Unpopular DB opinions

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TheDipDap1234
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by TheDipDap1234 » Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:56 pm

Michsi wrote:
The gr wrote:
Dbzfan94 wrote:New unpopular opinion

Tournament of Power is one of the worst DB arcs to date. There’s little to no consistency from episode to episode. It feels so episodic like many American cartoons are. The writing feels like they forget what happened 4 seconds prior. Also for a battle royale where everything is supposed to be happening at the same time, events happen in consequence. Characters disappear for episodes at a time and just turns out they were standing still doing nothing the whole time.

I see so many things about this character got such a great showing but for the most part excluding 17 and Freeza they got one or two good moments and that’s it.
Yup this totally work as a stand alone story :lolno: the episodic format is completely destroying my enjoyment and the recruitment phase aside from a couple of episode was boring as hell, never gonna rewatch those part when it get released a dub.
I'm curious if this will remain an unpopular opinion. The TOP has been a rollercoaster when it comes to general opinion. It started out pretty low, got better with that Roshi episode, dropped again, then had that string of pretty good episodes from 109 -120 with 111,115 and 119 being the only exceptions. Since then it's been pretty 'meh' I'd say.
I've seen people praising episode 111 a lot on other websites.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Hawk9211 » Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:58 pm

Robo4900 wrote:
Hawk9211 wrote:Objectively,RoF was much than this arc but it was way more boring.I enjoyed copy vegeta more.
Depends.

The Copy Vegeta thing is the only time this really applies to Dragon Ball in my view, so get ready for this...
As much as the arc is rather disappointing in sub viewing, the dub makes it a lot better.

Naturally, there's one very good reason for why this is.
English is not my mother tongue,so I don't care for dub.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Robo4900 » Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:01 pm

Hawk9211 wrote:English is not my mother tongue,so I don't care for dub.
Fair enough.

And as I say, this is a very rare case. Only reason I consider the dub to be good for that one is because they got Brian Drummond in as Copy Vegeta, and he absolutely slayed. :)

Pretty underwhelming arc, but sometimes a great actor can salvage a poor plot. Of course, it is all a matter of opinion.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Dbzfan94 » Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:19 pm

Hawk9211 wrote: Objectively,RoF was much than this arc but it was way more boring.I enjoyed copy vegeta more.
I dont know about objectively, but at least RF tried to have a coherent plot. So Ill give it that.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Michsi » Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:15 am

Robo4900 wrote:
Michsi wrote:It's an interesting analogy, but I have to say, I've had cake where the icing was what made the whole thing good. :? So, fan-service alone can be enough for some, but we'll see.
It can be done, but you have to have at least a decent cake in the first place.

I think of one of my favourite Doctor Who stories, The Three Doctors. In 1973, the writers thought "Hey, why don't we bring back the other two actors who've played the Doctor, and have them do a cool thing with the current(Third) Doctor in honour of the show's 10-year anniversary?"
And yeah, there was a lot of fanservice, because of course there would be. But, the plot itself was fairly well thought-out, the characters were the fan favourites we'd come to love over the past 10 seasons, and most importantly, the writing was sharp as a tack. Wall to wall wit, the characters all were doing things that made sense, and actually, the story itself was a fairly clever idea that made the multi-Doctor crossover make sense.

Ultimately, it was a good cake, but the icing was what made it. Omega was a cool villain, but what you came to see was the Brigadier arguing with the Doctors about whether UNIT HQ has been mysteriously transported to a parallel antimatter universe, or just a quarry in Norfolk, while the Doctors struggle to explain to Jo Grant that the second Doctor is in fact an earlier form of the third Doctor, and not simply another man entirely, while at the same time bickering with each-other in a way only two of the same person from different eras in their life could.
It's a riot.

Later on, you have The Five Doctors, which wasn't as good, because the plot was very thin, and realistically there were too many characters to juggle. Still though, the writing itself was very sharp, so as much as the whole thing overall ends up a bit of a mess, any given scene is a good laugh, and the whole product together is an entertaining 90 minutes of up-its-own-arse fanservice.

Meanwhile, Dragon Ball Super is ~130x25-minute episodes of up-its-own-arse fanservice that very much doesn't have good writing to get it through the rather abysmal plotting.
Oh, I absolutely agree that the best results come when both the writing and the fan-service are good and complement each other, but there are instances where fan-service carries the whole thing. I think Ajay said it best (IIRC) that the TOP is an arc of moments. Taken as a whole, it's pretty weak, but it has some high-points which are really impressive.
TheDipDap1234 wrote: I've seen people praising episode 111 a lot on other websites.
To be fair, I didn't think it was that bad either. I just saw a lot of negativity surrounding it here and on twitter. I think it just seemed worse than it was because it was the first episode after the special so the quality drop was felt more acutely and it ended with the elimination of a character that a lot of people assumed would make it until the end.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Robo4900 » Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:57 pm

Michsi wrote:Oh, I absolutely agree that the best results come when both the writing and the fan-service are good and complement each other, but there are instances where fan-service carries the whole thing. I think Ajay said it best (IIRC) that the TOP is an arc of moments. Taken as a whole, it's pretty weak, but it has some high-points which are really impressive.
Yeah... Even I, probably the biggest curmudgeon about Super here on Kanzenshuu, have to admit the TOP has had a lot of cool moments from what I've seen of it...
Problem is, the writing itself, and the overall plot are just not that good. The Five Doctors was rather messily plotted, but the actual writing of the material was great; any individual scene was ace.
The TOP arc of Super has strong moments, but anything that isn't one of the big "Oh wow!" parts is, in my view at least, rather terrible. And because of the incredibly slow pace it ploddles along at, you're basically spending most of your time waiting around for people to get their asses in gear and get to the actaully cool parts.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by GamerSkull » Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:50 pm

I enjoyed the use of the cast in original DB the best.

I guess it helped that the cast was smaller and Goku was able to interact with them more. And most of the characters retained relevancy to some degree throughout.
This is still kinda there in early Z but is gone after the initial arcs.

So I guess my unpopular opinion is that the cast was better in early DB.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Neo-Makaiōshin » Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:32 pm

If people complaint about the movie retelling arcs in SUPER they should be complaining about Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z being manga retellings.
Dragon Ball was always a kid series and fans should stop being in denial.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Dbzfan94 » Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:41 pm

Neo-Makaiōshin wrote:If people complaint about the movie retelling arcs in SUPER they should be complaining about Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z being manga retellings.
:wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf:

That makes no sense. They're two totally different things.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Grimlock » Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:45 pm

Neo-Makaiōshin wrote:If people complaint about the movie retelling arcs in SUPER they should be complaining about Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z being manga retellings.
I couldn't agree more! I freaking hated watching scenes that I have already seen in black and white panels from a paper! It was so freaking unnecessary for Toei to adapt the manga, while the manga was being serialized, maybe it would have been better for either Toei just to ignore it, or bring a new story. Maybe in the same vein as Pokémon. Another protagonist, another story resembling what was seen in the manga, I don't know. Anything else would have been better!11!1!
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by TheShadowEmperor8055 » Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:52 pm

Dbzfan94 wrote:New unpopular opinion

Tournament of Power is one of the worst DB arcs to date. There’s little to no consistency from episode to episode. It feels so episodic like many American cartoons are. The writing feels like they forget what happened 4 seconds prior. Also for a battle royale where everything is supposed to be happening at the same time, events happen in consequence. Characters disappear for episodes at a time and just turns out they were standing still doing nothing the whole time.

I see so many things about this character got such a great showing but for the most part excluding 17 and Freeza they got one or two good moments and that’s it.
The "worst DB arc to date" may be unpopular, but the rest of what you say is true. I know the writers don't compose the episodes in a vacuum but Jeezus Cripes, it feels so much like that with each episode sometimes in this arc. With so many writers, the saying "too many cooks spoil the broth" is so prevalent in this arc.

What makes this even worse is that honestly, I felt the writing in the Future Trunks arc was much more consistent. We know they can do better than what we've seen in the ToP arc as a whole, so it just adds insult to injury.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by jeffbr92 » Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:57 pm

Exactly ^

That's a lame attempt on trying to defend Super retellings
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by ABED » Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:05 pm

Grimlock wrote:
Neo-Makaiōshin wrote:If people complaint about the movie retelling arcs in SUPER they should be complaining about Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z being manga retellings.
I couldn't agree more! I freaking hated watching scenes that I have already seen in black and white panels from a paper! It was so freaking unnecessary for Toei to adapt the manga, while the manga was being serialized, maybe it would have been better for either Toei just to ignore it, or bring a new story. Maybe in the same vein as Pokémon. Another protagonist, another story resembling what was seen in the manga, I don't know. Anything else would have been better!11!1!
Are you being ironic?
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Grimlock » Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:05 pm

I think we both are.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Gaffer Tape » Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:07 pm

Since it's not over yet, it's too soon for me to fairly judge the Tournament of Power Arc. But if the arc concludes in a manner consistent with how it's been going for the past several months, then, yes, I definitely would agree it is the worst story arc Dragon Ball has ever produced, even worse than the RoF Arc, and I honestly didn't think that would be possible. The only thing it has going for it is "hype" moments, and hype rarely has any effect on me. And in this case, the hype isn't even all that good. There have been episodes I've really enjoyed, but they are so shallow and forgettable that I honestly cannot think of a single one off the top of my head. They pass through my brain and then straight back out again. And that's only on the rare occasion when it's good. Most of the time lately, it's just become so boring and tedious.

The main problem is just how incapable they seem to be of taking advantage of the dramatic potential they have cultivated. We've never seen a battle royale before in DB, not really. The one other time it happened, two of the competitors were defeated instantly, and it immediately became a one-on-one fight followed by another one-on-one fight. So I was really excited about it. But they made it so huge that I've never been able to keep up with who most of the characters are. It's been impossible to feel any sense of progression. Characters you've never heard of swoop in and swoop back out again. Not to mention this is an extremely difficult situation. There are no bad guys, per se. They're all people trying to defend everything they've ever known, and yet all their victories would doom others to the same fate they're trying to avoid. That's dark. That's barbaric. That's internal conflict. And yet they've done nothing with it. Almost literally nothing. There was one moment where Gohan felt remorse over defeating someone. That's it. The rest has just been business as usual, with Goku's "Yay, I'm having a fight against a really strong guy!" caricature dominating the entire tone. This is not business as usual. This is deciding who lives and who dies, and yet nobody seems to care. And if they don't care, then I'm just really bored.

I honestly cannot wait for Super to end at this point.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by The Patrolman » Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:07 am

Neo-Makaiōshin wrote:If people complaint about the movie retelling arcs in SUPER they should be complaining about Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z being manga retellings.
In what sort of sense does that make? DB and DBZ are adaptations of the manga.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Artorias » Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:26 am

Just found this thread, thought it'd be a fun way to vent.

I guess my unpopular opinion would be... Vegeta kinda sucks. I think he is the single most overrated character in all of fiction. I NEVER even for second, even as a CHILD, bought the whole "tough guy" act. He always just came off a try hard edge lord dickhead sulking in the corner and constantly getting in the way. He was never "alpha" to me, never "cool", just kinda...like that dude we all know that tells crazy stories that you're 99% sure are full of shit.

All of the above refers to CELL ARC Vegeta and onward. Saiyan and Namek saga Vegeta is my second favorite character in Dragon Ball...so I'm not some mindless fanboy hater. I actually really dug him when he was a straight up conniving sadistic villain. The problem for me comes once you're supposed to start rooting for him. I just think the character fell off a cliff as time went on, and Super has just ran his character so deep into the ground that he's on the other side of the planet at this point.

Also, Majin Vegeta was fantastic. He was actually likeable, intimidating, and sympathetic then for once.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Neo-Makaiōshin » Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:31 am

Dbzfan94 wrote: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf:

That makes no sense. They're two totally different things.
As Grimlock put it, both are adaptations of material we (the audience) have seen beforehand (most prevalent complaint againts the retellings in SUPER).
Dragon Ball was always a kid series and fans should stop being in denial.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by TobyS » Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:44 am

Artorias wrote:Just found this thread, thought it'd be a fun way to vent.

I guess my unpopular opinion would be... Vegeta kinda sucks. I think he is the single most overrated character in all of fiction. I NEVER even for second, even as a CHILD, bought the whole "tough guy" act. He always just came off a try hard edge lord dickhead sulking in the corner and constantly getting in the way. He was never "alpha" to me, never "cool", just kinda...like that dude we all know that tells crazy stories that you're 99% sure are full of shit.

All of the above refers to CELL ARC Vegeta and onward. Saiyan and Namek saga Vegeta is my second favorite character in Dragon Ball...so I'm not some mindless fanboy hater. I actually really dug him when he was a straight up conniving sadistic villain. The problem for me comes once you're supposed to start rooting for him. I just think the character fell off a cliff as time went on, and Super has just ran his character so deep into the ground that he's on the other side of the planet at this point.

Also, Majin Vegeta was fantastic. He was actually likeable, intimidating, and sympathetic then for once.
Thank you. He was enjoyable as a cackling maniac in the namek saga. But the moment they made him less unhinged and tried to rebrand him as a badass, while still being an unrepentant murderous prick.... He just sucks. I wish he died on namek or buu or something. I imagine a super where Piccolo and Ten took his place at training with Whis.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Dbzfan94 » Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:49 am

Neo-Makaiōshin wrote:
Dbzfan94 wrote: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf:

That makes no sense. They're two totally different things.
As Grimlock put it, both are adaptations of material we (the audience) have seen beforehand (most prevalent complaint againts the retellings in SUPER).
Grimlock was being sarcastic.

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