If You Could Change The Previous Villains.

Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.

Moderators: General Help, Kanzenshuu Staff

User avatar
DBZGTKOSDH
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 12401
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:45 pm
Location: Greece

Re: If You Could Change The Previous Villains.

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Tue Dec 31, 2013 3:02 pm

If I could make Gohan & Gotenks the heroes of Boo arc (as it was originally intended), I would remove the absorption ability from Boo, which means that Innocent Boo would be the original Boo, which also means that no other Kaioshins would exist (there would be only one Kaioshin like there is only one Dai Kaio, one North Kaio, one Kami of Earth, etc). Goku & Vegeta would stay dead forever, and the Potara wouldn't be a thing. But having Ultimate Gohan easily killing Evil Boo would be lame, so I would make Evil Boo transforming again (by getting angry), so that Ultimate Gohan & Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks would fight together against the new Boo, and eventually save the day after a hard fight.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

User avatar
Xeogran
I Live Here
Posts: 3056
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:04 am
Contact:

Re: If You Could Change The Previous Villains.

Post by Xeogran » Wed Jan 01, 2014 11:37 am

Polyphase Avatron wrote:Make Lord Slug not be weak to whistling. That's just lame.
You mean give him more brain. He wouldn't be weak to whistling if he cut off his ears like Piccolo did ON HIS EYES.


My turn.

Super #17: I would keep him the same, but ultimately I wouldn't make him get killed off. We could see that he had heart hidden inside, it's just that Goku didn't gave him a chance.
Which would lead to a battle between Yi Xing Long and Super #17 after being "converted" so to speak. The dragon would eventually win this since he's the Big Bad, but the fused android would play a role in helping Goku finishing him, getting him enough time to load the Genki Dama after Vegeta almost dies in Episode 63.

User avatar
Godo
I Live Here
Posts: 3360
Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2006 9:25 am

Re: If You Could Change The Previous Villains.

Post by Godo » Wed Jan 01, 2014 3:31 pm

Cell - Remove the SPC form. He goes into a fight with Gohan, and taunts him and Gohan overpowers Cell initially. Cell then goes into full power, and Gohan transforms. Cell is all like look at my full power, but gets beat up so bad that he starts running away a la #19. He gets ended by a two handed Kamehameha.

Broly - Keep his LSSJ form and make him a stealth character instead of a tank. As a kid, he was taught this kind of fighting by his father, but due to his limitations in intelligence he fails to see that his giant LSSJ form is a dead giveaway to his position. So he ends up being beaten on, but taking no damage.
Somewhere in the movie Vegeta in his SSJ Grade 2 form gets mistaken for Broly, and Vegeta gets a hard sucker punch by, say, Trunks.
Eventually the heroes destroy Broly by the Toei punch as the original movie.
In movie 10, which is a short, he arrives on Earth and manages to hide much more easily, but his energy is easily read by Gohan, who takes him out with a full power SSJ2 Kamehameha.
Bio-Broly, another short, is about Broly now riding Gohan's Kamehameha into space whilst having caught a stomach bug. Along the trail of ki, Broly tries to escape by shooting out his own beams from his bottom and mouth, quite unsuccessfully.

User avatar
Duo
I Live Here
Posts: 3221
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2004 11:14 pm
Location: West Michigan
Contact:

Re: If You Could Change The Previous Villains.

Post by Duo » Thu Jan 02, 2014 2:14 am

I would reduce the number of transformations wherever possible, for starters.

Freeza would go from his second stage to his final stage. For his 100% power, I think it would have been better to give him an impressive aura instead of buffing him up.

Cell would spend more time in his first stage and I would have loved for the manga to incorporate his "death aura" seen in the anime. That was an amazingly memorable effect. I would redesign his second stage a little bit and then never have him attain completion, instead making his second stage as formidable as what we got from his final. It would be really interesting to leave the mystery of "what if he had gotten the other one too?" looming over the characters forever.

The skinny, evil Majin Buu that comes out of fat Buu would either be little Buu or vice versa later on. There was no reason for those two separate designs to exist and it would have been much better to just have that Buu appear at two different points. The buff Buu would not have happened at all. Besides that, I did like all his form designs and the absorption's were awesome. I think it would have been great to see him fight wearing Piccolo's outfit (particularly if he actually wore the purple shirt) or Vegeta's outfit at the time somehow.

I can't think of anything to change about Piccolo or Vegeta, but that's when the series was still without flaws.

As for movie characters, Slug could have had a more interesting background for sure. TFS played with this idea, which was awesome.

Just as many have said, movie 6 did not require Coola. His appearance and role in movie 5 was fantastic and I hate that it got dragged down a bit. I like the idea I read above of the Big Gete star creating androids based on the protagonists.

Broli would not be so powerful and there would be some level of actual drama in the battle between him and everybody else. I'd have it play out much more like the fight with Raditz, but with more protagonists. There would be distractions, strategy, super charged attacks, and so on. They would damage him, he would damage them back. Maybe a good Gohan rage would factor into his defeat but not quite do the job. I want to see both sides of the battle weaken over time. As for his appearance in movie 10, I was OK with the way that played out sans the fact Gohan wasn't more of a match when he transformed and that we didn't get to see lightning in his aura to confirm exactly which Ssj state he was supposed to be in. Movie 11 didn't need Broli, could have been the same movie either way.

Bojack's powered up state blows. That needs a redesign and it would be great if him and his whole crew had used weapons, like Gokua did. Could even give Gohan the Nyoi-Bo for a while to mix up the style of fighting we've seen throughout the series.

All the other film villains are pretty much OK to excellent in my book. Garlic Jr. is clearly the best one in the whole lot.

Since I've typed so much, I'd like to add that I would change nothing about Beerus (even if he's new to everything). I loved everything about how he was handled and thought he was the most interesting villain since the days of Piccolo and Vegeta.

User avatar
caejones
I Live Here
Posts: 3125
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2006 8:37 am
Contact:

Re: If You Could Change The Previous Villains.

Post by caejones » Thu Jan 02, 2014 6:47 am

I vaguely like the idea of Mecha Freeza's tech being relevant to the strength of Gero's creations.

Superperfect Cell feels like a cheap move to add a dramatic final showdown, possibly to prevent the arc from ending on a depressing note ("Gohan is the strongest in the universe, but fails as a hero in that form, causing his father to die. The end.") I don't know how I'd change this, unless it's my old "Have the Buu Arc piggyback off the Cell Games" idea, which is not a villain change so much as a Shin Budokai-esque plot rewrite.
Dr Gero, in Budokai 2 wrote:Go, my Saiba Rangers!
Akira Toriyama, in Son Goku Densetsu wrote:You really can’t go by rumors (laughs).

User avatar
KentalSSJ6
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6473
Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2012 8:03 am
Location: Chicago, Illinois.

Re: If You Could Change The Previous Villains.

Post by KentalSSJ6 » Thu Jan 02, 2014 8:09 pm

I think id have made Slug be a evil half expelled from Guru. Both are majorly old when we first see them, and Slug was apparently banished from Namek for miss-using the Dragonballs.

Slug could have come to be during the great drought Namek had. For all we know some Namekians did terrible things in order to survive, causing Guru to be tainted with evil and expel it from him like Kami did with Piccolo.
Deviantart (NSFW) - http://yamato012.deviantart.com/
DBSW Group Page - http://dbsw.deviantart.com/
Still the 1k Sniper - [spoiler]http://orig10.deviantart.net/6a02/f/201 ... 8npe7r.png[/spoiler]

User avatar
IDreamtIWasABee
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 171
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2011 12:45 am

Re: If You Could Change The Previous Villains.

Post by IDreamtIWasABee » Thu Jan 02, 2014 9:04 pm

Majin Boo would be a sorcerer. And he wouldn't kill mortals, he would eradicate souls.

User avatar
Attitudefan
I Live Here
Posts: 2963
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2010 9:51 pm
Location: Canada

Re: If You Could Change The Previous Villains.

Post by Attitudefan » Sat Jan 04, 2014 12:24 am

IDreamtIWasABee wrote:Majin Boo would be a sorcerer. And he wouldn't kill mortals, he would eradicate souls.
Damn man. That's actually a really out there idea... and you know, it could work!
My favourite art style (and animation) outside Toriyama who worked on Dragon Ball: Katsuyoshi Nakatsuru, Masaki Satō, Minoru Maeda, Takeo Ide, Hisashi Eguchi, Katsumi Aoshima, Tomekichi Takeuchi, Masahiro Shimanuki, Kazuya Hisada

User avatar
KentalSSJ6
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6473
Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2012 8:03 am
Location: Chicago, Illinois.

Re: If You Could Change The Previous Villains.

Post by KentalSSJ6 » Sat Jan 04, 2014 1:45 pm

IDreamtIWasABee wrote:Majin Boo would be a sorcerer. And he wouldn't kill mortals, he would eradicate souls.
Wouldn't that mean anyone who was killed by Buu would be unable to come back and be erased from existence? Cause...Buu blew up earth and everyone on it.
Deviantart (NSFW) - http://yamato012.deviantart.com/
DBSW Group Page - http://dbsw.deviantart.com/
Still the 1k Sniper - [spoiler]http://orig10.deviantart.net/6a02/f/201 ... 8npe7r.png[/spoiler]

User avatar
Polyphase Avatron
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6643
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:48 am

Re: If You Could Change The Previous Villains.

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Sun Jan 05, 2014 2:01 am

KentalSSJ6 wrote:
IDreamtIWasABee wrote:Majin Boo would be a sorcerer. And he wouldn't kill mortals, he would eradicate souls.
Wouldn't that mean anyone who was killed by Buu would be unable to come back and be erased from existence? Cause...Buu blew up earth and everyone on it.
Well there was a guy complaining that there being no permanent death in DBZ made it boring...
Cool stuff that I upload here because Youtube will copyright claim it: https://vimeo.com/user60967147

User avatar
SingleFringe&Sparks
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1642
Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:55 pm
Location: Mt. Paozu/East District

Re: If You Could Change The Previous Villains.

Post by SingleFringe&Sparks » Tue Jan 07, 2014 2:23 am

I would Cut+Paste Doomsdays character bakstory and give it to Broly. I think it would fit him perfectly and get rid of that ''kakarot kept me up at night'' trauma out. I would also have him hate Goku because he looks like Bardock. Ièd say that He hates Bardock Because Bardock tried to asassinate him as a baby due to his future vision telling him about Brolys power coming. 'hed call out ''kakarot" because he heard bardock call out to him as his son before planet Vegeta blew up and wanted him to avenge them... but Broly wants to Kill Kakarot in revenge and proof of his superiority.

I would give Buu a backstory and tie him to Whis and Beers.
I would say Kid Buu was a prototype creation created to be the next God of destruction in Beers absence. Whis created him and Bibidi brought him to life... but due to the Majin Magic, he had no concience but pure destruction. He went on a rampage because he has no soul but became a demon solely created to follow his purpose. Bibidi tries to convince Whis that he can control buu and would have him ready to serve Beers in aid of his slumber but he couldnt control him, thus sealed him away. When Goku beats him, Beers sees that in his dream and knows its time to wake up. He looks for Goku who has proven to be the strongest mortal in the universe and is honored to challenge Beers for the place as his real apprentice because he defeated Buu.

I also would have swapped out the arrival of Mecha Freeza and king cold for Cooler.
Goku biefly passes by cooler in his space ship thinking he was Freeza.
Cooler kicks everyones ass being stronger than Freeza and Fights Trunks in his Final Form.
Goku arrives just in time to stop cooler.Trunks is surprised to see Goku and tells him hes just like the stories he heard about him.

I would give King Cold his own movie swapping with Cooler's.


I would make Baby absorb Gohan instead of Vegeta and have him use Ultimate Gohans power against SSJ3 Goku. Since Gohan cant seem to utilize his full Mystic energy on his own; baby inside him would tap into it for him.
Zephyr wrote:The fandom's collective fetishizing of "moments" is also ridiculous to me. No, not everyone needs a fucking "shine" moment. If that's all you want, then all you want is fanservice, rather than an actual coherent story. And of course those aren't mutually exclusive; you could have a coherent story with "shine" moments! But if a story is perfectly coherent (and I'm really not seeing any compelling arguments that this one is anything but, despite constantly recurring, really poorly reasoned, attempts to argue otherwise), and you're bemoaning the lack of "shine" moments as a reason for the story's poor quality, then you're letting your thirst for "shine" moments obfuscate your ability to detect basic storytelling when it's right in front of you.

User avatar
petronka101
Newbie
Posts: 37
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2013 5:31 pm

Re: If You Could Change The Previous Villains.

Post by petronka101 » Fri Jan 10, 2014 1:30 pm

SingleFringe&Sparks wrote: I would give Buu a backstory and tie him to Whis and Beers.
I would say Kid Buu was a prototype creation created to be the next God of destruction in Beers absence. Whis created him and Bibidi brought him to life... but due to the Majin Magic, he had no concience but pure destruction. He went on a rampage because he has no soul but became a demon solely created to follow his purpose. Bibidi tries to convince Whis that he can control buu and would have him ready to serve Beers in aid of his slumber but he couldnt control him, thus sealed him away. When Goku beats him, Beers sees that in his dream and knows its time to wake up. He looks for Goku who has proven to be the strongest mortal in the universe and is honored to challenge Beers for the place as his real apprentice because he defeated Buu.
I actually like this idea. The God of Destruction being involved with the creation of Buu would give more sense of continuity.

User avatar
Cursed Lemon
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1377
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 5:29 pm
Location: Location, Location
Contact:

Re: If You Could Change The Previous Villains.

Post by Cursed Lemon » Fri Jan 10, 2014 1:35 pm

KentalSSJ6 wrote: I could see Vegeta having a grand old time blowing up Goku shaped robots.
This needs to happen PURELY for the opportunity of DBA to spoof it.
Special Beam Cannon!

(゚Д゚)σ 弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌⊃

Post Reply