Unpopular DB opinions

[ABED]

Point taken, but DB arcs are generally named after the central antagonist.

I'm aware, but something being more widespread doesn't necessarily make it the most apt or sensible.

But, again, it's not that huge a deal; I use Namek and Freeza interchangeably all the time for the arc name, in actual everyday usage (same with Androids/Cell).

I don't think calling it the Freeza arc is insensible or unapt, but point taken.

[ekrolo2]

I don't need dub voice actors to sound like the Japanese cast, might as well just put out the subbed version only instead of wasting time on English imitations of Nozawa or Nakao.

[Doctor.]

I don't need dub voice actors to sound like the Japanese cast, might as well just put out the subbed version only instead of wasting time on English imitations of Nozawa or Nakao.

If you're reading the translation of a book, do you want it to be as close as possible to the original language or do you want the translator to do his own thing and insert his own thoughts?

When reading The Metamorphosis, I want to read Gregor Samsa's thoughts as Kafka wrote them, not what the translator is interpreting as he reads. When watching Dragon Ball, I want to listen to Son Goku as Nozawa played him, not Schemmel's butchered interpretation.

[ekrolo2]

I don't need dub voice actors to sound like the Japanese cast, might as well just put out the subbed version only instead of wasting time on English imitations of Nozawa or Nakao.

If you're reading the translation of a book, do you want it to be as close as possible to the original language or do you want the translator to do his own thing and insert his own thoughts?

When reading The Metamorphosis, I want to read Gregor Samsa's thoughts as Kafka wrote them, not what the translator is interpreting as he reads. When watching Dragon Ball, I want to listen to Son Goku as Nozawa played him, not Schemmel's butchered interpretation.

If the script is close enough to the original and the voice actor does a good job, I don't need them to sound like another voice actor. I mean, that's what Kai was, a fairly accurate translation job done by voice actors who don't sound like the Japanese cast. Sabat's Piccolo doesn't sound like the Japanese one, being way more deep while JPN Piccolo sounds closer to McNeil, doesn't mean Sabat doesn't do a good job at the voice. Ayers sounds way more like a posh douchebag while Nakao sounds more effeminate and haughty.

[Doctor.]

I don't need dub voice actors to sound like the Japanese cast, might as well just put out the subbed version only instead of wasting time on English imitations of Nozawa or Nakao.

If you're reading the translation of a book, do you want it to be as close as possible to the original language or do you want the translator to do his own thing and insert his own thoughts?

When reading The Metamorphosis, I want to read Gregor Samsa's thoughts as Kafka wrote them, not what the translator is interpreting as he reads. When watching Dragon Ball, I want to listen to Son Goku as Nozawa played him, not Schemmel's butchered interpretation.

If the script is close enough to the original and the voice actor does a good job, I don't need them to sound like another voice actor. I mean, that's what Kai was, a fairly accurate translation job done by voice actors who don't sound like the Japanese cast. Sabat's Piccolo doesn't sound like the Japanese one, being way more deep while JPN Piccolo sounds closer to McNeil, doesn't mean Sabat doesn't do a good job at the voice. Ayers sounds way more like a posh douchebag while Nakao sounds more effeminate and haughty.

Nakao and Ayres sound pretty alike.

Well, can't say I agree. Sabat is talented but his Piccolo sounds too normal and bland and, really, the same for Schemmel to a lesser extent, even if his biggest problem is that he still doesn't get Goku after all these years. Voice matters when trying to capture a character. It's why so many dub fans complain about Nozawa even though she's a talented actress (on top of nostalgia, because those same dub fans were the same to praise her Black, but I digress), because they think she doesn't fit the character as they understand him.

[ekrolo2]

Nakao and Ayres sound pretty alike.

Well, can't say I agree. Sabat is talented but his Piccolo sounds too normal and bland and, really, the same for Schemmel to a lesser extent, even if his biggest problem is that he still doesn't get Goku after all these years. Voice matters when trying to capture a character. It's why so many dub fans complain about Nozawa even though she's a talented actress (on top of nostalgia, because those same dub fans were the same to praise her Black, but I digress), because they think she doesn't fit the character as they understand him.

I don't really care about those kinds of things, as long as someone sounds good I can accept them. Maybe its watching so many comic book related stuff get portrayed by lots of different people that I don't see anyone as... not replacable, I guess.

For example, if they cut out everyone from either version, like dump Sabat or Nozawa, I wouldn't care as long as the replacement sounds good.

[8000 Saiyan]

I dunno. Whenever I hear Ayres, I don't hear any similarities to Nakao.

[ekrolo2]

I dunno. Whenever I hear Ayres, I don't hear any similarities to Nakao.

Same, Nakao sounds significantly more effeminate and higher pitched then Ayers does. The only time the two sound similar to me is when Freeza's losing his shit and screaming his head off. Honestly, the only character who sounds fairly similar between the dub and sub is Vegeta to me.

[8000 Saiyan]

I dunno. Whenever I hear Ayres, I don't hear any similarities to Nakao.

Same, Nakao sounds significantly more effeminate and higher pitched then Ayers does. The only time the two sound similar to me is when Freeza's losing his shit and screaming his head off. Honestly, the only character who sounds fairly similar between the dub and sub is Vegeta to me.

Don't hear any similarities in Sabat and Horikawa whatsoever. Sabat has a deeper voice while Horikawa sounds lighter.

The guy that is closer to Horikawa in pitch is Drummond, although his voice isn't really accurate.

[ABED]

They don't sound alike but there are similarities. Both give an over the top effeminate/upper crust performance. And I don't know how anyone can say Nakao's delivery is higher pitched. If anything, it's Ayres who has the higher pitched performance. I think both are distinct, but in line with the character.

The guy that is closer to Horikawa in pitch is Drummond, although his voice isn't really accurate.

I find that baffling. Drummond is significantly higher and gravellier than Horikawa. Both Sabat and Drummond's Vegeta's are more guttural.

Sabat is talented but his Piccolo sounds too normal and bland and, really, the same for Schemmel to a lesser extent, even if his biggest problem is that he still doesn't get Goku after all these years.

Sabat's voice is VERY distinctive. Even his normal voice stands out in a crowd. If you were watching a show and a random commercial came on, would you not immediately recognize his voice? And what about Goku does Schemmel not get?

[8000 Saiyan]

I find that baffling. Drummond is significantly higher and gravellier than Horikawa. Both Sabat and Drummond's Vegeta's are more guttural.

Horikawa sounds gravelly in the recent stuff, you know.

[Lightdasher]

It seems fairly unpopular to like Chi-Chi, but I do, particularly as a mother. Despite her being so overbearing in regards to her children, she seems like an honest representation of what many mothers are like. It does bother me that she's so controlling over her children, but the honest reason is just because I want to see more from Goten and she's often the one stopping him from doing much. I think it's a bit different in Gohan's case because, while he had moments of wanting to train, he was actually pretty into what his mom had him doing anyway. As least from what I've seen, Chi-Chi doesn't get enough credit for just wanting the best for her offspring. My mom and grandmothers are uncomfortable, to say the least, of me doing anything potentially harmful (even if it's for work), and I'm already in my twenties. I can see why Chi-Chi wouldn't want her own kids fighting much and respect her for the lengths she goes to keep that from happening, even if it's against my own wishes. I'm thankful that she's at least lenient sometimes. Maybe the History of Trunks had a hand in my feelings on this as well; out of all characters in the special, I felt the worst for Future Chi-Chi, and wouldn't wish such a fate upon any mother.

[ABED]

It seems fairly unpopular to like Chi-Chi, but I do, particularly as a mother. Despite her being so overbearing in regards to her children, she seems like an honest representation of what many mothers are like. It does bother me that she's so controlling over her children, but the honest reason is just because I want to see more from Goten and she's often the one stopping him from doing much. I think it's a bit different in Gohan's case because, while he had moments of wanting to train, he was actually pretty into what his mom had him doing anyway. As least from what I've seen, Chi-Chi doesn't get enough credit for just wanting the best for her offspring. My mom and grandmothers are uncomfortable, to say the least, of me doing anything potentially harmful (even if it's for work), and I'm already in my twenties. I can see why Chi-Chi wouldn't want her own kids fighting much and respect her for the lengths she goes to keep that from happening, even if it's against my own wishes. I'm thankful that she's at least lenient sometimes. Maybe the History of Trunks had a hand in my feelings on this as well; out of all characters in the special, I felt the worst for Future Chi-Chi, and wouldn't wish such a fate upon any mother.

Yes, many mothers are overbearing and care more for what they want out of their children's lives than what their child would want.

[ulisa]

It seems fairly unpopular to like Chi-Chi, but I do, particularly as a mother. Despite her being so overbearing in regards to her children, she seems like an honest representation of what many mothers are like. It does bother me that she's so controlling over her children, but the honest reason is just because I want to see more from Goten and she's often the one stopping him from doing much. I think it's a bit different in Gohan's case because, while he had moments of wanting to train, he was actually pretty into what his mom had him doing anyway. As least from what I've seen, Chi-Chi doesn't get enough credit for just wanting the best for her offspring. My mom and grandmothers are uncomfortable, to say the least, of me doing anything potentially harmful (even if it's for work), and I'm already in my twenties. I can see why Chi-Chi wouldn't want her own kids fighting much and respect her for the lengths she goes to keep that from happening, even if it's against my own wishes. I'm thankful that she's at least lenient sometimes. Maybe the History of Trunks had a hand in my feelings on this as well; out of all characters in the special, I felt the worst for Future Chi-Chi, and wouldn't wish such a fate upon any mother.

While I'm the last person to like or defend ChiChi, I will say that her intentions have always been good. She wants her children to be safe and succeed and I cannot fault her for that. I also think that how she comes across does depend on the writer/episode. In some story arcs, she is nearly unbearable because her overbearing and controlling traits are really pushed to eleven instead of being a good balance between nurturing and protective. In other stories, she really comes across as a mother that wants what's best for her family and tries her damnedst to make sure that happens.

I do say that I take issue with her pushing her own desires onto her children. It seems more to me that she regrets not being able to get a good education and so she wants her children to have one. While this would be a fine goal, she tends to push it beyond what's healthy and that makes me think that she is trying, probably subconsciously, to live vicariously through her children which is never a good angle. I personally think she is too controlling and that she can be very emotionally manipulative and even downright abusive at times, particularly with Gohan---I seriously doubt he had a good chance to decide if he was interested in a scholarly career or not, with the way his mother pushed and pushed it. I would have much preferred if she had let him explore different avenues on his own and come to his own decision about what he wanted to be. As the anime currently stands, it still feels more like he went down that career path out of devotion to his mother rather than any individual desire. If I would narrow ChiChi down to one major flaw, it would be her refusal/inability to listen to someone else's point of view. Once she gets an idea in her head as best, she rarely, if ever, will try to appreciate another angle which I think really damages not only her relationship with her children but her relationship with Goku as well. As much as she rants about not being listened to and her wishes for her children's future not being respected, she really has not demonstrated that in abundance herself. A little more positive communication would do that whole family a ton of good.

Having said that though, again, I do think you're right in that ChiChi does truly love her family. She just needs to balance a healthy way to express it.

[Lightdasher]

Yes, many mothers are overbearing and care more for what they want out of their children's lives than what their child would want.

Good point there, she definitely overdoes it. While I choose to sympathize with her in her wants, even I can see that she comes off as controlling.

I do say that I take issue with her pushing her own desires onto her children. It seems more to me that she regrets not being able to get a good education and so she wants her children to have one. While this would be a fine goal, she tends to push it beyond what's healthy and that makes me think that she is trying, probably subconsciously, to live vicariously through her children which is never a good angle. I personally think she is too controlling and that she can be very emotionally manipulative and even downright abusive at times, particularly with Gohan---I seriously doubt he had a good chance to decide if he was interested in a scholarly career or not, with the way his mother pushed and pushed it. I would have much preferred if she had let him explore different avenues on his own and come to his own decision about what he wanted to be. As the anime currently stands, it still feels more like he went down that career path out of devotion to his mother rather than any individual desire. If I would narrow ChiChi down to one major flaw, it would be her refusal/inability to listen to someone else's point of view. Once she gets an idea in her head as best, she rarely, if ever, will try to appreciate another angle which I think really damages not only her relationship with her children but her relationship with Goku as well. As much as she rants about not being listened to and her wishes for her children's future not being respected, she really has not demonstrated that in abundance herself. A little more positive communication would do that whole family a ton of good.

I'd always figured that was her reasoning for pushing the studies so hard as well, in addition to Goku kinda' being a country bumpkin himself. I also assumed Gohan didn't take much issue with a focus on studies, not so much as just how much he was forced to focus on them, but as with all my assumptions, I leave the benefit of doubt. There were times where Gohan would express an interest in his father's hobby/friends and wanted to take part, and I do wonder how different, if at all, he would have turned out if he had the freedom to choose that route as he so desired. Your statement about the major flaw is an interesting one; I've not dwelled on it much by itself, but it definitely seems true. I imagine she has to be headstrong to take a charge with her family, but headstrong doesn't mean controlling. If we could ever see character development in Super on minor characters, I would greatly appreciate that in Chi-Chi.

Thanks so much for the points, ulisa and ABED.

[ABED]

She's not a horrible mother. She is overbearing, but she does soften up with Goten, which I appreciate.

[Michsi]

I don't think Chichi deserves the hate she has gotten over the years, but I understand why so many would find her unlikable. Besides the flanderization her character suffered in the anime and that being what most from the West were exposed to, her shtick is something we often encounter in real life too. Goku and the others are so outlandish that we can't really draw parallels with something from our day to day experiences, but overbearing, pushy and strict parents are something many are familiar with.

[ABED]

I don't think Chichi deserves the hate she has gotten over the years, but I understand why so many would find her unlikable. Besides the flanderization her character suffered in the anime and that being what most from the West were exposed to, her shtick is something we often encounter in real life too. Goku and the others are so outlandish that we can't really draw parallels with something from our day to day experiences, but overbearing, pushy and strict parents are something many are familiar with.

We are watching DB FOR the big fights, so of course the nagging mother pushing for her child to not fight and practically looking down on her husband for doing so is bound to rub fans the wrong way.

[ekrolo2]

Transformations were a mistake.

[Grimlock]

Transformations were a mistake.

I'll rephrase that to reflect what I would say it is an unpopular opinion but: too many transformations is/were a mistake.