conclusion for his character arc and actually lead to something important for another character, Baby was really good villain and the lore in arc was a great addition to Dragon Ball's overall narrative. It's not a perfect arc by any stretch but it's a good arc from start to finish. The Cell arc, in my opinion, is horrendous for many reasons. But the saddest thing about the Cell arc is that the setup for it was the best setup for any arc in the history of Dragon Ball... and then the narrative just implodes after that.

[ekrolo2]

I think the Baby arc (GT) is far better than the Cell arc.

Mind explaining why?

It doesn't have time travel. That alone makes it leagues better.

[Doctor.]

I think the Baby arc (GT) is far better than the Cell arc.

Mind explaining why?

I just find the Baby arc to be a much better structured story overall. Not to mention it had introduction of second best transformation in all of Dragon Ball (Super Saiyan 4), a wonderful character moment from Majin Boo that severed a great conclusion for his character arc and actually lead to something important for another character, Baby was really good villain and the lore in arc was a great addition to Dragon Ball's overall narrative. It's not a perfect arc by any stretch but it's a good arc from start to finish. The Cell arc, in my opinion, is horrendous for many reasons. But the saddest thing about the Cell arc is that the setup for it was the best setup for any arc in the history of Dragon Ball... and then the narrative just implodes after that.

What do you consider the Baby arc? Are you counting the first 15 episodes of GT as the Baby arc too? If so, I don't think you can call it a better structured story.

You think Super Saiyan 4's transformation sequence was better executed than Super Saiyan 2's? I don't think Majin Boo and Oob's fusion really amounted to anything,s o it's not really a good character moment in my book. Plus, isn't it just Piccolo and Kami's fusion done worse? Piccolo actually had a character arc throughout all of Z, Boo was forgotten for the rest of GT until they needed to boost Oob up.

I think the Baby arc (GT) is far better than the Cell arc.

Mind explaining why?

It doesn't have time travel. That alone makes it leagues better.

The Cell arc has some of the least time travel-related problems that I've seen in fiction, though. It's actually one of the better time travel stories.

[ekrolo2]

Mind explaining why?

It doesn't have time travel. That alone makes it leagues better.

The Cell arc has some of the least time travel-related problems that I've seen in fiction, though. It's actually one of the better time travel stories.

It's fine until Toriyama creates two extra timelines, one of which we never see and two completely separate future time lines that somehow exist to for whatever reason. Never mind the fact the future time line doesn't even make sense as its own universe since I REALLY doubt the future warriors would just sit back and do dick all while the Earth goes to hell when they've got King Kai and New Namek around to fix things.

[Doctor.]

It doesn't have time travel. That alone makes it leagues better.

The Cell arc has some of the least time travel-related problems that I've seen in fiction, though. It's actually one of the better time travel stories.

It's fine until Toriyama creates two extra timelines, one of which we never see and two completely separate future time lines that somehow exist to for whatever reason. Never mind the fact the future time line doesn't even make sense as its own universe since I REALLY doubt the future warriors would just sit back and do dick all while the Earth goes to hell when they've got King Kai and New Namek around to fix things.

Yes, the future timeline doesn't really work but that not specifically because of the time travel; it's just poor planning on Toriyama's part. If he provided an excuse as to why Kaio didn't help, it would be fine. I don't really have a problem not seeing the other timelines. The time travel has some plot holes in regards to Cell's explanation of where he came from, but it's actually fairly decent is what I'm saying. The arc has plenty of other problems, but the time travel is solid in comparison.

[Lord Beerus]

Mind explaining why?

I just find the Baby arc to be a much better structured story overall. Not to mention it had introduction of second best transformation in all of Dragon Ball (Super Saiyan 4), a wonderful character moment from Majin Boo that severed a great conclusion for his character arc and actually lead to something important for another character, Baby was really good villain and the lore in arc was a great addition to Dragon Ball's overall narrative. It's not a perfect arc by any stretch but it's a good arc from start to finish. The Cell arc, in my opinion, is horrendous for many reasons. But the saddest thing about the Cell arc is that the setup for it was the best setup for any arc in the history of Dragon Ball... and then the narrative just implodes after that.

What do you consider the Baby arc? Are you counting the first 15 episodes of GT as the Baby arc too? If so, I don't think you can call it a better structured story.

You think Super Saiyan 4's transformation sequence was better executed than Super Saiyan 2's? I don't think Majin Boo and Oob's fusion really amounted to anything,s o it's not really a good character moment in my book. Plus, isn't it just Piccolo and Kami's fusion done worse? Piccolo actually had a character arc throughout all of Z, Boo was forgotten for the rest of GT until they needed to boost Oob up.

I'm not counting the first 15 episodes of GT. For me, the Baby arc begins with Episode 16. And yes, I find the arc better laid out story than the Cell arc. It's far less confusing, not needlessly bloated and has more satisfying endgames for some of the supporting cast. And the SSJ4 transformation, I feel, was better executed than the initial SSJ2 debut in the Cell arc.

[Zephyr]

I don't see how the first 15 episodes are able to stand on their own as a distinct and separate arc, which they would have to do in order for 16-40 to stand on their own as a distinct and separate arc. The conflict of the former "arc" is that the Earth is going to explode if they don't return the Dragon Balls in time. That former arc is never concluded before the Baby arc begins. We don't see the resolution of one followed by the beginning of another.

It would be like considering Namek and Freeza to be two distinct arcs, despite the Namek arc's conflict of reviving Yamcha, Tenshinhan, Chaozu, and Piccolo not being resolved before moving into the Freeza arc; Freeza's army beats the protagonists to the planet in the first place. It would be like considering the Artificial Humans and Cell to be two distinct arcs, despite the former's conflict about saving the past from the Red Ribbon Army's deranged creations not being resolved before Cell shows up; Piccolo still fights #17 after Cell had already been introduced and established. And in GT, Giru, Dolltaki, Mutchy, and Luud were all part of Myuu's scheme the whole time; arriving on M2 isn't in any way a clear narrative break.

Even if we (tentatively) gut the Baby arc's setup and compare its second two thirds to the whole Cell arc, it's not like the Cell arc doesn't also have wonderful character moments that bear consequences for others, good villains, lore expansion, and an overall net positive addition to the narrative. The Cell arc certainly has problems, one of them being that it drags in certain areas. The Baby arc also drags: like in that first third that we tentatively gutted, for ultimately no good reason. The Cell arc suffers from certain characters being uncharacteristically stupid at times, but the Baby arc is no stranger to that either: like when Goten and Trunks express interest in fusing, and Goku simply tells them not to bother. Why not use all the help you can? I understand Goku might want to fight alone, as a martial artist's pride kind of thing, but his reasoning is that it wouldn't matter, not that he wants to fight Baby alone.

[ABED]

I would consider the Luud arc as part of the Baby arc since it introduces Dr. Mu.

I don't think I would consider the first few episodes a full arc, but I also wouldn't consider them part of the Baby arc. Not sure what I would call it, if anything.

[Zephyr]

Honestly, I wouldn't call anything the Baby arc. Baby is simply a large part of the Black Star Dragon Balls arc. The same way Freeza is part of the Namek arc, or Cell a part of the Artificial Humans arc.

I know that's all semantics, but the first few episodes of GT definitely set up, and are a part of, the arc that isn't concluded until after Baby is killed, the Earth blows up, Piccolo stays dead, and the Earth is subsequently restored. That's when the wish that prompts them to go into space and encounter Baby, and later destroys the planet, is made in the first place.