Brilliant (but subtle) writing in Dragonball

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Attitudefan
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Brilliant (but subtle) writing in Dragonball

Post by Attitudefan » Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:29 pm

The 1st episode of the Z portion of Dragonball was brilliantly written and I have never really thought about it until now. The story comes together with the origin story of Goku and his alter ego, Kakarot. All of Goku's friends are there to have a party, I guess to celebrate after not seeing each other in a while. Goku's origins are revisited: his friendly rival with Krillin, his old master Kame-Senin, and his companion Bulma are there to take center stage within the first chapters much like it did in Dragonball. The only one missing is Yamcha but he is mentioned non-the-less for a gag (as his character becomes within the fandom, which is a little bit of foreshadowing). Kakarot's origins are visited as well to contrast Goku's happy go lucky story.
So, the contrast of bringing Goku's two origins stories contrast each other in a very compelling narrative. The clash of Raditz's personae and Goku's friends is an insightful way to hook an audience. I think the contrast was so subtle but very important to the impact the first chapters of Z really had!
My favourite art style (and animation) outside Toriyama who worked on Dragon Ball: Katsuyoshi Nakatsuru, Masaki Satō, Minoru Maeda, Takeo Ide, Hisashi Eguchi, Katsumi Aoshima, Tomekichi Takeuchi, Masahiro Shimanuki, Kazuya Hisada

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Re: Brilliant (but subtle) writing in Dragonball

Post by Ringworm128 » Thu Mar 07, 2013 7:27 am

I've always thought Jheese's death was handled well, it sort of came out of nowhere but it didn't seem like it was quickly squeezed in, overall it flows really well with everything else.

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Re: Brilliant (but subtle) writing in Dragonball

Post by MCDaveG » Thu Mar 07, 2013 7:34 am

Only thing I didn't liked after is how Raditz became such weakling pretty quick....
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Re: Brilliant (but subtle) writing in Dragonball

Post by Attitudefan » Thu Mar 07, 2013 4:39 pm

MCDaveG wrote:Only thing I didn't liked after is how Raditz became such weakling pretty quick....
Which seems to undermine the first couple of chapters/episodes which is a shame. Raditz even says he is a top class warrior and wears the same armour as Nappa.
My favourite art style (and animation) outside Toriyama who worked on Dragon Ball: Katsuyoshi Nakatsuru, Masaki Satō, Minoru Maeda, Takeo Ide, Hisashi Eguchi, Katsumi Aoshima, Tomekichi Takeuchi, Masahiro Shimanuki, Kazuya Hisada

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Re: Brilliant (but subtle) writing in Dragonball

Post by hleV » Thu Mar 07, 2013 4:46 pm

Now when I think about it, it's too much of a coincidence that Raditz shows up exactly the day when Goku and Co. meet up again after years.

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Re: Brilliant (but subtle) writing in Dragonball

Post by matt0044 » Thu Mar 07, 2013 4:50 pm

Right before he dies on Namek, Vegeta tells Goku he wants Frieza to die by a Saiyan's hand. Guess who does ultimately kill Frieza? Not only a Saiyan, but Vegeta's son, Trunks!

Piccolo swore to avenge his father's death at the hands of Goku by killing him. I just realized he did along with Raditz and after that (Goku's body is still warm) he becomes a good guy, shown by training Gohan. As soon as he completes his oath, he starts walking his own path.

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Re: Brilliant (but subtle) writing in Dragonball

Post by Fizzer » Thu Mar 07, 2013 5:18 pm

Also, in the first episode of Z, the sabre-toothed tiger from the first episode of DB makes an appearance, but we can't put that down to Toriyama.

A favourite of mine is one of the things brought up in the "It's Over 9000" book, that Vegeta's attack names are spoken in English, symbolising that his mindset (along with those of other aliens not from Earth) is rather Western compared to the Eastern martial arts of Goku and friends. The fighters from Earth are spiritual martial artists, but the aliens are very technological.

Another is that Cell made a television broadcast in order to spread fear around the world, and then waited to fight Goku "in the ring". These are both things that Piccolo did, and Cell has some of Piccolo's genetic code and memories.

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Re: Brilliant (but subtle) writing in Dragonball

Post by Super Gazellian » Thu Mar 07, 2013 5:28 pm

matt0044 wrote:Right before he dies on Namek, Vegeta tells Goku he wants Freeza to die by a Saiyan's hand. Guess who does ultimately kill Freeza? Not only a Saiyan, but Vegeta's son, Trunks!

Piccolo swore to avenge his father's death at the hands of Goku by killing him. I just realized he did along with Raditz and after that (Goku's body is still warm) he becomes a good guy, shown by training Gohan. As soon as he completes his oath, he starts walking his own path.
SICK :o

As for an actual reply, wow man I can tell this thread is gonna be pretty mind blowing, are there any examples here you feel Toriyama had planned or are they just happy coincidences? :D

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Re: Brilliant (but subtle) writing in Dragonball

Post by CaBrPi » Thu Mar 07, 2013 5:29 pm

Fizzer wrote:Another is that Cell made a television broadcast in order to spread fear around the world, and then waited to fight Goku "in the ring". These are both things that Piccolo did, and Cell has some of Piccolo's genetic code and memories.
Not to mention that Cell also came into conflict with the military, and there are a lot of references to the Piccolo-Daimao arc, with the King of the Earth showing up.

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Re: Brilliant (but subtle) writing in Dragonball

Post by Thanos » Thu Mar 07, 2013 5:56 pm

Attitudefan wrote:
MCDaveG wrote:Only thing I didn't liked after is how Raditz became such weakling pretty quick....
Which seems to undermine the first couple of chapters/episodes which is a shame. Raditz even says he is a top class warrior and wears the same armour as Nappa.
Oh, but that's easy. He just overcompensates.
Thanos before Thanos was cool.

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Re: Brilliant (but subtle) writing in Dragonball

Post by Pretorious » Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:14 pm

Speaking of the first episode of Z, it complements the first episode of the original DB very nicely because in the original, we see Goku messing around in the wilderness, being very casual about it and having fun. And in Z, we see Gohan in the wilderness but being totally out of place, scared, and crying for his parents. It's such an excellent way of contrasting Goku and Gohan right from the start.

Also, in the original Dragon Ball, Oolong asks Goku if he is an alien after he transforms back from being an ape for the first time. And in the Red Ribbon saga, when Goku fights the Terminator-style robot, we see a shot from the robot's point of view that has English writing and identifies Goku as an alien. Not saying that these were intentional, but I love how they can be seen as foreshadowing, whether or not they are happy accidents. :D

One more thing to the OP: thanks for starting a thread that is geared toward some of the positive aspects of Dragon Ball! I've noticed a fair amount of negative ones since I started posting here, which is fine, and a legitimate point of discussion, but this is a good change. It's very enjoyable to see people celebrating the cool aspects of DB.

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Re: Brilliant (but subtle) writing in Dragonball

Post by Attitudefan » Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:25 pm

Pretorious wrote:Speaking of the first episode of Z, it complements the first episode of the original DB very nicely because in the original, we see Goku messing around in the wilderness, being very casual about it and having fun. And in Z, we see Gohan in the wilderness but being totally out of place, scared, and crying for his parents. It's such an excellent way of contrasting Goku and Gohan right from the start.

Also, in the original Dragon Ball, Oolong asks Goku if he is an alien after he transforms back from being an ape for the first time. And in the Red Ribbon saga, when Goku fights the Terminator-style robot, we see a shot from the robot's point of view that has English writing and identifies Goku as an alien. Not saying that these were intentional, but I love how they can be seen as foreshadowing, whether or not they are happy accidents. :D

One more thing to the OP: thanks for starting a thread that is geared toward some of the positive aspects of Dragon Ball! I've noticed a fair amount of negative ones since I started posting here, which is fine, and a legitimate point of discussion, but this is a good change. It's very enjoyable to see people celebrating the cool aspects of DB.
Awesome finds there! And that is a great way to start Z! The first episodes of Dragonball are totally underrated in its brilliant writing!

Another good one is that Trunks grows up in a world where it is destroyed by the androids. His friends are all dead and the human race is near extinction. Vegeta is actually very similar and grew up in a similar fashion. Vegeta's race is destroyed and has to live under a tyrant. His family is gone and so are most of his friends. He fights his way to freedom as much as Trunks does!

Thanks Pretorious! I have been rewatching Dragonball and forgot how awesome it is! it has been a long time and now that I'm a little older, there is more aspects of the show to appreciate. Watching it in Japanese this time around helps a lot too!
My favourite art style (and animation) outside Toriyama who worked on Dragon Ball: Katsuyoshi Nakatsuru, Masaki Satō, Minoru Maeda, Takeo Ide, Hisashi Eguchi, Katsumi Aoshima, Tomekichi Takeuchi, Masahiro Shimanuki, Kazuya Hisada

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Re: Brilliant (but subtle) writing in Dragonball

Post by Marco Polo » Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:56 pm

Freeza "owns" the Saiyans, who are all named after vegetables. You can keep vegetables in a freezer.

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Re: Brilliant (but subtle) writing in Dragonball

Post by MCDaveG » Thu Mar 07, 2013 7:06 pm

Well, the whole Android saga is some spin off of the Red Ribbon arc itself. Not only what you mentioned, but all the enemies are actually Red Ribbon manufactured. Yeah, the king shows up and remembers the Goku in the TV, even when he's super saiyan, from the time he fought Piccolo. Also the Piccolo/Kami thing is going into conclusion. Android 16 is malfuctioning robot as Android 8 was, in that he cherish life. Only with the difference, that 16 actually is programed to kill Goku.
Also in filler, there is Tao Pai Pai!!!!
I liked how this arc was built up as continuation of the Red Ribbon arc.
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Re: Brilliant (but subtle) writing in Dragonball

Post by matt0044 » Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:54 pm

Marco Polo wrote:Freeza "owns" the Saiyans, who are all named after vegetables. You can keep vegetables in a freezer.
Well, a fridge but either way, they're kept cold.

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Re: Brilliant (but subtle) writing in Dragonball

Post by Pretorious » Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:15 pm

matt0044 wrote:
Marco Polo wrote:Freeza "owns" the Saiyans, who are all named after vegetables. You can keep vegetables in a freezer.
Well, a fridge but either way, they're kept cold.
Freezing veggies is quite common. I thought Marco Polo's observation was pretty brilliant.

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Re: Brilliant (but subtle) writing in Dragonball

Post by bleed0range » Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:47 am

Pretorious wrote:
matt0044 wrote:
Marco Polo wrote:Freeza "owns" the Saiyans, who are all named after vegetables. You can keep vegetables in a freezer.
Well, a fridge but either way, they're kept cold.
Freezing veggies is quite common. I thought Marco Polo's observation was pretty brilliant.
How about the fact that Mr. Satan and his family are named after the devil/satan and the devil is known for being a liar and the greatest liar at that (Father of all lies). Which of course, Mr. Satan becomes essentially the biggest liar ever tricking the entire world essentially.

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Re: Brilliant (but subtle) writing in Dragonball

Post by NitroEX » Fri Mar 08, 2013 4:17 am

I always liked that Gohan's arm was immobilised during the final battle with Cell and how that kind of mirrored Future Gohan not having an arm. It was almost like it was teasing the audience into believing that the predicted future was inevitable and that Gohan was still going to have the same fate but just at the hands of a different android.

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Re: Brilliant (but subtle) writing in Dragonball

Post by Rocketman » Fri Mar 08, 2013 4:34 am

NitroEX wrote:I always liked that Gohan's arm was immobilised during the final battle with Cell and how that kind of mirrored Future Gohan not having an arm. It was almost like it was teasing the audience into believing that the predicted future was inevitable and that Gohan was still going to have the same fate but just at the hands of a different android.
Which would've been COOL AS SHIT

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Re: Brilliant (but subtle) writing in Dragonball

Post by MCDaveG » Fri Mar 08, 2013 6:35 am

Rocketman wrote:
NitroEX wrote:I always liked that Gohan's arm was immobilised during the final battle with Cell and how that kind of mirrored Future Gohan not having an arm. It was almost like it was teasing the audience into believing that the predicted future was inevitable and that Gohan was still going to have the same fate but just at the hands of a different android.
Which would've been COOL AS SHIT
Yes, that's a missed opportunity. As the beams clashed, we will see this white light going over the screen and then, The End! With Future Trunks being the only survivor, standing in desolate world saying: ''In the end, you can't change the future completely''...... Muhahaha :twisted:
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