Unpopular DB opinions

[ABED]

I'm more than fine with not following through with Gohan's so-called storyline. He already developed from pampered crybaby to helpful warrior. He's integral to the Freeza arc, and I don't think the only logical conclusion is him taking Goku's spot as the world's strongest.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

I think the perfect ending to Dragon Ball would've been a story in which Goku stays dead, but goes on crazy adventures and fights strong guys in the afterlife, interspersed with Saiyaman chapters just for shits and giggles.

I'm more than fine with not following through with Gohan's so-called storyline. He already developed from pampered crybaby to helpful warrior. He's integral to the Freeza arc, and I don't think the only logical conclusion is him taking Goku's spot as the world's strongest.

You say that, but he had already been built up as this incredible child with more potential power than anyone else. It would've felt incomplete if that was never followed up on for me, at least.

[ABED]

I think the perfect ending to Dragon Ball would've been a story in which Goku stays dead, but goes on crazy adventures and fights strong guys in the afterlife, interspersed with Saiyaman chapters just for shits and giggles.

I'm more than fine with not following through with Gohan's so-called storyline. He already developed from pampered crybaby to helpful warrior. He's integral to the Freeza arc, and I don't think the only logical conclusion is him taking Goku's spot as the world's strongest.

You say that, but he had already been built up as this incredible child with more potential power than anyone else. It would've felt incomplete if that was never followed up on for me, at least.

But it was complete. His potential was pulled out by The Grand Elder. It's annoyingly convenient that he always has more potential even when his power is drawn out in some way. The end result of his potential isn't just taking over the lead role. He helped out in a major way. You could argue that his arc was already complete in the Saiyan arc.

[GigaDrill]

I'm more than fine with not following through with Gohan's so-called storyline. He already developed from pampered crybaby to helpful warrior. He's integral to the Freeza arc, and I don't think the only logical conclusion is him taking Goku's spot as the world's strongest.

Well it did follow through and conclude with him starting a family instead of having to continue on as a warrior like his father

[Doctor.]

Freeza arc as an ending works with the sole exception of failing to pull through on Gohan's plot line, and, yes, offing Goku cuts against the tone of the series in a big way. (And not with the sense of nostalgic wrap-up GT offers.)

After the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai, I don't think any story line leaves the series feeling nearly as complete as the Boo arc does.

It works if Vegeta is left dead. But he's revived at the end of the arc, so I don't think it'd feel satisfying if he's still alive and Goku's dead.

[precita]

Technically none of the characters in Super really have progressed since the end of the Buu arc. The only difference is everyone was essentially retired from fighting and living peaceful lives, especially Gohan, Krillin, and their families. So when people see characters like Videl and 18 as housewives it bothers them, but then again you have to realize they've been living in peace for years. Aside from Beerus first appearance and Freeza coming to Earth, all the fighting with Zamasu and now the tournaments are in alternate universes or timelines.

Same thing with 17 as a park ranger, or Piccolo just being a caretaker of Pan, etc. These characters are all essentially "done," and only kept in the limelight because people don't want Goku/Vegeta being the only two characters who do anything.

[ABED]

Freeza arc as an ending works with the sole exception of failing to pull through on Gohan's plot line, and, yes, offing Goku cuts against the tone of the series in a big way. (And not with the sense of nostalgic wrap-up GT offers.)

After the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai, I don't think any story line leaves the series feeling nearly as complete as the Boo arc does.

It works if Vegeta is left dead. But he's revived at the end of the arc, so I don't think it'd feel satisfying if he's still alive and Goku's dead.

Goku wasn't dead at the end of that arc.

[Doctor.]

Goku wasn't dead at the end of that arc.

I'm working under the assumption here that the ending leaves Goku dead, which is why most people prefer the Freeza arc as the ending: because Goku 'dies' on Namek.

I think an ambiguous ending would work well. But, again, only if Vegeta is killed off.

[ABED]

Goku wasn't dead at the end of that arc.

I'm working under the assumption here that the ending leaves Goku dead, which is why most people prefer the Freeza arc as the ending: because Goku 'dies' on Namek.

I think an ambiguous ending would work well. But, again, only if Vegeta is killed off.

Why an ambiguous ending?

I don't know why so many love the idea of endings where the protagonist dies or fails. Far too many people claim they love Rocky because he loses at the end, but that shows they don't get the ending at all because it wasn't a downer. Goku dying on Namek would've been a down ending. Not simply bittersweet like GT's, but a genuine down ending which feels out of place for DB.

[Doctor.]

Goku wasn't dead at the end of that arc.

I'm working under the assumption here that the ending leaves Goku dead, which is why most people prefer the Freeza arc as the ending: because Goku 'dies' on Namek.

I think an ambiguous ending would work well. But, again, only if Vegeta is killed off.

Why an ambiguous ending?

I don't know why so many love the idea of endings where the protagonist dies or fails. Far too many people claim they love Rocky because he loses at the end, but that shows they don't get the ending at all because it wasn't a downer. Goku dying on Namek would've been a down ending. Not simply bittersweet like GT's, but a genuine down ending which feels out of place for DB.

It wouldn't be a downer. Freeza would be dead, everyone who died during the Saiyan invasion and on Namek would have been revived and Goku would have been seen as even more of a hero than he once was after avenging everyone that fell to Freeza's tyranny.

An ambiguous ending would work since it would please the people who'd want Goku to sacrifice himself for the greater good as a hero (even though the original reason he kept fighting Freeza as a Super Saiyan was selfish, he later stayed true to himself) and it would please the people who wouldn't want Goku to be killed off that way. An ending like Infamous 2's good ending would be good.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

I don't know why so many love the idea of endings where the protagonist dies or fails. Far too many people claim they love Rocky because he loses at the end, but that shows they don't get the ending at all.

There's almost a romantic allure in such a tragic ending, especially when it's at such heavy contrast with everything that comes before. This extraordinary guy who's gotten stronger than anyone else finally gets in over his own head, and has to pay a price. Since he still basically got a happy ending, it worked pretty well for a Dragon Ball ending, too. Though I wouldn't say it's a perfect ending, I wouldn't be dissatisfied of the series had stopped there.

[Doctor.]

I don't think it would have been any more of a downer than the Cell arc's ending. Actually, you can even move the Cell arc's final scene, with Gohan & co looking up at the sky in Goku's memory, and move it to the end of the Freeza arc and it would work just as fine.

[ABED]

Freeza's defeat is great, but I don't really care that much about the plight of the Namekians. Their fates are incidental. I care much more about Gohan, Goku, Kuririn, and Piccolo's fates. Goku deserves better than to be taken out by Freeza.

I don't like ambiguous endings. It feels less like it satisfies people by keeping the ending open to interpretation and more like a cop out on the writer's part by not making a definitive conclusion. I've never seen Infamous 2, so I can't comment, but I don't think an ambiguous ending works for DB. Toriyama's world is very light hearted and bright. An ambiguous ending or a tragic ending would feel out of place. At least GT's was bitter sweet and Goku leaves of his own volition.

I don't think it would have been any more of a downer than the Cell arc's ending. Actually, you can even move the Cell arc's final scene, with Gohan & co looking up at the sky in Goku's memory, and move it to the end of the Freeza arc and it would work just as fine.

At least the Cell arc had Gohan taking over for Goku (as much as I'm not fond of it) and Goku may have been forced to die to save the Earth, it's a different choice than the one he makes on Namek.

[Cipher]

I've never thought the Cell arc made a particularly good ending to the series for the same reason I've never felt the Freeza arc would work as is. It's such a random downer to leave Goku dead like that. It's also tonally pretty out of sync with the series, and the titular Dragon Balls don't get anywhere near as good a send-off.

Also, poor Kuririn's story feels a little incomplete, just after teasing his budding, but by no means assured, romance.

By the beginning of the Boo arc, we at least have most of the side characters in roles they can settle comfortably into after the window shuts on the series, and the few remaining character arcs (primarily Goku and Vegeta's, though Gohan and Mr. Satan also get arcs internal to the story line) are addressed by its end.

[Doctor.]

I also like the Boo arc's ending, but I think that all the endings of the 3 major arcs of part 2 could function well as the definitive end of the franchise.

[ABED]

4 major arcs. The Vegeta/Saiyan arc isn't part of the Freeza arc. Vegeta may have been Freeza's subordinate, but he didn't go to Earth on a mission for Freeza. His goals were his own, ergo, it's its own arc.

[Doctor.]

4 major arcs. The Vegeta/Saiyan arc isn't part of the Freeza arc.

I don't really consider it a major arc considering its length. It's not part of the Freeza arc but it could be seen as a build-up. Anyway, it's not as iconic as the other 3.

[ABED]

4 major arcs. The Vegeta/Saiyan arc isn't part of the Freeza arc.

I don't really consider it a major arc considering its length. It's not part of the Freeza arc but it could be seen as a build-up. Anyway, it's not as iconic as the other 3.

It is JUST as iconic. Classic characters and story elements are introduced in this arc. Vegeta and Gohan and Kaio-sama are introduced and Goku is revealed to be a Saiyan.

35 episodes is plenty long. DB has shorter arc. An arc isn't defined by length. It's a story that is made up of a beginning, middle, climax, and conclusion.

[Doctor.]

4 major arcs. The Vegeta/Saiyan arc isn't part of the Freeza arc.

I don't really consider it a major arc considering its length. It's not part of the Freeza arc but it could be seen as a build-up. Anyway, it's not as iconic as the other 3.

It is JUST as iconic. Classic characters and story elements are introduced in this arc. Vegeta and Gohan and Kaio-sama are introduced and Goku is revealed to be a Saiyan.

35 episodes is plenty long. DB has shorter arc. An arc isn't defined by length. It's a story that is made up of a beginning, middle, climax, and conclusion.

I know an arc isn't defined by its length, I'm not arguing whether the Saiyan arc is an arc or not. I'm arguing whether it's a major arc in the series or not. Considering it's pretty much just a build-up for the arc that comes next and most fans overlook it when talking about Dragon Ball as a whole, I don't consider it one of the major ones, at least not as important as iconic as the three that come after.

[ABED]

It's not building up to the next arc. It is its own arc with its own conclusion. Yes, it leads nicely into the next one, but on its own, it's a satisfying story with a definitive conclusion. It doesn't just serve as a setup for the next one. And what fans overlook it? What fans are you talking to? I would definitely consider it just as popular, if not more, than the Buu arc. I think you have just stated an unpopular opinion because I'm not sure many would agree with you.

So now fans don't just overlook DB, they overlook the Saiyan arc?