Characters who deserved more...

[Linnom]

GT don't have logic.

[TheGmGoken]

GT don't have logic.

*Sigh* I hate when people say this. Yes it does. Worst logic than DBZ but still logic regardless

[ABED]

Giving C-Characters like Yajirobe more to do could've been nice.

[Snail]

Hands down, Tenshinhan & Yamucha both deserved much more of a spotlight.

[Godo]

Hands down, Tenshinhan & Yamucha both deserved much more of a spotlight.

They could have worked together as a team. Ditch Chao-zu, and make the two of them fusion-candidates as well as letting them to fight as a pair á la Budokai 2.
It would be cool to see a combination of the Wolf Fang Fist and the Volleyball technique, as well as a Kamehameha and Kikoho-combo.
Or maybe Yamcha's Spirit ball but with the power of the Kikoho. Pretty much having the Kikoho as the base to their techniques would make them cool and popular enough to be included in the series.

[Kamiccolo9]

Hands down, Tenshinhan & Yamucha both deserved much more of a spotlight.

They could have worked together as a team. Ditch Chao-zu, and make the two of them fusion-candidates as well as letting them to fight as a pair á la Budokai 2.
It would be cool to see a combination of the Wolf Fang Fist and the Volleyball technique, as well as a Kamehameha and Kikoho-combo.
Or maybe Yamcha's Spirit ball but with the power of the Kikoho. Pretty much having the Kikoho as the base to their techniques would make them cool and popular enough to be included in the series.

This could work. Maybe throw in Kaio-Ken as well.
And Godo, I'd have to say that that is the scariest avatar I have ever seen. I'll probably have nightmares about it.

[RandomGuy96]

"Tencha"/"Yamhan" would still be weaker than Freeza, and therefore useless.

Speaking of Budokai 2, I always thought that Buu's absorption of Tien and Yamcha was even funnier than when he absorbed Cell...

Super Buu: (realizes who he just absorbed)...NOOOOOOOOO!

Hey, don't you insult KaKa Carrot Cake, he's real Super Sand Legend.

[Makaioshin]

"Tencha"/"Yamhan" would still be weaker than Freeza, and therefore useless.

Hey, don't you insult KaKa Carrot Cake, he's real Super Sand Legend.

The fusion would just be as strong as the writing needed it to be.

[Kamiccolo9]

"Tencha"/"Yamhan" would still be weaker than Freeza, and therefore useless.

Hey, don't you insult KaKa Carrot Cake, he's real Super Sand Legend.

Something could come up to make them remain relevant. This is the series that had Goku become stronger by drinking magic water after all.

[TheGmGoken]

Not a character but the Kaioken. I know damn well not every person GOku fought after Freeza was 20 - 49x stronger than him. I'm sure Goku could have master the Kaioken x20.

[RandomGuy96]

The maximum relevance I'd ever give the humans is against the androids (then again, I don't think the androids should be that strong). They definitely shouldn't be able to do crap against big guys like the King of the Demon Realm, the perfect being, and the ancient god-eating monster. That would just be dumb. I'd argue that they should never even be relevant to guys in the Freeza tier, even with kaio-ken (though, again, I think the androids are OP).

All we can really tell about "Yamhan"/"Tencha" is that he'd be faaaaaaaar below base Gotenks. It'd be bullcrap if he were ever relevant, especially in the Buu Saga (which I presume is when he'd be formed?). Even with kaio-ken, he shouldn't touch anyone in the Cell-tier, let alone the Buu-tier.

[Godo]

"Tencha"/"Yamhan" would still be weaker than Freeza, and therefore useless.

Hey, don't you insult KaKa Carrot Cake, he's real Super Sand Legend.

Something could come up to make them remain relevant. This is the series that had Goku become stronger by drinking magic water after all.

Or with Piccolo reaching 100% Freeza tier sparring with Goku and Gohan. On Earth. For only 3 years.

But alas, I never thought about Tenshinhan or Yamcha or Tencha/Yamhan defeating the likes of Cell or Buu, but rather taking on the lower henchmen of Babidi. If Vegeta could defeat Pui Pui in base, they should be able to do it with fusion.
Also, when Cell became perfect, he could summon the lower cyborgs and have them fight the lower fighters (just to have them being defeated by the Cell Jrs. later but it would be cool to have some action as well).

Also, Ka Ka Karmen Electra. I rest my case.

[RandomGuy96]

"Tencha"/"Yamhan" would still be weaker than Freeza, and therefore useless.

Hey, don't you insult KaKa Carrot Cake, he's real Super Sand Legend.

Something could come up to make them remain relevant. This is the series that had Goku become stronger by drinking magic water after all.

Or with Piccolo reaching 100% Freeza tier sparring with Goku and Gohan. On Earth. For only 3 years.

But alas, I never thought about Tenshinhan or Yamcha or Tencha/Yamhan defeating the likes of Cell or Buu, but rather taking on the lower henchmen of Babidi. If Vegeta could defeat Pui Pui in base, they should be able to do it with fusion.
Also, when Cell became perfect, he could summon the lower cyborgs and have them fight the lower fighters (just to have them being defeated by the Cell Jrs. later but it would be cool to have some action as well).

Also, Ka Ka Karmen Electra. I rest my case.

Would seem pointless. I always hate henchmen who exist for no reason other than to get killed by minor characters. It just makes you think that the heroes are stupid for not letting the actually relevant fighters mow down the henchmen with no trouble instead of risking the lives of the weaker fighters unnecessarily.

[Saiga]

I'm in agreement that the humans should have been treated better but fucking the story in the ass just to give them some glory isn't the way to go about it.

[Godo]

Would seem pointless. I always hate henchmen who exist for no reason other than to get killed by minor characters. It just makes you think that the heroes are stupid for not letting the actually relevant fighters mow down the henchmen with no trouble instead of risking the lives of the weaker fighters unnecessarily.

It worked well in the Saiya-jin *(Saibaimen) and Freeza arc (the lower goons, Zarbon, Dodoria, the Ginyu force), although I understand that it would seem repetitive to have Goku being late to the fight all the time.
Also, we have something similar with the Cell Jrs. although only Vegeta and Trunks were able to hold their own against them.

One way to have the lower tier fighters to fight their own battles is to split them up. Although Piccolo wasn't lower tier at that point, having him fight Android 17 whilst Vegeta and Trunks were in the ROSAT and Goku and Gohan staying in the tower, it was another way to solve the problem.
This has worked in other manga who are not much more complicated than DBZ, so I don't see how it wouldn't work in DBZ if Toriyama tried.

I'm in agreement that the humans should have been treated better but fucking the story in the ass just to give them some glory isn't the way to go about it.

It doesn't have to affect the story badly at all if executed right. It might even not have to alter it much either.

IMO having anal intercourse with the story (as you are saying) has happened several times already in the series. One factor is bajillions of SSJ transformations.
Another factor is Goku-Vegeta-Gohan-Piccolo being almost exclusively the only fighters.
Not much originality there.

What I would have wanted is more originality, not much exclusively to the humans, but the story is too linear.

[Saiga]

No, the multiple Super Saiyan transformations were good for the story. They fleshed out the Super Saiyan concept and made it more interesting. Restricting the fighters to the strongest prevented unjustifiably bullshit power gains for the most part (except for Piccolo's Android arc gains).

Making the humans relevant again without bullshit wouldn't be easy.

[Godo]

No, the multiple Super Saiyan transformations were good for the story. They fleshed out the Super Saiyan concept and made it more interesting. Restricting the fighters to the strongest prevented unjustifiably bullshit power gains for the most part (except for Piccolo's Android arc gains).

Making the humans relevant again without bullshit wouldn't be easy.

IMO they watered the SSJ transformation instead of fleshing it out. And IMO it is pretty bullshit that Goku reached the "legendary" SSJ transformation, and then Trunks and Vegeta go "oh yeah, we can it too", and then we have Gohan, Goten and Trunks knowing it too. And then it isn't that special anymore. And of course SSJ 2 and SSJ3 felt like bullshit too, like there isn't any limit to the amount of SSJ forms.
What happened with training hard to be able to reach those powerlevels? Oh yeah, it was to put a cap and making it hard for anyone else but Saiya-jins being able to do anything.
Except for Piccolo's bullshit gains.

And I already agree with that it won't be easy to make humans relevant.
It would be much easier if it was incorporated earlier. I am not advocating that they should be changed now, rather that it should have been changed before it was too late.

IMO the Super God Water and the Kaio-ken and the Zenkai were just as bullshit as it could have gotten, so there is no high treshold to breaking the bullshit barrier.
Compared to them, giving the humans a new ability to become stronger sans training wouldn't be that crazy.

Apart from the SSJ inflation, I am overall pretty glad over how the series turned out.
But I can't stand people ignoring already existing bullshit and disregard new bullshit which is just as hard to swallow.

[ABED]

it is pretty bullshit that Goku reached the "legendary" SSJ transformation

It was only a legend because one guy had ever achieved it. There was never any proof that it was only one person every so often could do it. I don't think it watered it down to have Vegeta and Trunks reach it. What watered it down was the endless levels, and then the Super Saiyan bargain sale with Goten and Trunks.

IMO the Super God Water and the Kaio-ken and the Zenkai were just as bullshit as it could have gotten

Goku had to go through torture at a chance to have his power drawn out with the Super Sacred Water, though I prefer how it went down in the anime. Kaio-ken had a big draw back so I dont' see where the BS is. I do agree that the zenkai in the Freeza arc went overboard.

Except for Piccolo's bullshit gains

How was this BS?

[Godo]

it is pretty bullshit that Goku reached the "legendary" SSJ transformation

It was only a legend because one guy had ever achieved it. There was never any proof that it was only one person every so often could do it. I don't think it watered it down to have Vegeta and Trunks reach it. What watered it down was the endless levels, and then the Super Saiyan bargain sale with Goten and Trunks.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I meant, although when Vegeta reached it, that was almost too much IMO.

Goku had to go through torture at a chance to have his power drawn out with the Super Sacred Water, though I prefer how it went down in the anime. Kaio-ken had a big draw back so I dont' see where the BS is. I do agree that the zenkai in the Freeza arc went overboard.

I have not a problem with the Super God Water in itself. What I believe that if there exists a means like that to become stronger, it could be applied to the humans too (it isn't too far-fetched to believe that the humans did try that before the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai, though). If the Super God Water can't be called a bullshit way of becoming stronger, then giving similar means to the humans wouldn't be it either.

How was this BS?

The huge amount he grew in such a short amount of time doing Earth training. If Piccolo could grow that much by sparring with Goku, then the humans could benefit from this too.
If Piccolo's mysterious gains can be accepted, then humans gaining power in a similar vein should be accepted too.

My point is simply that if the SSJ transformations are accepted, the zenkais are accepted, the Super God Water is accepted, Piccolo's growth between the Freeza arc to the Android Arc is accepted, then why is it so implausible with the humans to become stronger by some new miraculous means?
If those means aren't bullshit, then having the humans becoming stronger isn't either, no matter how they did it.

[ABED]

Piccolo was established as a far stronger and better fighter than any Earthling, and Namekians are either fighters or healers. It's not a stretch to think that they can make great gains like the Saiyans, but to a smaller degree.

when Vegeta reached it, that was almost too much IMO.

I don't see how.