Viz's Print Edition of the "Full Colour Comics" Discussion

[TheGreatness25]

Aw damn, really? lol Well, I guess they did just use the same translation/adaptation as before. Typos happen, but damn, get an editor.

A better translation would be better but were far beyond that now. Especially since the recently released Super chapters are using the H Word. That, Buu The Djinn, and Vegerot are still gonna be present whenever full color Buu gets over here.

The names don't have anything to do with a more proper translation. Yeah, they're weird, but they're just political nonsense. We all know the characters' names. They could do a much more accurate translation and leave in all that crap and I'd personally be okay with it. As I said, I know their names.

[eledoremassis02]

That the problem. Vegerot is a decent translation givin the fact they are using FUNi's westernize adaptation of the names. Hurclue should be fixed tho because that is 100% wrong. Overall I don't think the translation is that bad.

[TheGreatness25]

I mean if it were just the names, not a problem, but it's like you can't even use Viz's translation when in a debate because someone will pull up one of Herms's translations that contradict whatever Viz said. So basically, I have to go on the internet to look up an accurately-translated version of the magna despite holding an English version of it in my damn hand. That's pretty crappy. So I hold my position - should've redone the translation. They must know that people have poked holes in their prior one.

[VegettoEX]

The people poking holes in the strength comparisons of Viz's English translation are such a minuscule audience (who are generally looking for any opportunity to not actually pay for a product anyway) that there's little point in paying them any mind. That's a loss you're more than willing to take on as a company.

In general, their translation's just fine if you want to read and understand the story.

With the number of re-releases we've gone through so far, we're WELL past the point of there being an opportune time to re-translate the entire manga from all perspectives (business, marketing, etc.). I just don't see it happening, and wouldn't hold my breath for it.

[TheGreatness25]

Yeah, but the thing is that Viz went ahead and had to retype the whole thing for the new release so instead of hiring someone to just retype the whole thing, why not pay the same money to someone to re-translate it and type it in the appropriate places.

Still, can't use Viz during debates because that's comparable to introducing the FUNimation dub into a debate. And while the Viz translation is okay enough to understand the story, so is FUNimation's dub and we all know what happens when we go down that road.

[VegettoEX]

so instead of hiring someone to just retype the whole thing, why not pay the same money to someone to re-translate it and type it in the appropriate places.

Those are two completely different jobs and skill-sets with wildly different budgets and time allotments. That's like asking why Julian and Jake can't just run the website here by themselves and do everything, or vice versa why Heath and I can't just translate everything here.

Still, can't use Viz during debates because that's comparable to introducing the FUNimation dub into a debate. And while the Viz translation is okay enough to understand the story, so is FUNimation's dub and we all know what happens when we go down that road.

Vastly different situations. We're talking minor differences generally about strength debates, not major characterization changes.

[eledoremassis02]

There are some things that need to factually changed such as Goku thinking that vegeta killed grandpa gohan. However, a lot of things people dislike about VIZs translation is that it's not 100% word for word direct tranlsation. And thats the thing, translation is not about getting it to sound like it's original counter part. There is wiggle room for things to be adjusted to suit the country/culture its being translated for. So while say piccolo speaks like he's in a Shakespeare play you still get his character and intention.


This is an example of a bad translation. It misses the original intent of panel.

The Japanese text reads: おーウワサをすれば ミスター サタンじゃねか！
This can be translated a few ways.
"Well speak of the devil! It's Mr. Satan!"
"Oh! Speak of the devil, it's Mr. Satan!"
"Oh! Speak of the devil, if it inst Mr. Satan!"
"Ohh! Speak of the devil, if it ain't Mr. Satan!"

Each translation getting closer to a "direct translation" but none of them are wrong. And you can even make any varions of these and it would stil be considered a decent translation. Goku has a specific way of speaking that I rarely ever see in fan translations but it's really a minute character trait unless (as it's usally being used in a broader context) to set up a gag

[VegettoEX]

But that example is totally different from a "bad translation," in that WE know and THEY know it's all about censoring a name rather than missing the point of the delivery and original line's intent.

[eledoremassis02]

But that example is totally different from a "bad translation," in that WE know and THEY know it's all about censoring a name rather than missing the point of the delivery and original line's intent.

To be honest I am not sure it's really about censorship in vizs case. It was a reaction to FUNimation changes the name out of censorship but the Viz translation did call him Mr. Satan once (perhaps to throw a bone to the fanbase). They wouldn't have even bothered to do that if they felt it would have offended someone. They did it because they thought they would have confused kids with the TV version going by a different name.

Mr. Satan's name has been Hercule in most of the English releases of Dragon Ball throughout time. To remain consistent with these releases (both manga and anime), just as we remain consistent with the naming of Zolo in One Piece, we opted to keep the name the same to avoid confusion. It was not our intent to censor his name, but rather to keep it consistent.

They simply don't want to go back and change every time they changed his name simply because they can't or dont want to invest the extra time and money to so (look how many things they missed uncesoring in the 3in1's). So at this point I'd say it's a bad translation because they could have fixed this issue by now as Mr. Satan has become the standard name of the character in all releases outside of the TV edits.

[VegettoEX]

But that's a total bullshit, cop-out statement in a translation filled with Son Goku, Tenshinhan, Kuririn, Lord of Worlds, (and later things like Pocus and Vegerot) etc. We know from impartial, now-unaffiliated sources what was going on with the management at Viz at the time, and it was 100% an attempt to ride the Pokemon wave with safe, inoffensive, conservative content in all of their releases, particularly in light of previous outcry over Dragon Ball.

[eledoremassis02]

The problem is tho is that they don't shy away from the fact popo got people upset and for that reason they will never not uncensor him and the fact they completely changed Gokus thought on Him killing grandpa gohan states they did have a interest on reflecting the what was going on with the dub. I don't deny they wanted to sanitize dragon ball heck they did that one release where they pretty much cut out anything offesnive. I have to find it but there was an edition where the no balls gag in dragon ball littlerly edited out every other pannel lol But these are perhaps the real faults with Viz dragon ball. Why change Hurcule but keep "Demon King Piccolo" of Keep Son Goku and change Kakarotto to Kakarot? They lack of making any sense to the changes they do make

But to get back on point. Why don't people have any problems with Saiyan? We all know that are Saiyajins or the Saiya (people). And this is the point I want to make. Translations can be made very different but all mean the same thing depending on the translator. There is often not one way to translate something and fully capture the expression, meaning, culture, etc or there is a way and but it can be expressed a thousand different ways. Translations (especially with something as diverse and Japanese to English) is very broad and sometimes the most sounding Japanese translation might not be the best, it can be a sort of art form as well as a learning experience for the translator.

[VegettoEX]

Why don't people have any problems with Saiyan? We all know that are Saiyajins or the Saiya (people).

"Saiyan" is totally fine and in fact had been in wide use in Japan as a transliteration long before FUNimation got to it. The issue isn't with the transliteration, but with the pronunciation (which isn't as big an issue with the printed work, I guess).

"Saiyan" is fine just like "Namekian" is fine. I'd argue that the foreign adaptations that kept it as "Saiyajin" (German and Mexican, right?) are the ones that should have gone with something more localized.

[eledoremassis02]

I agree with what you are saying 100% but now I've jumbled myself up lol I am just trying to figure out what people want from viz lol. Why is Saiyan ok but Vegerot is not? Thats what I don't get.

Like I stated translation is something that might not want to take a literal stance but fan translations have become just that. People don't want locolization even though at some point that might have to happen because not everything is 100% translatable.

[VegettoEX]

I wouldn't say I've come around on "Vegerot" (I still don't particularly care for it), but it's not "wrong," either. My personal feeling is that a proper noun should be left alone as much as possible to somehow preserve the pronunciation and pun as much as possible in balance with each other. "Vegetto" preserves the pronunciation, but loses a bit of the point in an adaptation where "Kakarrot" is (rightfully enough on its own) used instead of "Kakarotto". "Vegerot" preserves the intent of the name, but loses the pronunciation. It's a lose-lose situation no matter what, so I'm empathetic there as someone who tries to document all this stuff in a similar way.

My overall problem with the Boo arc in Viz's translation is that they're inconsistent with name puns that they adapt, name puns they translate, and name puns they don't even touch. You have examples like "Yakon" being left alone, while "Pui-Pui" is changed to "Pocus". You have those two bratty kids in the tournament whose names I'm forgetting, where I think they left one alone and adapted the other. You have "Vegerot" which they adapt.

[eledoremassis02]

It's like Reacoom who lost his full pun. For the longest time I thought it was a pun on Racoon. Was Gohans name ever footnoted in the manga? Thinking about it I don't think a lot of the less direct englishy puns were noted in the manga?

[Soppa Saia People]

It's like Reacoom who lost his full pun. For the longest time I thought it was a pun on Racoon. Was Gohans name ever footnoted in the manga? Thinking about it I don't think a lot of the less direct englishy puns were noted in the manga?

I think in the Cell games, when Gokuu tells Gohan to fight, the reporter goes "My god, now they're going out for rice" or something.

[TheGreatness25]

The cameraman says, "'Gohan'... That means rice!"

[Gaffer Tape]

My overall problem with the Boo arc in Viz's translation is that they're inconsistent with name puns that they adapt, name puns they translate, and name puns they don't even touch. You have examples like "Yakon" being left alone, while "Pui-Pui" is changed to "Pocus". You have those two bratty kids in the tournament whose names I'm forgetting, where I think they left one alone and adapted the other. You have "Vegerot" which they adapt.

For the sake of completeness and helping out your point, yeah, there were the two brothers in the 25th Budoukai, Idasa and Ikose, who fight Trunks and Goten, respectively. In Trunks's fight, his opponent's name is "Laem" but then in the very next chapter, when Goten fights his opponent, that character's name is left as "Ikose." It's really weird and inconsistent.

[Nejishiki]

But that example is totally different from a "bad translation," in that WE know and THEY know it's all about censoring a name rather than missing the point of the delivery and original line's intent.

You know, the strangest thing about Viz censoring Mr. Satan is the fact that they bother acknowledging that it is his ring name. That is, before dropping it forever afterwards. What was the point of that? It just feels frustrating that they would leave it in "their continuity" to showcase that they're not only aware of it, but they weren't afraid of printing it, even that one time. It may very well be the company trying to play it safe, but once they went for it, they might as well gone all of the way, even if I just mentally replace the text with Satan anyway.

[Footlong Shoe]

You know, the strangest thing about Viz censoring Mr. Satan is the fact that they bother acknowledging that it is his ring name. That is, before dropping it forever afterwards. What was the point of that? It just feels frustrating that they would leave it in "their continuity" to showcase that they're not only aware of it, but they weren't afraid of printing it, even that one time. It may very well be the company trying to play it safe, but once they went for it, they might as well gone all of the way, even if I just mentally replace the text with Satan anyway.

They probably just saw it as less work to put in that explanation instead of changing all instances of "Hercule" back into "Mr. Satan". Of course, then you have to wonder why they bothered even mentioning the name.