Unpopular DB opinions

Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.

Moderators: General Help, Kanzenshuu Staff

User avatar
Grimlock
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 8241
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 4:11 pm
Location: Cybertron.

Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Grimlock » Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:33 am

PsionicWarrior wrote:I am sorry I do not have any other argument than because it's a freaking video game lol
Then you have no argument at all, I can't even call that a "weak argument" because that is way less than "weak". Being a game doesn't matter in the slightest. And I've told you that a story can be told relying on a completely different media than the usual.
Goodbye friend. You are weak, so you must be destroyed!

~ War of the Dinobots ~

User avatar
Lord Frieza
I Live Here
Posts: 3801
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2015 2:36 pm

Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Lord Frieza » Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:51 am

ABED wrote:
Lord Frieza wrote:
ABED wrote:But DB isn't like superhero comics. It's not a bunch of different interpretations. Instead of taking from the past and trying to make up for it, they should just learn lessons and move forward.
I have to disagree there, the series has this in many ways. There’s Toriyama and tori’s interpitations of Goku which caused Toriyama to push back and make some aspects of Goku character more exaggerated as time went on. In fact Gt and Super’s Goku pretty much embody those intepritations. As a stand alone movie character Broly can undergo such thing pretty easily, as there is no original cannon in the manga to restrict him.

Also constantly moving forward is not as good as some would believe. Look at the Sonic Game series, always pushing forward, always trying to reinvent the wheel with every few games and more often the not getting to wrong over and over again. New is not always good, just hang around Gt and Super detractors for a while, well those with good arguments, and even if you don’t agree you see their point.

Hell part of old dragons biggest problems was rushing ahead and constantly making new stuff for the sake of it. That’s part of the reason the Android and Buu arcs are such a mess at times. A little grounding and staying in your comfort zone when it’s needed is not a bad thing.
Toei's version is a valid interpretation. They didn't go their own way with the story. They adapted Toriyama's story, but misread what he was going for. The anime is a mishmash of Toriyama's Goku and Toei's interpretation.

I can't speak to Sonic, but I wasn't arguing new is always better, but the past is gone. You can't change it. The best you can do is try to learn from the past. And to be honest, most of the time, I prefer stories try something new and risk failure than to see stories tread water and stay in their comfort zone until it dies a slow protracted death.

I don't get your final point. What did the issues with those arcs have to do with making up new stuff?
Point 1: Fair enough.

Point 2: that’s another fair point. My support is not to have Broly again but for them do something new and better with him. Can they do that, maybe not. But we’ll see. My they can learn and implement him at the same time.

Point 3: Reguardless of how that stuff came into being, we all know about some of the changes made to the Android arc, a lot of them really do little to nothing for the story. Pretty much everything done after Super Buu and Gohans first battle pretty much turns to padding with power up and forms just being throw out with no build up and requiring retcons to work.

As for the Cell ar, the changes made worked to make the story more disjointed I feel. As well as creating plot holes. Also pretty much the who beyond SS stuff has little to know build up with no sign of Goku or Vegeta even thing it’s possible prior to Goku just bringing it your of the blue.

User avatar
ABED
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 20276
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:23 am
Location: Skippack, PA
Contact:

Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by ABED » Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:56 am

I think you are arguing against a point I didn't make. I don't think new is always better. I'm arguing more that it's not a good thing to get stuck in the past and keep going to the well.

I need to type slower because my first point should read "Toei's version is NOT a valid interpretation."
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.

User avatar
Lord Frieza
I Live Here
Posts: 3801
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2015 2:36 pm

Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Lord Frieza » Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:32 pm

ABED wrote:I think you are arguing against a point I didn't make. I don't think new is always better. I'm arguing more that it's not a good thing to get stuck in the past and keep going to the well.

I need to type slower because my first point should read "Toei's version is NOT a valid interpretation."
Ah I get what you mean now.

User avatar
Robo4900
I Live Here
Posts: 4383
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2016 2:24 pm
Location: In another time and place...

Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Robo4900 » Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:39 pm

The Legacy Of Goku 2 and 3 are the best Dragon Ball video games there are.

There are too many Dragon Ball fighting games, and all the ones released after Budokai 3 are needless.

A remake of Legacy Of Goku where games 2 and 3 are mostly left alone but brought slightly more in-line with each-other in minor ways(LOG2 is made less grindy, LOG3 is made less easy), but 1 is totally remade from scratch to match up to 2 and 3 better would trounce every other Dragon Ball game there has ever been.
The point of Dragon Ball is to enjoy it. Never lose sight of that.

User avatar
PsionicWarrior
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1569
Joined: Mon May 09, 2016 2:33 pm

Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by PsionicWarrior » Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:35 pm

Grimlock wrote:
PsionicWarrior wrote:I am sorry I do not have any other argument than because it's a freaking video game lol
Then you have no argument at all, I can't even call that a "weak argument" because that is way less than "weak". Being a game doesn't matter in the slightest. And I've told you that a story can be told relying on a completely different media than the usual.
Well yeah you kinda got me here, I never ever considered considering video games and while i knew what DBO is I never played it and by looking it up I have to admit the answer is not so obvious lol

WittyUsername
I Live Here
Posts: 4170
Joined: Sun Dec 22, 2013 12:09 am
Location: Houston, Texas

Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by WittyUsername » Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:33 pm

I don’t know if this can be considered a particularly unpopular opinion or not, but I really don’t think that Meredith McCoy’s voice for #18 sounds very masculine or butch. I’ve heard some argue that she makes 18 sound too tough and aggressive, but I don’t really get that impression from the voice or the performance. Her voice sounds fairly feminine to me, just in a different way from Clinkenbeard’s 18. Her voice for Lunch’s blonde haired self is a far better example of a voice that sounds butch.

Ripper 30
OMG CRAZY REGEN
Posts: 788
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2016 4:16 am
Location: India

Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Ripper 30 » Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:12 pm

Bajosexto wrote:
Dbzfan94 wrote:Exactly. If you want a performance similar to the Japanese, just watch the Japanese. A good dub voice doesn't have to sound like the original.
But what if I want a performance similar to the Japanese in English? Do I watch the Japanese? But I want to watch it in English.

I agree with the second part of your comment. A dub actor doesn't need to sound like the original actor. But I just don't like the "Just watch the Japanese if that's what you want" type of response. I've seen it thrown around by people trying to justify bad dubbing practices. Arguing that if you want the dub to be the same experience as the original, then you should just watch the Japanese version. Not saying your one of them. Your comment just happens to remind me to those types of comments.
yea that sounds the most overused argument to defend Bad practices like DBZ's Funimation Dub.
WittyUsername wrote: i don’t know if this can be considered a particularly unpopular opinion or not, but I really don’t think that Meredith McCoy’s voice for #18 sounds very masculine or butch. I’ve heard some argue that she makes 18 sound too tough and aggressive, but I don’t really get that impression from the voice or the performance. Her voice sounds fairly feminine to me, just in a different way from Clinkenbeard’s 18. Her voice for Lunch’s blonde haired self is a far better example of a voice that sounds butch.


her voice sounds too flat and emotionless at times and forced at many points. Her Japanese voice changes according to the situation #18 is and gets sweet and Badass but McCoy voice gives this "Edgy" or overly aggressive feel with the way she speaks. Clinkenbeard sounds better to me than her.
I prefer Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z, DB/Z/GT Movies, Dragon Ball Super and Dragon Ball GT in Japanese.
For DBZ Kai and two new Movies I like both Dub and Sub. I Prefer Shunsuke Kikuchi Soundtracks over All other Composers.
My MAL profile : https://myanimelist.net/profile/Ripper_30

User avatar
ABED
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 20276
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:23 am
Location: Skippack, PA
Contact:

Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by ABED » Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:37 pm

There's flat because the performance is wooden, then there's intentionally flat due to characterization. It's not an unjust reading to think 18 is mostly emotionally detatched. I think Clinkenbeard is the better actress, but McCoy's not bad and she has a unique voice.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.

WittyUsername
I Live Here
Posts: 4170
Joined: Sun Dec 22, 2013 12:09 am
Location: Houston, Texas

Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by WittyUsername » Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:51 pm

Ripper 30 wrote:her voice sounds too flat and emotionless at times and forced at many points. Her Japanese voice changes according to the situation #18 is and gets sweet and Badass but McCoy voice gives this "Edgy" or overly aggressive feel with the way she speaks. Clinkenbeard sounds better to me than her.
I think she’s able to handle #18’s softer moments fine. Her voice does place more emphasis on #18’s deadpan personality than Clinkenbeard, but she generally doesn’t sound forced to me. As a side note, I would say that McCoy has better chemistry with Huber and Strait than Clinkenbeard does.

User avatar
Robo4900
I Live Here
Posts: 4383
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2016 2:24 pm
Location: In another time and place...

Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Robo4900 » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:10 pm

Kyle Hebert is not a good casting for Boo-era Gohan. He's a good choice for him in GT, and even the Z epilogue, but in the main Boo arc, he's supposed to be about 16... He sounds many years older than that.
The point of Dragon Ball is to enjoy it. Never lose sight of that.

User avatar
jeffbr92
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1349
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 10:49 pm
Location: Brazil

Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by jeffbr92 » Fri Jul 13, 2018 3:49 pm

Robo4900 wrote:The Legacy Of Goku 2 and 3 are the best Dragon Ball video games there are.
There's no Legacy Of Goku 3, man... But I kinda agree in parts, I also include with Attack of the Saiyans as one of the best DB RPG games.
Power levels are not just big numbers:

by Doctor.

WittyUsername
I Live Here
Posts: 4170
Joined: Sun Dec 22, 2013 12:09 am
Location: Houston, Texas

Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by WittyUsername » Fri Jul 13, 2018 3:51 pm

jeffbr92 wrote:
Robo4900 wrote:The Legacy Of Goku 2 and 3 are the best Dragon Ball video games there are.
There's no Legacy Of Goku 3, man... But I kinda agree in parts, I also include with Attack of the Saiyans as one of the best DB RPG games.
That would be Buu’s Fury.

User avatar
jeffbr92
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1349
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 10:49 pm
Location: Brazil

Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by jeffbr92 » Fri Jul 13, 2018 3:54 pm

WittyUsername wrote:That would be Buu’s Fury.
Oh liked that game too, but I wish it had SSJ2 as an option to power-up
Power levels are not just big numbers:

by Doctor.

User avatar
MetaMoss
Patreon Supporter
Posts: 614
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 7:14 pm
Location: Portland, Oregon area

Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by MetaMoss » Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:03 pm

jeffbr92 wrote:
WittyUsername wrote:That would be Buu’s Fury.
Oh liked that game too, but I wish it had SSJ2 as an option to power-up
And I wish it had a way to access Vegetto outside of the one fight. They made unique specials for him and everything.
"Perfect" is the enemy of the good. True for Cell and true for real life.
Don't forget to slow down and enjoy yourself.

User avatar
Robo4900
I Live Here
Posts: 4383
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2016 2:24 pm
Location: In another time and place...

Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Robo4900 » Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:29 pm

MetaMoss wrote:
jeffbr92 wrote:
WittyUsername wrote:That would be Buu’s Fury.
Oh liked that game too, but I wish it had SSJ2 as an option to power-up
And I wish it had a way to access Vegetto outside of the one fight. They made unique specials for him and everything.
To clarify: Buu's Fury was very pointedly the third Legacy Of Goku game. No idea why they titled it differently, but it was very definitively Legacy Of Goku 3.

IMO, it was a much more flawed game than the second, in a lot of ways; it was a lot more ambitious, and it did a ton of things that LOG2 didn't do that were great, but the actual implementation wasnt as solid in general as LOG2. Whether that means you prefer LOG2 for being a tighter version of the things it was doing, or LOG3 for its crazier and more expansive scope in general is up to the individual. I haven't played 3 as much as 2, so I haven't really ever made the judgement for sure myself.
I suppose one potential stumbling point of this to talk about was Super Saiyan 2, though I think the implication in the story is that once they figured out how to do Super Saiyan 2, they basically did that wherever possible, and the actual difference between Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan 2 isn't really that much aside from 2 being stronger, but apparently also it's just as sustainable, so... Perhaps the idea is that aside from when Goku and Gohan are demonstrating it, or when they're deliberately holding back, they're just going straight to 2.

I think fusion was a greater loss, though. Although given Vegetto was a Potara fusion, and thus permanent(This was pre-retcon, remember), it would be a bit weird if they did allow you to go Vegetto any time you want.
The point of Dragon Ball is to enjoy it. Never lose sight of that.

User avatar
sintzu
Banned
Posts: 13583
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:41 pm

Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by sintzu » Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:07 pm

Now that its been a few days since the greatness that is Broly was announced to be making his "canon" debut and I've been able to read and watch what everyone's been saying, I don't think it's worth getting upset over anymore. I'm not talking about just Broly but modern DB as I've noticed that every announcement results in fans freaking out which is understandable as I've done it too but at this point it should be clear that this is a different DB from the one we got back in the day.
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.

User avatar
DestructoDisc
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 394
Joined: Wed May 16, 2018 1:07 pm

Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by DestructoDisc » Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:41 pm

I find GT Goten very attractive and Trunks with long hair unattractive.

User avatar
PFM18
Banned Alternate Account
Posts: 3701
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:23 pm

Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by PFM18 » Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:22 pm

DestructoDisc wrote:I find GT Goten very attractive and Trunks with long hair unattractive.
You find anime dudes attractive?

User avatar
Gaffer Tape
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6052
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 5:25 pm
Contact:

Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Gaffer Tape » Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:23 pm

PFM18 wrote:
DestructoDisc wrote:I find GT Goten very attractive and Trunks with long hair unattractive.
You find anime dudes attractive?
*shrugs* This forum does have a "Sexy Fan Art" thread containing nearly 300 pages' worth of posts. Is this really that surprising?
Do you follow the most comprehensive and entertaining Dragon Ball analysis series on YouTube? If you do, you're smart and awesome and fairly attractive. If not, see what all the fuss is about without even having to leave Kanzenshuu:

MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection Series Discussion Thread! (Updated 3/4/24!)
Current Episode: A Hero's Clone - Dragon Ball Dissection: Goku's Side Story! Siu Xing Qiu is a Testament to Courage

Post Reply