Unpopular DB opinions

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ABED
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by ABED » Sun Nov 11, 2018 3:46 pm

I know they are formed by different methods but they are absolutely the same character. Slightly different moves does not a new character make. All this sounds like "Oooooo, look, a shinny new object!" Better comparison, it feels like when toylines would have several variants of the same character. A Batman wearing all black and a Batman with gold armor are both still Batman.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by WittyUsername » Sun Nov 11, 2018 3:58 pm

ABED wrote:I know they are formed by different methods but they are absolutely the same character. Slightly different moves does not a new character make. All this sounds like "Oooooo, look, a shinny new object!" Better comparison, it feels like when toylines would have several variants of the same character. A Batman wearing all black and a Batman with gold armor are both still Batman.
“Oooooo, look, a shiny new object” seems like it more or less sums up the upcoming movie anyway. Personally, my take on the whole thing is that if you’re going to be making Broly “canon”, you might as well go all out by making another popular movie character “canon”. I don’t care much for fan service just for the sake of it, but that’s arguably Dragon Ball’s biggest draw at this point.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Lukmendes » Sun Nov 11, 2018 4:00 pm

PFM18 wrote:
ABED wrote:They have the same moves. It's the same characters fusing. Any new moves isn't due to it being Vegetto or Gogeta. I find the idea that they are two different beings to be silly. It's a paint job at best.
They are two different characters formed by two different fusion methods. Sure, the composition is the same but they are still different characters. Also, we don't know if Toriyama's Gogeta is going to have a different character than Vegetto or something like that.

And I always thought that:

Gogeta -> Stardust Breaker, Big Bang Kamehameha
Vegetto -> Spirit Sword, Final Kamehameha

Were their specific moves.
Funnily enough, Final Kamehameha started as a Gogeta move, but at some point it became more known as a Vegetto move (It was related to him before he showed up in Super even), since Gogeta was the first one who had it in early games:

https://youtu.be/UCOx3xmKgv8?t=539

https://youtu.be/HSwsSuevBmQ?t=486

I think Final Bout was the first time Vegetto got Final Kamehameha, but I doubt it was that game that made him known for having it:

https://youtu.be/xzuGGTUYElA?t=260

It's not far fetched to assume that they just gave Vegetto the Final Kamehameha because Gogeta got Big Bang Kamehameha in GT years later.
jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Mar 12, 2022 12:08 am My man, all Goku had to do was go SSJ3 and shock Vegeta so much the M on his head would have turned into an L and Buu would have never happened.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by sunsetshimmer » Sun Nov 11, 2018 4:01 pm

Vegito was different because Toriyama wanted to include fusion in story without copying everything from DBZ Movie 12.

Tbh they should have the same personality. Gogeta in movie had like 1 or 2 lines and 2 minutes of screentime, yet people can talk about his personality and say GT Gogeta is nothing like Gogeta (basically nothing like character that didn't have time to display any personality :roll: ) but more like Vegito (that is a fusion of the same characters for god's sake...).

Would DBS Gogeta be like Vegito/GT Gogeta or more like "real" Gogeta? Hard to say. People probably would prefer DBS Gogeta to be serious badass but it's dumb because he has Goku's personality and his behaviour SHOULD depend on circumstances. DBS Vegito was more serious than DBZ Vegito because he had harder time to beat his opponent. GT Gogeta was leagues above Omega and so was playing with him. Still, he actually became a lot more serious after he kicked out Omega's attack and was actually ready to finish the job.

Saying Vegito is the funny one and Gogeta is the serious badass is stupid.
Fans call serious Vegito or funny Gogeta moments to be out of character facepalm

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Lukmendes » Sun Nov 11, 2018 4:33 pm

sunsetshimmer wrote:Vegito was different because Toriyama wanted to include fusion in story without copying everything from DBZ Movie 12.

Tbh they should have the same personality. Gogeta in movie had like 1 or 2 lines and 2 minutes of screentime, yet people can talk about his personality and say GT Gogeta is nothing like Gogeta (basically nothing like character that didn't have time to display any personality :roll: ) but more like Vegito (that is a fusion of the same characters for god's sake...).

Would DBS Gogeta be like Vegito/GT Gogeta or more like "real" Gogeta? Hard to say. People probably would prefer DBS Gogeta to be serious badass but it's dumb because he has Goku's personality and his behaviour SHOULD depend on circumstances. DBS Vegito was more serious than DBZ Vegito because he had harder time to beat his opponent. GT Gogeta was leagues above Omega and so was playing with him. Still, he actually became a lot more serious after he kicked out Omega's attack and was actually ready to finish the job.

Saying Vegito is the funny one and Gogeta is the serious badass is stupid.
Fans call serious Vegito or funny Gogeta moments to be out of character facepalm

Image
Eh, both Goku and Vegeta have their own personality quirks, so two different fusion methods sharing the exact same quirks in the exact same way is not a necessity, Vegeta likes to mock opponents and Goku is a goofier character who likes to enjoy a fight, so Vegetto turning out as someone who constantly mocks their opponents (Even against fusion Zamasu, which Vegetto was a bit more serious than against Boo, he kept mocking Zamasu the whole fight), is one way to combine those quirks, but if another fusion picks less of Vegeta's quirk to humiliate opponents and pick more of his shorter fuse and Goku's respect for his opponents, then, potentialy you'd get a bit rude character who compliments his opponents but gets annoyed and interested at being surpassed.

Basicaly what I'm saying is, fusions don't necessarily have to be so cut and dry with how a character's personality is going to be like, it doesn't have to be a "2+2=4" situation.
jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Mar 12, 2022 12:08 am My man, all Goku had to do was go SSJ3 and shock Vegeta so much the M on his head would have turned into an L and Buu would have never happened.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by sunsetshimmer » Sun Nov 11, 2018 7:31 pm

Lukmendes wrote: Eh, both Goku and Vegeta have their own personality quirks, so two different fusion methods sharing the exact same quirks in the exact same way is not a necessity, Vegeta likes to mock opponents and Goku is a goofier character who likes to enjoy a fight, so Vegetto turning out as someone who constantly mocks their opponents (Even against fusion Zamasu, which Vegetto was a bit more serious than against Boo, he kept mocking Zamasu the whole fight), is one way to combine those quirks, but if another fusion picks less of Vegeta's quirk to humiliate opponents and pick more of his shorter fuse and Goku's respect for his opponents, then, potentialy you'd get a bit rude character who compliments his opponents but gets annoyed and interested at being surpassed.

Basicaly what I'm saying is, fusions don't necessarily have to be so cut and dry with how a character's personality is going to be like, it doesn't have to be a "2+2=4" situation.
Sure, it's good to have both fusion behave a bit different (having both in franchise would be pointless otherwise) but it doesn't mean Gogeta being cocky and Vegito being serious is out of character in any way.
"I will concede that your feelings are worthy of the mightiest of Saiyans. However, there is more to my power than just this. Before you die, I will show it to you. This is the difference in power, between the primitive Saiyans and the evolved Tsufruians." ~Baby Vegeta

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Kataphrut » Sun Nov 11, 2018 8:14 pm

It's this annoying situation where Toriyama has created a scenario where Goku and Vegeta are defined by their quests for individual growth and hate the idea of fusing to achieve power. But their fusions are the most marketable because everyone wants to see a hybrid of the two main guys in action. So they end up having to force a token conflict before they can get to the good stuff. At least give GT credit for being honest and having them jump straight into it.

I still don't get why people are more excited for Gogeta to become canon. At least Vegetto has had two decent fight sequences in his appearances that make the most of his unique moves and his cocky-but-can-actually-back-it-up personality. Whereas Gogeta is an instant win button in his first appearance and a drop-kick in his second. Only thing he's got over Vegetto is a better name.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by ABED » Sun Nov 11, 2018 9:11 pm

Kataphrut wrote:It's this annoying situation where Toriyama has created a scenario where Goku and Vegeta are defined by their quests for individual growth and hate the idea of fusing to achieve power. But their fusions are the most marketable because everyone wants to see a hybrid of the two main guys in action. So they end up having to force a token conflict before they can get to the good stuff. At least give GT credit for being honest and having them jump straight into it.
It's not forced if as you said it yourself, they're defined by their quests for individual growth and don't like the idea of fusing together. It's the opposite of forced. The scenario in GT was different. They had no other choice given the scale of the threat.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Hulk10 » Sun Nov 11, 2018 9:35 pm

PFM18 wrote:
Hulk10 wrote:Are you guys saying that Gogeta will appear in the new movie?
Lol, yeah that is very old news. You didn't know?

Oh wait, you're just being sarcastic aren't you?
No I am not. I haven't heard anything about Gogeta being in the Broly movie.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by PFM18 » Sun Nov 11, 2018 9:51 pm

Hulk10 wrote:
PFM18 wrote:
Hulk10 wrote:Are you guys saying that Gogeta will appear in the new movie?
Lol, yeah that is very old news. You didn't know?

Oh wait, you're just being sarcastic aren't you?
No I am not. I haven't heard anything about Gogeta being in the Broly movie.
Lol then you must have been living under a rock. Toei leaked it several different ways apparently.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Hulk10 » Sun Nov 11, 2018 10:17 pm

PFM18 wrote:
Hulk10 wrote:
PFM18 wrote:
Lol, yeah that is very old news. You didn't know?

Oh wait, you're just being sarcastic aren't you?
No I am not. I haven't heard anything about Gogeta being in the Broly movie.
Lol then you must have been living under a rock. Toei leaked it several different ways apparently.
That or I just wasn't paying attention. I've just now read that its not conclusive yet but if its true its interesting. We get Broly and Gogeta together. I call that a bargain.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by PFM18 » Sun Nov 11, 2018 10:18 pm

Hulk10 wrote:
PFM18 wrote:
Hulk10 wrote:
No I am not. I haven't heard anything about Gogeta being in the Broly movie.
Lol then you must have been living under a rock. Toei leaked it several different ways apparently.
That or I just wasn't paying attention. I've just now read that its not conclusive yet but if its true its interesting. We get Broly and Gogeta together. I call that a bargain.
It's not confirmed by official sources but we pretty much know for a fact he is appearing and we have for months.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by zDBZ » Sun Nov 11, 2018 11:47 pm

- While it makes little to no sense given the rules of the afterlife (at least at that point in the series), King Kai's bringing the Ginyu Force to his planet to test Yamcha, Tien, and Chaoutzu was a lot of fun and some of the best filler in the Freeza saga.

- I kind of like the filler subplot of Bulma and Ginyu too.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Lukmendes » Sun Nov 11, 2018 11:56 pm

sunsetshimmer wrote:
Lukmendes wrote: Eh, both Goku and Vegeta have their own personality quirks, so two different fusion methods sharing the exact same quirks in the exact same way is not a necessity, Vegeta likes to mock opponents and Goku is a goofier character who likes to enjoy a fight, so Vegetto turning out as someone who constantly mocks their opponents (Even against fusion Zamasu, which Vegetto was a bit more serious than against Boo, he kept mocking Zamasu the whole fight), is one way to combine those quirks, but if another fusion picks less of Vegeta's quirk to humiliate opponents and pick more of his shorter fuse and Goku's respect for his opponents, then, potentialy you'd get a bit rude character who compliments his opponents but gets annoyed and interested at being surpassed.

Basicaly what I'm saying is, fusions don't necessarily have to be so cut and dry with how a character's personality is going to be like, it doesn't have to be a "2+2=4" situation.
Sure, it's good to have both fusion behave a bit different (having both in franchise would be pointless otherwise) but it doesn't mean Gogeta being cocky and Vegito being serious is out of character in any way.
Never even mentioned Gogeta or Vegetto being out of character though, at best it can be said that Gogeta was compared to his Fusion Reborn version, but the next episode has Goku explaining he got too excited at getting so strong during the fusion, so Gogeta ended up playing around, it's understandable.
jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Mar 12, 2022 12:08 am My man, all Goku had to do was go SSJ3 and shock Vegeta so much the M on his head would have turned into an L and Buu would have never happened.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Hulk10 » Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:33 am

PFM18 wrote:
Hulk10 wrote:
PFM18 wrote:
Lol then you must have been living under a rock. Toei leaked it several different ways apparently.
That or I just wasn't paying attention. I've just now read that its not conclusive yet but if its true its interesting. We get Broly and Gogeta together. I call that a bargain.
It's not confirmed by official sources but we pretty much know for a fact he is appearing and we have for months.
Well it would be nice if it turns out to be true.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by PFM18 » Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:35 am

Hulk10 wrote:
PFM18 wrote:
Hulk10 wrote:
That or I just wasn't paying attention. I've just now read that its not conclusive yet but if its true its interesting. We get Broly and Gogeta together. I call that a bargain.
It's not confirmed by official sources but we pretty much know for a fact he is appearing and we have for months.
Well it would be nice if it turns out to be true.
No it's DEFINITELY true. Gogeta and Broly are the next DLC for Xenoverse and there were oice actors already came out and said they were practicing Gogeta. Now Geekdom confirmed what we already had pretty much knew.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Hulk10 » Mon Nov 12, 2018 2:08 am

PFM18 wrote:
Hulk10 wrote:
PFM18 wrote:
It's not confirmed by official sources but we pretty much know for a fact he is appearing and we have for months.
Well it would be nice if it turns out to be true.
No it's DEFINITELY true. Gogeta and Broly are the next DLC for Xenoverse and there were oice actors already came out and said they were practicing Gogeta. Now Geekdom confirmed what we already had pretty much knew.
I see. Well that's cool.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by MasenkoHA » Thu Nov 15, 2018 11:27 am

I don’t like referring to the first thirteen episodes as the Pilaf saga as many seem to do. As it implies Pilaf was a bigger more prominent threat than he actually was and most of his stuff is anime-only filler. Shenron saga makes makes more sense

Similarly, I know a lot of fans divide Red Ribbon army saga as: Red Ribbon Army, General Blue, Mercenary Tao Pei Pei, and Commander Red but to me its all just Red Ribbon Army saga

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Noah » Thu Nov 15, 2018 6:10 pm

Tian wrote:You can call me weirdo but... I don't find Android 21 too hot as others do.
Her base not so much, but her pink form, hell yea
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by sunsetshimmer » Fri Nov 16, 2018 9:09 pm

Noah wrote:
Tian wrote:You can call me weirdo but... I don't find Android 21 too hot as others do.
Her base not so much, but her pink form, hell yea
Her base is much more attractive to me. At least on official arts and fan arts.
I have no idea how this character is portrayed in FighterZ since i have no interest in this game.
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