Unpopular DB opinions

[ABED]

General Blue was the superior villain to Tao Pai Pai.

That's certainly unpopular, but I'm interested as to why you feel that way. I never got a sense of dread from Blue.

[Gog]

General Blue was the superior villain to Tao Pai Pai.

That's certainly unpopular, but I'm interested as to why you feel that way. I never got a sense of dread from Blue.

My preference of Blue over Tao Pai Pai stems from Blue's actions, and personality. Throughout the entirety of Blue's run he executed a man for picking his nose, and at one point was going to skewer Goku with a palm tree. It just works so well with his lovable, campy, and vain personality. His silliness contrasted with the brutality of his actions are honestly the strongest parts of Blue's character.

All of which Tao Pai Pai lacked in comparison.

[ABED]

I like Blue as well. I find him interesting, but I don't get that knot in my stomach the same way as I do with Tao Pai Pai. He lacked the silliness of Buu, but he's interesting in his own way. He kills a dude with his tongue and he murders people for money. He's so matter of fact about it.

[Torturephile]

-I never liked how the super saiyan transformation was handled after the Namek saga. Many may complain about how everyone gets powerups in Super, or Goten and Trunks, but as soon as I saw Vegeta turning super saiyan the first time, I thought the show jumped the shark.
-I never liked Android 17 or 18, though I've been warming up to 17 lately due to his development in Super. 18 is still a very bland character to me. I strangely preferred 16 over them.

[Kanassa]

Until half-way through the Buu arc, Vegeta was the most boring part of Z for me. His stick had gotten old for me by the start of the Namek arc, and by the time Perfect Cell arrived even him getting his ass kicked was just 'meh'. And then when it got to the beginning of the Buu arc I was getting happy because Vegeta was starting to get more entertaining, before falling RIGHT back into his old hat for Majin Vegeta, and spending the rest of his screen time bitching. Fight with Kid Buu was awesome for him though.

Which is why I really love Super's portrayal of him. Vegeta still has a lot of his old self but he's finally interesting.

[8000 Saiyan]

I might get some hatred for this, but while his acting wasn't the best, I think Dale Wilson had a good voice for Cell.

I would say that is the case for most of the Westwood dub cast. Great actors with poor direction and writing. I would say their dub held together slightly better than Funimation during the same era, until Kai came along.

Its still a shame Ocean Kai is missing in action, the actors truly deserve another shot at Dragon Ball, especially with (hopefully) faithful scripts and decent direction.

I don't know about the Westwood dub being better than the Funimation dub. I'd say both were on the same level.

[Noah]

Until half-way through the Buu arc, Vegeta was the most boring part of Z for me. His stick had gotten old for me by the start of the Namek arc, and by the time Perfect Cell arrived even him getting his ass kicked was just 'meh'. And then when it got to the beginning of the Buu arc I was getting happy because Vegeta was starting to get more entertaining, before falling RIGHT back into his old hat for Majin Vegeta, and spending the rest of his screen time bitching. Fight with Kid Buu was awesome for him though.

Which is why I really love Super's portrayal of him. Vegeta still has a lot of his old self but he's finally interesting.

I agree at the same time I disagree with some points you addressed. Vegeta was really an interesting character all the way through the Saiyan arc to the Freeza arc, but then he became annoying when he got an active role with the good guys in the Android arc. I think his best characterization was in the Boo arc cause he looks calm and satisfied with the life he owns, but then Goku returns and all turns upside down. It was a good touch: seeing the guy again made he confused about what he really wanted from his life, so the "Majin Vegeta" stuff was really needed to solve all his issues and then having he finally showing respect for Goku, the guy he swore that would surpass and kill someday was the perfect closure to his development.

That's I despise Super's portrayal of him since Episode 2. Vegeta doesn't look consistent with the character that showed respect for Goku. Sure he wants to train to get stronger, but not again by using "surpassing Kakarot" as a goal. Not just that, but this series often show him being grumpy, pissed and uncomfortable alongside the others for no good reason at all. Vegeta's character is more than just that.

[Gog]

Kuririn and Freeza had some of the best character development in the franchise.

[ABED]

Kuririn and Freeza had some of the best character development in the franchise.

When did Freeza develop?

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Kuririn and Freeza had some of the best character development in the franchise.

You must think pretty lowly of the series, given that Freeza has had absolutely no development since day 1.

[ABED]

Development gets lumped in with characterization, but I see them as two distinctly different concepts. Freeza doesn't change, but he is a well established character. We know who he is and what he wants and what he fears.

[Doctor.]

Development gets lumped in with characterization, but I see them as two distinctly different concepts. Freeza doesn't change, but he is a well established character. We know who he is and what he wants and what he fears.

I guess wanting to train in F can be counted as development but that's still pretty shallow.

[Gog]

Kuririn and Freeza had some of the best character development in the franchise.

When did Freeza develop?

During ROF, Freeza's time in hell had transformed him into even more of a Psychopath. He's also been completly, and utterly consumed by his revenge towards Son Goku on a whole.

[ABED]

During ROF, Freeza's time in hell had transformed him into even more of a Psychopath. He's also been completly, and utterly consumed by his revenge towards Son Goku on a whole.

He was always a complete psychopath who got off on hurting people. He's way more savage in DBZ.

[Gog]

During ROF, Freeza's time in hell had transformed him into even more of a Psychopath. He's also been completly, and utterly consumed by his revenge towards Son Goku on a whole.

He was always a complete psychopath who got off on hurting people. He's way more savage in DBZ.

That's my point he became even more of a psychopath due to his time in hell, and became hell bent on his single minded goal to kill Son Goku. Honestly, I'd say he's more brutal in ROF during the Namek Saga he never really stooped so low to constantly, and consistently kill his men.

[ABED]

During ROF, Freeza's time in hell had transformed him into even more of a Psychopath. He's also been completly, and utterly consumed by his revenge towards Son Goku on a whole.

He was always a complete psychopath who got off on hurting people. He's way more savage in DBZ.

That's my point he became even more of a psychopath due to his time in hell, and became hell bent on his single minded goal to kill Son Goku. Honestly, I'd say he's more brutal in ROF during the Namek Saga he never really stooped so low to constantly, and consistently kill his men.

He was consumed by revenge when he was defeated, hence why he went to Earth in the Cell arc. In DBZ, Freeza doesn't just kill people, he has children murdered, he tortures people, rips off Nail's arm. I can't think of anything in RoF that comes remotely as close.

[Gog]

He was consumed by revenge when he was defeated, hence why he went to Earth in the Cell arc. In DBZ, Freeza doesn't just kill people, he has children murdered, he tortures people, rips off Nail's arm. I can't think of anything in RoF that comes remotely as close.

Which is his development, Hell only made that fact worse about him. But, didn't Freeza in the Resurrection Of Freeza arc (Super version) torture a man for months, and months bringing him to the brink of death, and bringing him back only to repeat the torture? Which in the end completely broke his mind, and body.

And all of that for daring to suggest to give up his revenge towards Son Goku. Of course if we're to go by the movie version Freeza also kills off his men for daring to be weak, and nearly kills everyone in his ship for that same guy daring to suggest that he gives up his vengeance? He's definitely far more callous and cruel than he was before.

[ABED]

He was consumed by revenge when he was defeated, hence why he went to Earth in the Cell arc. In DBZ, Freeza doesn't just kill people, he has children murdered, he tortures people, rips off Nail's arm. I can't think of anything in RoF that comes remotely as close.

Which is his development, Hell only made that fact worse about him. But, didn't Freeza in the Resurrection Of Freeza arc (Super version) torture a man for months, and months bringing him to the brink of death, and bringing him back only to repeat the torture? Which in the end completely broke his mind, and body.

And all of that for daring to suggest to give up his revenge towards Son Goku. Of course if we're to go by the movie version Freeza also kills off his men for daring to be weak, and nearly kills everyone in his ship for that same guy daring to suggest that he gives up his vengeance? He's definitely far more callous and cruel than he was before.

That's not change. He's fundamentally the same person. The only big change is he puts the effort into his training, but he still makes a very similar error as the last time he fought Goku and uses his strongest form only to burn himself out.

Freeza has always been willing to kill his subordinates. That's not a big change in his character. How is he more callous? He beat Vegeta to death, he tried to crush Gohan's skull, he watched with glee as his men butchered villages with elderly and children. If we go by the anime, he impales Kuririn and toys with him before throwing his lifeless body in the water like a ragdoll. He blows Kuririn up from the inside out.

[Gog]

That's not change. He's fundamentally the same person. The only big change is he puts the effort into his training, but he still makes a very similar error as the last time he fought Goku and uses his strongest form only to burn himself out.

Freeza has always been willing to kill his subordinates. That's not a big change in his character. How is he more callous? He beat Vegeta to death, he tried to crush Gohan's skull, he watched with glee as his men butchered villages with elderly and children. If we go by the anime, he impales Kuririn and toys with him before throwing his lifeless body in the water like a ragdoll. He blows Kuririn up from the inside out.

But, that is change in a sense. He's just worse now, sorta like how Goku has some similarity's to when he was a child, but he's still changed. Also, part of me has to ask how would Freeza have known that his Golden form would have suffered from the same weakness that his 100% did? For all intents and purposes that weakness was no longer a weakness. Heck, he also had some back up plans as well.

But, Freeza only ever threatened his subordinates once, and that was only ever Zarbon after he had completely messed up in that regard. He never once threatened them besides that point. He never killed the Namekian Elder for not immediately handing over the Dragon Ball, he never once killed Zarbon the moment he found out he failed. Oh, crap this may be a case of Death of the Author and I'm interpolating Freeza's actions differently.

[ABED]

Also, part of me has to ask how would Freeza have known that his Golden form would have suffered from the same weakness that his 100% did?

How did Goku know it both times? Freeza only trained to gain power. He didn't think things through. Both Vegeta and Goku were smart enough to realize the drawbacks of the intermediate Super Saiyan stages and to not make such a huge tradeoff between power and speed.

I'm still not seeing this grand change in Freeza. Maybe he's slightly more temperamental, but in the scheme of things, that's hardly a big change.