GT appreciation

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GT appreciation

Post by Insertclevername » Sun Dec 09, 2012 7:56 pm

Is anyone here a little sick of dismissive comments like "because GT sucks" or "It's non canon, so it doesn't count" and kind of wish people could, I don't know, appreciate some of the good qualities about GT and what they liked about it. Well, in this thread, I'm hoping to create a discussion geared towards what we like about the third anime series. So, what do you like about the series best? The art style? The new music direction? Some of the cool, albeit underutilized ideas & concepts? Anything is up for discussion! Perhaps even share any personal experiences and memories of the series.
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Re: GT appreciation

Post by TheMightyOzaru » Sun Dec 09, 2012 8:08 pm

While I may not be a big fan of GT I would definitely like to see some appreciation because it did bring cool things to the table like the Shadow Dragons and SSJ4. Super Saiyan 4 is definitely the best part. You know I think if Toei got a second shot at GT they could probably fix it. Just try and pertain to the manga and you're golden. I've always wanted to make a manga of my own take on GT but sadly my art isnt good enough for that.
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Re: GT appreciation

Post by VegettoEX » Sun Dec 09, 2012 8:09 pm

This comes up every once in a while, and people are more than happy to bring up what they feel some of the "good" elements are -- speaking on my own, but also stating some of these things I see from other people, these would be things like the musical score, the concept behind the evil dragons, getting more use out of Goku with him as a child, etc.

The problem is... it seems that the rest of the show just weighs down all of these things. It's nice to talk about those few nice elements every once in a while, and I fully encourage you to, but in the end it's just such a sloppy piece of storytelling that you're going to end up with far more apathetic-to-dismissive comments than you are "HOLY CRAP BEST SHOW EVER" comments.
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Re: GT appreciation

Post by Hellspawn28 » Sun Dec 09, 2012 8:23 pm

The Bebi Saga and Super 17's design are the only things that I liked about GT. I guess some of the music was good and the Shadow Dragons were pretty cool, but that's about it for me. GT is like Highlander 2 of the Dragon Ball franchise. The show sucked so bad which is why most fans ignore it.
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Re: GT appreciation

Post by Fizzer » Sun Dec 09, 2012 8:27 pm

I really liked the music, and how GT made better use of "emotional" scenes and inter-character relationships than the other two series did. The Baby arc is one of my favourite arcs from all three animes. The ending was better than the DBZ ending.

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Re: GT appreciation

Post by Cipher » Sun Dec 09, 2012 8:28 pm

I think one of the primary reasons it's dismissed so much more often is also because it has a different creative team, and you can tell, if not so much in terms of the story then at least in how it segues in from the end of Z. And it leaves itself open to more critiquing that way -- being the sole by-committee adendum to an otherwise creator-driven series. "Was this worth doing?" or "Does this fit the series?" suddenly become more relevant questions than when Toriyama himself is at the helm and, as much as I like GT, I think that's fair and I have those thoughts all the time when I watch it.

I like GT. I like it as a finale, I like its art and music, and I like its overall nostalgic tone. I'd like to see it remain part of the Dragon Ball canon (in the traditional sense of the word; not touching it otherwise) in the future, although I think any hypothetical remakes would do well to restructure portions. It has flaws, and I don't feel bad for nitpicking them more than Toriyama's arcs.

Still, I think it adds more good than bad, so there you go. And I do think there's still a lot of vitriol that stems from, probably, ire that such a thing was even made back in 1996 that has been passed second-hand through the community to an extent that goes beyond the fair critiquing I talked about above.

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Re: GT appreciation

Post by TheMightyOzaru » Sun Dec 09, 2012 8:43 pm

I'm probably one of the few that didnt like the art direction. yes Syn/Omega Shenron and SSJ4 look cool but the rest of the art direction suffers a good deal IMO. I dont like Baby's look, I dont like Rildo's look, I dont like Vegeta's mustache look, I dont like Super 17's look, and I dont care for a portion of the Shadow Dragon designs. The music was alright though. I dont think its as good as Kikuchi's original score but hey its alright. As for whether or not the series itself is necessary, I'm gonna say no but it's a decent watch when you get bored. Thats only for the Japanese version though. I practically cant stand the funimation dub of the series. So many errors. Again I would love to see a reimagining of the series. It had good qualities but Toei failed to utilize them to there full potential.
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Re: GT appreciation

Post by Thanos » Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:12 pm

I think they could've gone above and beyond by hiring some real talent to do the series, but ultimately it seems like one long filler show.
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Re: GT appreciation

Post by Sin » Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:36 pm

I enjoyed it, it was the first DB series I watched all the way through and whilst I got a little bored at some points there was enough to keep me going and I really liked a lot of the concepts like Super 17. I think an issue was probably less with the concepts themselves and more with the execution, the series itself has the grim atmosphere to it and I can't see I'm a fan of the art direction.

I also had problems with Goku becoming a kid again, I mean I know they wanted to recapture Dragon Ball but this was not the right way to go about it, I didn't want to see the show take a step back after Dragonball Z, I wanted it to develop on everything that was present on Z.

Most enjoyable of all was the Hero's Legacy special, that made up for any issues I had with GT.

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Re: GT appreciation

Post by Ringworm128 » Sun Dec 09, 2012 10:05 pm

I think Baby is one of the best villains in the entire DB franchise. Also SSJ4 is awesome.

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Re: GT appreciation

Post by Jackal puFF » Sun Dec 09, 2012 10:25 pm

I just love the whole idea of GT than the actual show itself..

The GT designs by Toriyama are really neat. The Spaceship is my favorite.

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Re: GT appreciation

Post by dbzfan7 » Sun Dec 09, 2012 10:34 pm

SSJ4 is awesome, the black star saga sucked, Bebi saga was good but needs some work, super 17 was pointless, loved the shadow dragons concept, but it also needed some work.

Kaboom did a better job for the black star saga on his fanfic then GT did officially.
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Re: GT appreciation

Post by B » Sun Dec 09, 2012 10:51 pm

I think the crux of the matter is that these accusations of hating only come up when we(the fans in general, not just Kanzenshuu) are asked to seriously look at GT and ask why it did the things it did from an in-universe perspective. And, speaking for me personally, that becomes hard to do the further you entrench yourself into the out-of-universe reasons the show even exists. Any plot or characterization discrepancy can honestly be chalked up to "they needed the series to be longer to make more money" and/or "the staff honestly wasn't that great at their jobs." Canon is a related, but extremely separate issue from that. Not to sway anyone away from dissecting the series if they want to; the podcast is doing that right now, even!

I'm completely in agreement with Cipher that GT is a part of Dragon Ball's "franchise canon," for lack of a better term, and shouldn't, and probably can't, be forgotten.
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Re: GT appreciation

Post by bleed0range » Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:20 pm

I appreciate that the show ended in only 64 episodes. (hehehe)

But seriously, the whole concept of exploring space to search for dragon balls was a good one... it just wasn't executed well. I always felt like had toriyama continued the manga with this concept it would have ended up being far more interesting. I like the evil dragons aspect, yeah... and that's about it.

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Post by AnimeMaakuo » Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:26 pm

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Re: GT appreciation

Post by theoriginalbilis » Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:28 pm

I feel that it's a bad show, but sometimes bad can be fun. For example, I own M.D. Geist, Mad Bull 34, and Angel Cop. All pretty bad anime, but they're sure as hell fun to sit back and watch. They have a weird charm to them, and I do find a similar weird charm to GT, even though many of the episodes are boring as sin.

I believe GT's fight choreography is one of the biggest reasons the show isn't held in as high regard as DB/DBZ. The action scenes were overall lazily constructed, and even though most of the DBZ movies had crummy stories as well, at least the fights were still exciting and dynamic, and folks remember them fondly overall. We should've gotten the storyboard people who worked on DBZ Movies 3, 12, and 13...then I'm sure the fights would been more exciting than what they are.
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Re: GT appreciation

Post by Bussani » Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:36 am

Every idea GT had was a good one. Every single one. That's how I feel. Unfortunately, the show just didn't execute it right. It had--no, it has so much potential, which is why people are so inclined to try to rewrite their own versions of it (GTR obviously being the most prominent example). I've watched GT all the way through at least half a dozen times, which is way more than I've watched the rest of the anime, the movies, etc.

All that said, I don't think there's anything wrong with dismissing GT stuff during a discussion, assuming the discussion isn't about GT itself. If I'm talking about what Toriyama intended the legendary Super Saiyan to be, of course I don't care what GT says. That doesn't mean I hate it; it's just not relevant to that particular topic. Then again, sometimes I'll mention it as an aside anyway, because why not?
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Re: GT appreciation

Post by medama_oyaji » Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:43 am

I love the concept of GT. I love kid Goku, and it's cool to have a child Goku that can go SSJ (why not, right?). I love the idea of skewing it a little younger again, with Trunks being the oldest main character (basically) and having them adventure through space. Really fun concept! I even like Pan! I think the dynamic between the travelers is nice and diverse, everybody serves a purpose and plays off of each other pretty well. I like Toriyama's designs too! They look great, of course. Just a failure in execution, I guess! I also like the look of the show, and the opening theme is good. So a lot of good points, I think!

I still haven't seen all of GT. I'm actually looking forward to going through it all with the podcast. I tried watching it on my own a few years ago and lost interest. I've mentioned this before on the forum, and this is supposed to be a positive thread, so I won't go into that. Anyway, I think maybe watching it in small chunks with Mike & the gang is going to make it a little easier to deal with than the idea of marathoning it. Bite size tastes! :D

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Re: GT appreciation

Post by Saiga » Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:00 am

Bussani wrote:Every idea GT had was a good one. Every single one. That's how I feel. Unfortunately, the show just didn't execute it right. It had--no, it has so much potential, which is why people are so inclined to try to rewrite their own versions of it (GTR obviously being the most prominent example). I've watched GT all the way through at least half a dozen times, which is way more than I've watched the rest of the anime, the movies, etc.


Does the Toei wank of Goku count as one of those ideas? :wink:
Bussani wrote: All that said, I don't think there's anything wrong with dismissing GT stuff during a discussion, assuming the discussion isn't about GT itself. If I'm talking about what Toriyama intended the legendary Super Saiyan to be, of course I don't care what GT says. That doesn't mean I hate it; it's just not relevant to that particular topic. Then again, sometimes I'll mention it as an aside anyway, because why not?
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Re: GT appreciation

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:01 am

It didn't make me want to castrate myself....... that counts as appreciation, right?

Oh and I liked the Japanese soundtrack.
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DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
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