Goku's dub personality

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Sin
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Re: Goku's dub personality

Post by Sin » Tue Apr 23, 2013 4:41 pm

I agree about the cat part, he reminds me of my cat, he'd disappear for days on end and I'd be worried but he would never think I'd be worried about him. I think it's the same with Goku, he has little empathy and can't seem to understand how others feel or how his actions might affect others, a clear example of this is him letting Vegeta live, sure he wanted to fight him again but how many more people might Vegeta have killed? Goku just seems to take risks and I agree about him being selfish. In the dub I definitely feel like he is a silver age Superman, especially when we consider that Superman himself isn't that smart (at least not compared to Batman) and has no cunning, he often jumps into a fight head on with any foe often with no plan or prior knowledge of the villain. I don't think Goku is as cheesy as your stereotypical silver-age superhero but he definitely has his moments, and most certainly on Namek.

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Re: Goku's dub personality

Post by Mewzard » Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:30 pm

Ketchup_Revenge wrote:No English voice actor has ever captured Goku correctly. The problem with the search for an actor to voice the character is not only to find one who can give a believable voice to the character, but also do the character justice. Sean Schemmel in my opinion, does neither. That's why I'm dreading a FUNI dub of Battle of Gods.
I could not disagree more. The dub of Kai showed me the man can capture Goku's essence and does the role fantastically. I would be disappointed if anyone else did Goku for the dub now.

I love Superheroes, but that said, the original Z performance was wrong a number of times, and it didn't take me long to figure it out. But...I still wanted my voice actors, I just wanted them in a good dub. That's why I love Kai. I couldn't care less about the Japanese Kai voice overs, since I own the Dragon Boxes. For me as a fan, at this point, Kai exists for the dub, and the Dragon Boxes for the sub. I feel no real strong desire to watch the alternate versions of either thanks to both being the best of their representative side.

When I watch Kai, I don't hear someone doing a dub, I hear Goku. That's how strongly Schemmel's Kai performance won me over. He's still a hero to me, but he's his own kind of hero, not the speech heavy kind that scene in the Z dub with Freeza implied. He's sometimes selfish, childish, irresponsible (especially when it comes to casually ditching his family to fend for itself because he wants to train)...but in the end, when evil comes, he'll fight it. Sure, the motive's not entirely unselfish...but he does end up wanting to protect the planet and the people on it, even if his main goal is to get that fight that pushes him to its limits.

I find his voice entirely believable for the character, and I feel it now does the role justice. It took a little while, but the man grew as an actor, and as a person who appreciates and understands the role he's been given (Hell, it was his idea to pronounce Kaio-ken right and give us "Son Goku" for Kai).

What more can I say? I believe in Sean Schemmel (and I believe in Koichi Sakamoto, but that reference is for a select few).

That said, I still love Masako Nozawa as Goku in the Japanese version, and MasakoX in TFS as well (can't resist a good parody).
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Re: Goku's dub personality

Post by ABED » Tue Apr 23, 2013 7:15 pm

Sin wrote:I agree about the cat part, he reminds me of my cat, he'd disappear for days on end and I'd be worried but he would never think I'd be worried about him. I think it's the same with Goku, he has little empathy and can't seem to understand how others feel or how his actions might affect others, a clear example of this is him letting Vegeta live, sure he wanted to fight him again but how many more people might Vegeta have killed? Goku just seems to take risks and I agree about him being selfish. In the dub I definitely feel like he is a silver age Superman, especially when we consider that Superman himself isn't that smart (at least not compared to Batman) and has no cunning, he often jumps into a fight head on with any foe often with no plan or prior knowledge of the villain. I don't think Goku is as cheesy as your stereotypical silver-age superhero but he definitely has his moments, and most certainly on Namek.
I find letting Freeza live far more egregious. At least he didn't let him go out of mercy. Did he really think Freeza would've live and let live? At least with Vegeta he was planning on winning the second go around and you can always count on Goku to win a rematch.

Goku always has plans or can think well on the fly. He's a genius when it comes to fighting and even if he doesn't have much knowledge of the person he's fighting, he rarely is in a position to not fight them.

I don't see the lack of empathy on Goku's part.
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Re: Goku's dub personality

Post by WesMan23 » Tue Apr 23, 2013 7:39 pm

ABED wrote:I find letting Freeza live far more egregious. At least he didn't let him go out of mercy. Did he really think Freeza would've live and let live? At least with Vegeta he was planning on winning the second go around and you can always count on Goku to win a rematch.

Goku always has plans or can think well on the fly. He's a genius when it comes to fighting and even if he doesn't have much knowledge of the person he's fighting, he rarely is in a position to not fight them.

I don't see the lack of empathy on Goku's part.
Yes, letting Freeza live wasn't the best idea. However, he did completely break him down (literally and figuratively) and let him know how completely outclassed he was. And I may have missed something, but I don't know if he banked on Freeza surviving that final attack that he fired at him, when Freeza struck behind his back. What he seemed intent on doing to Freeza, was giving him a fate worse than death. Basically, his entire army was gone. He was sliced in half, completely humiliated by one of the last surviving members of a dead race, that he wanted to make sure was completely under his control. Everything backfired for Freeza in the worst possible way, and Goku probably figured that was enough. He was careless in giving Freeza enough energy to escape. I don't think he would have survived the explosion if Goku hadn't done that. He never seemed big on wanting Freeza to stick around, so I don't think he can be faulted too much other than the energy thing. For all intents and purposes, I think Goku wanted Freeza to die on Namek, but if he didn't, he was broken down enough that he wouldn't want to go on with life as it was. So, more than anything, it was a misjudgment, and some dumb luck for Freeza that he survived.
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Re: Goku's dub personality

Post by IIMaxII » Sat Apr 27, 2013 5:53 pm

No it doesn't make you a terrible fan, it's your own opinion and no one can take that a way from you. Of course you would prefer funi Goku as a hero when you're young, a child wouldn't see a "hick" as a hero.

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Re: Goku's dub personality

Post by penguintruth » Sat Apr 27, 2013 9:48 pm

Nikkolas wrote:Regardless though, the dub kept Goku's "I want to fight Vegeta even though it will revive an unstoppable killing machine" intact. Therefore I submit he is no more or no less heroic in the dub than in the original.
Nope. Funimation didn't fix that in the dub until Kai. They could have fixed it, but they kept it the same as in the Ocean years.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pi2qLlG ... BA&index=9

"Show him what it means to be merciful."

It's shocking just how much dialogue they didn't change when they redubbed the first two "seasons" of the show. They fixed the "brilliant scientist" thing, at least.

Oooh, and later on to Cell: "Arrgagagh... I'll make you pay, Cell! Your days of terrorizing the Earth will be finished for good!"

And later to Majin Vegeta: "The Vegeta I know would have NEVER done this!"

All. Dub. Lines. Only.
Kentai wrote:Son Gokuu is a fascinating character anyway, because he is - at face value, anyway - an idiot savant. The victim of violent head trauma as an infant [...] he's a simple bumpkin with a fair share of brain damage who's natural talents to work out what's wrong compensate for his broad lack of common sense. But he's also a fighter, through and through [...] he fight until he has, in no uncertain terms, beaten his enemy on terms they can both acknowledge. He doesn't want to kill anyone, or even prove that he can win... he just wants to know he can. He's an ineffably charming bastard who's manly leanings were really incendental, and yes, the fact that he was voiced by a squeaky woman made the combination perhaps all the more charming.


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Re: Goku's dub personality

Post by Gaffer Tape » Sun Apr 28, 2013 8:03 am

IIMaxII wrote:No it doesn't make you a terrible fan, it's your own opinion and no one can take that a way from you. Of course you would prefer funi Goku as a hero when you're young, a child wouldn't see a "hick" as a hero.
While I agree with the first part, I really don't with the second. Generations of Japanese children saw a "hick" as a hero, so I'm not at all sure where you're coming from on that. Honestly, it reminds me of David Yost's (Billy the Blue Mighty Morphin Power Ranger) claims that he was told by the production staff that a gay man didn't deserve to be a superhero. If anything, Goku presents the idea that anybody can be a hero, an idea that's actually fairly common in children's television.
penguintruth wrote:And later to Majin Vegeta: "The Vegeta I know would have NEVER done this!"
Wait, really... he said that?

Well, I dunno. Considering how the cast often lets him get away with anything, I don't know how out of character such an oblivious line really is. :lol:
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Re: Goku's dub personality

Post by TheBlackPaladin » Sun Apr 28, 2013 8:32 am

The odd thing about that scene is that it somewhat contradicts some of Goku's later (and earlier) actions. He rushed to save his friends, but puts them in danger again by letting Vegeta live. For the X20 Kaioken scene against Freeza, he's stirred back to life by thoughts of Freeza killing his friends and family and even flat-out says to Freeza, in the subtitled version, that he's not giving up--for their sake...even though, later on, he lets Freeza power-up to 100% of his power because he wants to see how strong he can get.

Really, Goku has had both selfish and selfless moments. The result is a number of contradictions that I don't know if I should be praising for how interesting they are, or sighing over for how poorly-written they are. These contradictions make him more multi-dimensional, yes, but are they logical? I don't know if these contradictions are intended or just the result of a writer that wanted to keep the plot going without regard to logic.

I can only think of two possible explanations:

1) Goku's not a logical guy. He's pretty stupid. So he's not one for planning things out, and is just sort of basic and instinct-driven.
2) It could also be that his racial heritage and his upbringing are often in conflict. As a saiyan, he desperately wants to fight, but as someone who was raised like human, living on Earth, he has some degree of virtue.
A "rather haggard" translation of a line from Future Gohan in DBZ, provided to FUNimation by Toei:
"To think of fighting that is this fun...so, it was pleasant fight, as many as, therefore is a feeling which is good the fight where."

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Re: Goku's dub personality

Post by ABED » Sun Apr 28, 2013 9:07 am

I don't think Goku sees it as putting his friends directly in danger, he's sure he'll win the next fight against Freeza.

Many people hold contradictions in real life. Some won't cheat on their diet and push themselves to be the best at their profession but they cheat on their spouse. Also, most don't think and act on principle.

Again with the selfish vs selfless thing. How self interested could Goku really be to put his friends in danger? I assume they are a value to him. Regardless, it's by and large useless to discuss morality in a fictional world where there's magic and beings that can destroy entire planets with a flick of their finger.
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Re: Goku's dub personality

Post by Kid Buu » Mon Apr 29, 2013 4:45 am

Gaffer Tape wrote:
penguintruth wrote:And later to Majin Vegeta: "The Vegeta I know would have NEVER done this!"
Wait, really... he said that?

Well, I dunno. Considering how the cast often lets him get away with anything, I don't know how out of character such an oblivious line really is. :lol:
Yup, he said that.

Also, isn't letting Vegeta get away with everything a flaw on Goku's behalf? Vegeta is generally much stronger than the rest of the cast so it's not like they can't say anything to him (although, we did get that moment when Future Trunks attacked him).

About David Yost, the producers denied such a comment, and we don't know which side of the story is telling the truth.
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Re: Goku's dub personality

Post by CaBrPi » Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:19 pm

I wouldn't even mind some of these lines... if they didn't contradict what we actually see.

Like Vegeta's whole "He made me like this" thing... Then, when he comes back to life, he goes right back to being like that.

And then the "Ally to good" thing. Goku talks about how he's the ultimate good guy and whatnot... and then refuses to stop Dr. Gero, and the result is thousands (possibly millions) of casualties. Dr. Gero was not innocent, like Goku was trying to say, and he most definitely had done evil things already. He had been part of the Red Ribbon Army, after all.

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Re: Goku's dub personality

Post by ABED » Mon Apr 29, 2013 4:44 pm

We're dealing with a world where people can magically be brought back to life. Conventional morality doesn't apply.

Also, I hope those that condemn Goku aren't the same ones who seem to give Vegeta a free pass.
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Re: Goku's dub personality

Post by matt0044 » Sun May 05, 2013 10:56 am

Recalling Goku's origins, I wonder if the contributed to the dub making him more like Superman.

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Re: Goku's dub personality

Post by RandomGuy96 » Sun May 05, 2013 4:08 pm

especially when we consider that Superman himself isn't that smart (at least not compared to Batman) and has no cunning, he often jumps into a fight head on with any foe often with no plan or prior knowledge of the villain.
Being "Super" doesn't just apply to his ability to punch robots. Superman is actually a genius.
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dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

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Re: Goku's dub personality

Post by OutlawTorn » Sun May 05, 2013 7:18 pm

Sin wrote:Maybe it's because I'm a bad fan, and I'm sure a lot of people would say it was disrespectful to the source material, but I think I'd always prefer a Funi Goku (not the voice actor, just the personality) over the source Goku. Am I alone in this? Does it make me a terrible fan?
No, I wouldn't say it makes you a bad fan at all. In fact, it almost sounds like a "sins of the father" type thing where, in this case, the "father" would be FUNimation. I see absolutely no reason why fans of the FUNimation version should be looked down upon because of their preference when they have absolutely no control over the finished product.

Furthermore, while we may buy DVDs and Blu-rays, the manga and the video games and any other form of Dragon Ball media, none of us "own" Dragon Ball or are better or inferior to one another based upon our preferences. As far as I'm concerned, each and every one of us are free to embrace and enjoy the original Japanese version, the FUNimation dub or any other dub out there without having to justify our preferences or put up with elitist "you don't know the real Dragon Ball." That's the beauty of having the Japanese version subtitled on the DVDs, you can enjoy the show in whatever way you prefer but you can still be respectful of and educate yourself on the original version. It's a win/win situation.

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