Where would the series be if YOU were Toriyama?

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Where would the series be if YOU were Toriyama?

Post by DoomieDoomie911 » Sat Sep 08, 2012 8:58 pm

What would you have done with the series if you were Toriyama? Would you have kept it like it started, an adventurous gag manga? Would you have made it with even more action?

I would have kept it a gag manga for the whole series, with a little action here and there. I really liked the Hunt for the Dragon Balls Ark, so I would have kept that thing going.
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Re: Where would the series be if YOU were Toriyama?

Post by JulieYBM » Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:27 pm

I think Dragon Ball went in the best direction is could have gone. Change is good. Too many comics refuse to change, so they become terrible. Dragon Ball changed, many times, as such it continued to grow better and more interesting.

Today, if I was behind Dragon Ball, I would like to see more celebrations of the staff who helped produce it. The animators, the directors, the voice actors, the musicians, etc. Of course, I would also like to see more animation produced, of course! :P
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Re: Where would the series be if YOU were Toriyama?

Post by penguintruth » Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:09 pm

I would have kept writing storylines for the manga until the fingers on my hands were worn down nubs, raking in so much money that I could afford to build a castle made of daimond. The heads of Kishimoto, Kubo, and Oda would be on pikes out in front and the moat filled with the tears of my editors. Dragon Ball would go onto be 70 volumes long and end when Goku, who has long outlived everybody else by sheer will, dies of an overdose of bursitis medication and instead of going to the afterlife, is made into a replacement dragon for Shenlong, who was gunned down four days before retirement by the Dragon Gangsters. The last page is Pan's great-grandson marrying Arale (also still around for some reason... probably because she's a robot) as Goku looks out from the dragon realm with pride.

Then I would declare myself the new Emperor of Japan and start firing cannonballs at passersby. The JSDF will be called in, but Norio Wakamoto will devestate them with his voice. Then the world will tremble.
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Re: Where would the series be if YOU were Toriyama?

Post by ShinRogafuken » Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:15 pm

penguintruth wrote:I would have kept writing storylines for the manga until the fingers on my hands were worn down nubs, raking in so much money that I could afford to build a castle made of daimond. The heads of Kishimoto, Kubo, and Oda would be on pikes out in front and the moat filled with the tears of my editors. Dragon Ball would go onto be 70 volumes long and end when Goku, who has long outlived everybody else by sheer will, dies of an overdose of bursitis medication and instead of going to the afterlife, is made into a replacement dragon for Shenlong, who was gunned down four days before retirement by the Dragon Gangsters. The last page is Pan's great-grandson marrying Arale (also still around for some reason... probably because she's a robot) as Goku looks out from the dragon realm with pride.

Then I would declare myself the new Emperor of Japan and start firing cannonballs at passersby. The JSDF will be called in, but Norio Wakamoto will devestate them with his voice. Then the world will tremble.
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Re: Where would the series be if YOU were Toriyama?

Post by BlazingFiddlesticks » Sun Sep 09, 2012 1:24 am

Part of the problem with asking me the question is that Dragon Ball by it's faults and virtues has taught me a few things about how to write these sorts of stories- I'm sure it's done so for a lot of people who overanalyze it. That and I can't imagine being under a weekly deadline; giving the story the amount of thought I think it should get, the actual drawing of the panels, and everything else in my life, something would give.

But you wanted answers, not denials, so I'll think. I would cut both the power creep and the number of transformations, though both of those are some of the closest to givens in something like this. I would likely think of a particular value I want each character or villain to contribute, for the sake of contrast and so that its harder to toss them aside- a smaller cast with greater synergy and depth is better than a larger one with less overlap. The comedy would be in a different taste and emphasis; while you can't blame Toriyama for it, the early toilet humor contrasts pretty harshly with the other... 70ish% of the series is left when it dies down. Perhaps a dash more self-awareness among the characters; though it wouldn't be the prime reason or a big influence, it's interesting just how many of Abridged's jokes and observations wouldn't be foreign coming from the non-exaggerated character's moth. It wouldn't have to be cynical from cover to cover, of course, that's rarely funny.
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Re: Where would the series be if YOU were Toriyama?

Post by Rocketman » Sun Sep 09, 2012 1:44 am

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Re: Where would the series be if YOU were Toriyama?

Post by OutlawTorn » Sun Sep 09, 2012 2:13 am

I think, looking back, the only real changes I would have made would be seriously scaling back the Super Saiyan concept, as the transformations and such are really more of a crutch than an intriguing story device.

In terms of the animé, its problems are rooted in the mentality that there has to be a constant stream of episodes from the onset to conclusion. The stretched out and pointless episodes are all prime examples of producing episodes for the sake of producing them so, give the long running stories seasonal breaks so they don't have to pad the story to keep from getting ahead of the manga. This not only has the advantage of providing better pacing for the animé, but also eliminating the need to employ the "lower quality" studios in order to meet deadlines.

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Re: Where would the series be if YOU were Toriyama?

Post by Bussani » Sun Sep 09, 2012 2:15 am

If I were Toriyama, Dragon Ball would probably still be going, but would be on hiatus more often than not due to my laziness.

Basically, it would be Hunter x Hunter.
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Re: Where would the series be if YOU were Toriyama?

Post by Saiga » Sun Sep 09, 2012 2:41 am

If I were Toriyama, I would have been looking at some of the movie villain designs, told Toei to fuck off and use them in the manga like a greedy little bastard.

I'd have Goku pass the torch to Gohan, who would in turn pass the torch to (adult) Goten and Trunks, who would in turn pass it onto Pan and Oob.
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Re: Where would the series be if YOU were Toriyama?

Post by Hellspawn28 » Sun Sep 09, 2012 2:51 am

Had it ended in 1995 like it is now. If I was drawing a series for 10+ years then I would end it there. If I return to the series after many years later then I feel like the fans would be let down since it's not what they have in mind.
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Re: Where would the series be if YOU were Toriyama?

Post by funrush » Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:57 am

I would either:
A) End it after Freeza
B) Continue after Freeza, but permanently kill Goku off
C) Let Goku live, but not let him go SSJ until the end of the series.

And I would let Gohan have the spotlight in the Buu Saga instead of handing it to Goku again.

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Re: Where would the series be if YOU were Toriyama?

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:01 am

I would let it as it is, until Boo Arc. I would let Goku & Vegeta dead, with Ultimate Gohan & SS3 Gotenks finishing Majin Boo together.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

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Re: Where would the series be if YOU were Toriyama?

Post by Cipher » Sun Sep 09, 2012 12:01 pm

What series?

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Re: Where would the series be if YOU were Toriyama?

Post by Eire » Sun Sep 09, 2012 12:09 pm

You would have need a magnificent glass to find any plot hole in that, discuss Sayians social structures instead of power levels, and have a lots of female characters to fall in love with. :mrgreen:
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Re: Where would the series be if YOU were Toriyama?

Post by Hades » Sun Sep 09, 2012 5:20 pm

I'd have gone for an Alan Moore style deconstruction of shonen - basically ask "what would Shonen characters actually be like?"

Goku would be the gullible fool whose naivete and purity is manipulated by foes

Krillin (and to an extent Vegeta) would be the Only Sane Men.

Tenshinhan would represent humanity's inability to hold a candle to the protagonists.

Gohan would be a mental wreck that could fill dissertations on psychology a la Batman following the first Saiyan fight.

Roshi's perversions are taken more seriously and everyone eventually ostracises him.

Chi-Chi is driven insane and put in a mental hospital for several arcs.

When a Super Saiyan Transformation takes place, the subject embarks on a Broly-esque Rampage and the last rampage required the Kaioshin (we don't see him until Buu arc) to step in, according to legend. That's what gets Freeza scared, especially since he's afraid that the Kaioshin may come for him next. It is revealed that during the Freeza fight, Kaioshin seriously considered stepping in since he was afraid of either a Super Saiyan or an immortal Freeza, but decided to wait things out. Goku is barely able to control his rage when fighting Freeza, and ultimately kills Freeza when Krillin is killed.

After he is brought back from death during the Freeza fight, Vegeta decides to swallow his pride. This leads to him killing Cell in his second form and killing Android 18 rather than letting Cell become perfect.

Babidi is a Power behind the throne figure and it is revealed that Freeza was his puppet the whole time. Majin Buu was a long-forgotten weapon from a war fought between the Kaioshin and the Demon Realm, and Babidi thinks that it could enable him to take over the universe. Goku is manipulated into becoming Babidi's servant and this leads to a massive fight between Goku and the rest of the heroes. Ultimately Goku is killed and Babidi is stopped before Buu is awakened, but not without an unbelievable cost.
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Re: Where would the series be if YOU were Toriyama?

Post by OutlawTorn » Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:15 pm

Cipher wrote:What series?
Dragon Ball, no bloody Z, GT or (Z) Kai. (nice little Star Trek reference for anybody who cares) considering, with the exception of GT of course, there is no separation in the original story.

I think one thing we're forgetting is even Toriyama didn't get to do things exactly as he wanted to, so it would be interesting to see where Dragon Ball would have gone had he been able to veto his editors and had final say over everything. Alas, we will never know.

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Re: Where would the series be if YOU were Toriyama?

Post by Aoi » Mon Sep 10, 2012 9:21 am

OutlawTorn wrote:
Cipher wrote:What series?
Dragon Ball, no bloody Z, GT or (Z) Kai. (nice little Star Trek reference for anybody who cares) considering, with the exception of GT of course, there is no separation in the original story.

I think one thing we're forgetting is even Toriyama didn't get to do things exactly as he wanted to, so it would be interesting to see where Dragon Ball would have gone had he been able to veto his editors and had final say over everything. Alas, we will never know.
Who knows, maybe his work would have gone the way of the Star Wars prequels. That's the main lesson I've learned from George Lucas having no one to report to. :lol:

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Re: Where would the series be if YOU were Toriyama?

Post by Kaboom » Mon Sep 10, 2012 9:56 am

Barely past Pilaf.

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Re: Where would the series be if YOU were Toriyama?

Post by Herms » Mon Sep 10, 2012 10:52 am

Dagon Ball: adventure, friendship, Cosmic Horror.
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Re: Where would the series be if YOU were Toriyama?

Post by Necrosaber » Mon Sep 10, 2012 1:28 pm

OutlawTorn wrote:
Cipher wrote:What series?
Dragon Ball, no bloody Z, GT or (Z) Kai. (nice little Star Trek reference for anybody who cares) considering, with the exception of GT of course, there is no separation in the original story.

I think one thing we're forgetting is even Toriyama didn't get to do things exactly as he wanted to, so it would be interesting to see where Dragon Ball would have gone had he been able to veto his editors and had final say over everything. Alas, we will never know.
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