Unpopular DB opinions

[Cetra]

To be honest, this new Broly is rebooted. He is different than he was originally.

That is completely irrelevant and I don't know why people do not get this. Reboot does not equal erasure. Reboot does not equal get rid of everything that was the incentive popularity-wise to re-introduce him in the first place. Reboot does not mean start from 0% scratch or or or ...

There is no reboot without reference to what is rebooted. And destroying those aspects that are beloved just because some do not like them - even though those people do not matter because those were not the reason why the re-introduction happens, but those that guaranteed popularity were the reason, meaning they can get something for them but not by sacrificing what was beloved in the first place and reason to bring him in - is off the point.

[Hulk10]

To be honest, this new Broly is rebooted. He is different than he was originally.

Wasn't that the point?

Yeah it was the point.

[Cetra]

To be honest, this new Broly is rebooted. He is different than he was originally.

Wasn't that the point?

Yeah it was the point.

No, the point was to introduce a culmination of ideas (= Broly) that was evaluated as profitable (= making money off of popularity). The reboot went too far by writing too heavily over that what resulted in that popularity thus the point was missed.

I repeat, Reboot is not supposed to be erasure.

[ABED]

I don't know what you mean by a reboot isn't supposed to be erasure. A reboot results in erasing old continuity.

[Cetra]

I already explained what I mean by that and I am tired of people only reading as much as they want just so they can disagree.

If you erase everything 100% it is not a reboot. My post obviously did not speak about no overwriting at all. And you have to consider what this specific re-introduction of Broly is supposed to do as well as WHY they decided to do that in the first place. I have explained that more than once now. Changing what people like to appeal to those that disliked it and thus getting rid of what was so powerful that it was part of why it (Broly) was brought up again is completey missing the mark.

[ABED]

I tried to understand and I can't from your previous post. If I could, I wouldn't have asked for an explanation. Reboots in this context do mean to start from scratch. Batman Begins rebooted the Batman film continuity. None of the events from Burton or Schumacher's movies happened in Nolan's trilogy. And in the context of DB, the new Broly wouldn't be a reboot since the original wasn't in continuity.

[Cetra]

I tried to understand and I can't from your previous post. If I could, I wouldn't have asked for an explanation. Reboots in this context do mean to start from scratch. Batman Begins rebooted the Batman film continuity. None of the events from Burton or Schumacher's movies happened in Nolan's trilogy. And in the context of DB, the new Broly wouldn't be a reboot since the original wasn't in continuity.

The post from the last page. And no, reboot in this context does not mean start from scratch because as communication initiator I am the one to decide the context. I am not talking about "starting from scratch" from a continuity perspective. I am talking about rebooting from a meta perspective of the idea. I once more edited my above post so you can read it again.

Broly 2.0 is absolutely a reboot because he is not a character that appeared out of thin air. You do not need one and the same continuity. You only need the idea. Also I will not have this conversation with you because I already told you about 2 million times that I will not have any canonicity/continuity discussion with you in which way you seem to drive the conversation now.

If you dislike the term reboot call it re-imagining. But it does not change what I am talking about that they missed their intended mark.

[Hulk10]

Wasn't that the point?

Yeah it was the point.

No, the point was to introduce a culmination of ideas (= Broly) that was evaluated as profitable (= making money off of popularity). The reboot went too far by writing too heavily over that what resulted in that popularity thus the point was missed.

I repeat, Reboot is not supposed to be erasure.

I never said it was erasure.

[Cetra]

Yeah it was the point.

No, the point was to introduce a culmination of ideas (= Broly) that was evaluated as profitable (= making money off of popularity). The reboot went too far by writing too heavily over that what resulted in that popularity thus the point was missed.

I repeat, Reboot is not supposed to be erasure.

I never said it was erasure.

I mentioned erasure because of elementary parts of well liked trais of Broly being erased and that is absolutely problematic for re-introducing Broly or for what its worth any character or idea that is because of its popular aspects used again.

[Hulk10]

No, the point was to introduce a culmination of ideas (= Broly) that was evaluated as profitable (= making money off of popularity). The reboot went too far by writing too heavily over that what resulted in that popularity thus the point was missed.

I repeat, Reboot is not supposed to be erasure.

I never said it was erasure.

I mentioned erasure because of elementary parts of well liked trais of Broly being erased and that is absolutely problematic for re-introducing Broly or for what its worth any character or idea that is because of its popular aspects used again.

There is a reboot of Ben 10 where he and his cousin don't fight nearly as much as they did in the original.

[Cetra]

I never said it was erasure.

I mentioned erasure because of elementary parts of well liked trais of Broly being erased and that is absolutely problematic for re-introducing Broly or for what its worth any character or idea that is because of its popular aspects used again.

There is a reboot of Ben 10 where he and his cousin don't fight nearly as much as they did in the original.

I don't know what that means because it is not even close to what I am talking about. And I am sure Ben 10 was not taken because of the popularity of certain aspects with that reboot making a face-landing by removing those aspects. So if those fights were popular they sure as hell were still not the reason for them to think "oh he's popular so we gonna bring in another incarnation but miss the mark by removing for what he is popular". If it was their intention to bring in a beloved idea and then removed that then of course in case of Ben 10 they also missed the mark. And for Broly is was absolutely. He was not supposed to be introduced "because he's Broly" but because "Bbecause he is Broly and Broly is popular and why? because of reason x and that is liked and leads to money". And getting rid of reason x is fatal for the popularity of the idea that is Broly. It does not matter if some people disliked those aspects. They were not the reason why Broly was brought in. Those that liked him were the reason. And as said, you can change around some stuff if you want to make him more appealing. But if that turns out to be a removal of things that made him so popular which then contributed to them even considering bringing him in it is so far from succeeding in the original intention as it could be. I already said it to people, Broly is not so well liked because he is called Broly and he is the son of Paragus. The cliché side that he had was what made him so memorable to people. Even if that is hated by others you cannot just choose to remove it. Appeal to those that hated him at the cost of things that made him liked by others? That is not how to do it.

Of course they still were successful from a financial perspective but that's not the entire thing.

[Hulk10]

I mentioned erasure because of elementary parts of well liked trais of Broly being erased and that is absolutely problematic for re-introducing Broly or for what its worth any character or idea that is because of its popular aspects used again.

There is a reboot of Ben 10 where he and his cousin don't fight nearly as much as they did in the original.

I don't know what that means because it is not even close to what I am talking about. And I am sure Ben 10 was not taken because of the popularity of certain aspects with that reboot making a face-landing by removing those aspects. So if those fights were popular they sure as hell were still not the reason for them to think "oh he's popular so we gonna bring in another incarnation but miss the mark by removing for what he is popular". If it was their intention to bring in a beloved idea and then removed that then of course in case of Ben 10 they also missed the mark. And for Broly is was absolutely. He was not supposed to be introduced "because he's Broly" but because "Broly is popular and why? because of reason x". And getting rid of reason x is fatal for the popularity of the idea that is Broly. It does not matter if some people disliked those aspects. They were not the reason why Broly was brought in. Those that liked him were the reason. And as said, you can change around some stuff if you want to make him more appealing. But if that turns out to be a removal of things that made him so popular which then contributed to them even considering bringing him in it is so far from succeeding in the original intention as it could be. I already said it to people, Broly is not so well liked because he is called Broly and he is the son of Paragus. The cliché side that he had was what made him so memorable to people. Even if that is hated by others you cannot just choose to remove it. Appeal to those that hated him at the cost of things that made him liked by others? That is not how to do it.

Its relevant because its a reboot too and they took out the arguing that Ben and his cousin Gwen did because so many people thought that the cousin's were in love.

[Cetra]

Its relevant because its a reboot too and they took out the arguing that Ben and his cousin Gwen did because so many people thought that the cousin's were in love.

The circumstances are completely different so the comparison is not appropriate. I don't know if you have read the edited post above.

But it seems you have quoted most of it.

As said, completely different thing. Ben 10 was surely not rebooted because "hey, Ben 10 fans think the cousins are in love and some like it but in the process of working on that remove that instead!" There is a reason behind that: Toei would have never done this. Toei wanted the re-introduction for the reasons I mentioned but Akira Toriyama removed what Broly was primarily loved for rendering one of the motivation factors for Toei and their Broly idea null.

[Hulk10]

Its relevant because its a reboot too and they took out the arguing that Ben and his cousin Gwen did because so many people thought that the cousin's were in love.

The circumstances are completely different so the comparison is not appropriate. I don't know if you have read the edited post above.

But it seems you have quoted most of it.

I did read it and I don't agree with you but you do have some valid points.

[Cetra]

Its relevant because its a reboot too and they took out the arguing that Ben and his cousin Gwen did because so many people thought that the cousin's were in love.

The circumstances are completely different so the comparison is not appropriate. I don't know if you have read the edited post above.

But it seems you have quoted most of it.

I did read it and I don't agree with you but you do have some valid points.

What is it you disagree with? That an intention not met leads to a failure of the plan that is specifically meant to follow that intention? Because not agreeing with that is pretty weird. In Communication you specifically would call it "Disturbance of Communication" if your communication partner fails to approriately respond to the context-specific message you've sent which of course carries your intention. Now of course with an intention being the drive for a piece of work like what's going on with Broly it is easy to follow how there is also something missed.

[ABED]

The reboot thing threw me off.

Are you saying that when they reimagined Broly, they took away the important elements he is known for? Am I on the right track?

[Hulk10]

The circumstances are completely different so the comparison is not appropriate. I don't know if you have read the edited post above.

But it seems you have quoted most of it.

I did read it and I don't agree with you but you do have some valid points.

What is it you disagree with? That an intention not met leads to a failure of the plan that is specifically meant to follow that intention? Because not agreeing with that is pretty weird. In Communication you specifically would call it "Disturbance of Communication" if your communication partner fails to approriately respond to the context-specific message you've sent which of course carries your intention. Now of course with an intention being the drive for a piece of work like what's going on with Broly it is easy to follow how there is also something missed.

I don't agree with your assessment of the new Broly not being a reboot. Your argument is well reasoned.

[ABED]

Why do you think Broly is popular? As far as I can tell, it's because he has a cool design and is a wrecking machine. I haven't seen the movie, but the design is still pretty good and given that he's taking on Saiyans with god ki, it's safe to say he's really strong. So what's been gotten rid of that you believe made Broly popular?

[nickzambuto]

Why do you think Broly is popular? As far as I can tell, it's because he has a cool design and is a wrecking machine. I haven't seen the movie, but the design is still pretty good and given that he's taking on Saiyans with god ki, it's safe to say he's really strong. So what's been gotten rid of that you believe made Broly popular?

His merciless evil might be part of the reason people like him. He had some deadly lines in the first movie.

"You Kakarot. I choose you to be the first of my victims."

And I've noticed that every Broly fan loves the moment when he confronted the small aliens and blew up their planet in front of them.

[goku the krump dancer]

Why do you think Broly is popular? As far as I can tell, it's because he has a cool design and is a wrecking machine. I haven't seen the movie, but the design is still pretty good and given that he's taking on Saiyans with god ki, it's safe to say he's really strong. So what's been gotten rid of that you believe made Broly popular?

And I've noticed that every Broly fan loves the moment when he confronted the small aliens and blew up their planet in front of them.

Thats the most evil thing he's ever done on screen.

"I noticed you all staring at your little planet dreaming that you could go back there one day.. Well it was JUST A DREAM *Blows up planet*.

Thats just straight up mean lol. But awesome.

I'm not taking anything away from new Broly as I've havent seen the movie yet.