Has TFS damaged the reputation of the franchise in the U.S.?

[Captain Awesome]

As I said. Pretentious.

ABED is simply being rather steadfast and unyielding in his view. The only affected pretence in this thread is your self proclaimed acting finesse and general lack of humility.

You all do a fine job hamming up a schtick for an incredibly popular Youtube series, don't make it any more complicated than that because it will simply not hold up to any kind of structured analysis or critique.

[VegettoEX]

Yeah, Kaiser, you're not helping your case at all. I'm on the fence about issuing some account warnings here... to quite a few people.

That being said, I also can't understand in the least ABED's apparent position that you can't poke fun at something you love without there being an ulterior motive. I mean, I honestly cannot understand that position. I'm incapable of understanding it. There is a complete lack of my understanding it. Does not compute. Error.

I would agree 100% with the statement that you must have some type of massive insecurity to not be able to find fault in and even poke fun at something you love. Art cannot be perfect due to its very nature. Art is subjective and beautiful and ugly. You can see all of that in the same piece of art at the same time.

[KaiserNeko]

As I said. Pretentious.

ABED is simply being rather steadfast and unyielding in his view. The only affected pretence in this thread is your self proclaimed acting finesse and general lack of humility.

You all do a fine job hamming up a schtick for an incredibly popular Youtube series, don't make it any more complicated than that because it will simply not hold up to any kind of structured analysis or critique.

Self proclaimed? I'm allowed to personally believe that the acting of the people I work with is solid and I have the legitimate work we've all garnered to further support my claim that my team, as a whole, is full of people who can act.

I also went out of my way to first, and foremost, state that I am not amongst the most talented of us. It is not impossible to have humility and and take pride in one's abilities and be confident.

As for your second point: I'm fully well aware that our series has a ton of flaws. Fact is, I've refrained from arguing with most of the people here about their critiques of our series because a lot of them are valid. We started off incredibly rocky, we're often very crude, the movies are usually very polarizing in terms of quality because we basically treat them with less care and just go crazy with them, which some people either like or don't. We've improved a lot, but each new episode is by no means flawless and I don't particularly mean to come off as someone who believes we're beyond critique. But I love this forum and it's one of the few places I'll respond to criticism I don't necessarily agree with, or attitudes that I take issue with.

It's a really frustrating concept that people believe that, just because I believe in the work of myself and my team, that I want to defend it, I have no humility or that I think our poop smells like roses; that's just not fair.

Yeah, Kaiser, you're not helping your case at all. I'm on the fence about issuing some account warnings here... to quite a few people.

Sorry, you're right. Calling him pretentious was getting personal and it's less about properly refuting his point and more of an ad hominem. Sorry, ABED.

[Captain Awesome]

Self proclaimed? I'm allowed to personally believe that the acting of the people I work with is solid and I have the legitimate work we've all garnered to further support my claim that my team, as a whole, is full of people who can act.

I meant "your" in the collective sense, It read a little more personal than I had intended, I apologise.

I also went out of my way to first, and foremost, state that I am not amongst the most talented of us. It is not impossible to have humility and and take pride in one's abilities and be confident.

I would actually disagree, when I speak of humility I mean it in the sense of having a clear sober evaluation of one's strengths or weaknesses in context, pride and humility aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.

As for your second point: I'm fully well aware that our series has a ton of flaws. Fact is, I've refrained from arguing with most of the people here about their critiques of our series because a lot of them are valid. We started off incredibly rocky, we're often very crude, the movies are usually very polarizing in terms of quality because we basically treat them with less care and just go crazy with them, which some people either like or don't. We've improved a lot, but each new episode is by no means flawless and I don't particularly mean to come off as someone who believes we're beyond critique. But I love this forum and it's one of the few places I'll respond to criticism I don't necessarily agree with, or attitudes that I take issue with.

Well said.

That is a great attitude to have, and the only thing I would respond with is that it wasn't necessarily coming through in your previous posts. I'm certainly not expecting you to undermine or sell-short your work in conversation because that would be counter intuitive, in hindsight a better response to "You can't act!" would probably be something a little more humble "We're by no means perfect but I think we've improved leaps and bounds since we started, look at x y and z that we've done since!".

Anywho!, that's just my two cents, I'll bow out now.

[ABED]

ABED is simply being rather steadfast and unyielding in his view.

Is your critique that I'm not changing or that I'm not changing to your POV?

That being said, I also can't understand in the least ABED's apparent position that you can't poke fun at something you love without there being an ulterior motive. I mean, I honestly cannot understand that position. I'm incapable of understanding it. There is a complete lack of my understanding it. Does not compute. Error.

I would agree 100% with the statement that you must have some type of massive insecurity to not be able to find fault in and even poke fun at something you love. Art cannot be perfect due to its very nature. Art is subjective and beautiful and ugly. You can see all of that in the same piece of art at the same time.

I never claimed it's wrong to never find fault with something you enjoy. It's not hard to find posts where I've criticized something from DB, and I'm more than fine with poking fun at them. I'm well aware of DB's faults, but I don't see any constructive purpose in making that a preoccupation of mine to make an entire series where all we did is poke fun at its faults. It may very well be the case that all they do is poke fun at the plot holes, etc. but an entire series where that's all you do?

I'm fine with parody. Take the Robin Hood: Men in Tights. It's a great parody, and very funny. My favorite line is, "Unlike other Robin Hoods, I can speak with an English accent." Obviously, it's making fun of the fact that other iterations haven't used the accent appropriate of an English character. However, it doesn't just undercut that character or of his heroism.

"You can't act!"

To piggy back off of Captain Awesome, perhaps I could be more tactful.

[VegettoEX]

It may very well be the case that all they do is poke fun at the plot holes, etc. but an entire series where that's all you do?

You have a complete/fundamental misunderstanding of what TeamFourStar's Dragon Ball Z Abridged is. I don't know - nor care (it's not like I made it) - if that's due to your not really checking it out besides a few spot checks (that may or may not back up what you think the overall series is), a stubborn refusal to admit that you don't know what it is, etc...

But that's only the first part of everyone's problem with your statements/viewpoints. The rest of it is still the inherent nature of your having a problem with EVEN IF IT WERE just a series that exclusively poked fun at the problems with the franchise.

What I do care about is when a conversation can't take place because one or more/both sides don't even understand the conversation itself in the first place.

[Captain Awesome]

Is your critique that I'm not changing or that I'm not changing to your POV?

It was more of a semantic nitpick over the use of the word pretentious than anything else :p.

As for my point of view on parody, especially where DBZA is concerned, I would argue that it ceased being a straight parody of DBZ quite some time ago, and has instead matured into something else entirely. I could see your point perhaps if more of the humour was at the expense of the source material, but at least from my vantage point a great deal of the comedy (like it or loathe it) has more to do with the writer's comedic tastes than anything else.

[Zephyr]

Undercut means "to undermine, to make weaker or less effective".

Even by that definition, I don't see how the Abridged series does this at all.

I don't see any constructive purpose in making that a preoccupation of mine to make an entire series where all we did is poke fun at its faults. It may very well be the case that all they do is poke fun at the plot holes, etc. but an entire series where that's all you do?

That's far from all they do. They show many of the series' strengths in a positive light as well, make nods to the differences between the original Japanese version and the FUNi dub, and poke fun at certain aspects of the fandom.

[ABED]

I've said what wanted, I'm bowing out. If you think I'm missing the moments where they don't just criticize aspects of the show, feel free to post a link.

[KentalSSJ6]

Can't we all just agree it's funny and it makes us laugh?

[Doctor.]

Can't we all just agree it's funny and it makes us laugh?

That's the issue here.

[Zephyr]

Ones that immediately come to mind:

Does the series justice, treats it with respect, tries to paint good parts of the series in a positive light, etc:
Episode 28, 11:00. Goku's Kaio-ken Kamehameha is played with complete seriousness.
Episode 30 (part 1), 2:00. Goku's transformation into a Super Saiyan makes him very clearly more angry ans serious about everything.
Episode 36, 9:58. Vegeta's Big Bang Attack is treated the same way as Goku's Kamehameha in Ep 28.
Episode 42, 12:45. Perfectly builds up Cell's creepiness during his debut.

Makes nods to/pokes fun at aspects of the fandom:
Episode 17, 0:50. The "Broly's power is maximum" thing is referenced by Vegeta.
Episode 31, 3:14. Dragon Ball "Hoshi" is briefly name dropped.

Pokes fun at/references the dub and their silly changes:
Episode 25, 3:07 and Episode 42, 10:41. Piccolo's little speech after fusing with Nail from the dub happens. Again referenced in Ep 42.
Episode 33, 1:33. Freeza's altered name spelling in the dub is referenced.
Episode 36, 7:41. Vegeta's explanation for reaching Super Saiyan Grade II from the dub is referenced.

[SingleFringe&Sparks]

You use other people's opinions as if that's the determining factor of something's validity. So what if other people say something is good. 1 - not all critics agree, and 2 - their word isn't gospel.

I say you're wrong because it's a bad concept. Humor undermines things, and it's great in certain contexts, but not when you blur the distinction between poking fun at virtues and poking fun at flaws. I honestly think DBZA does just that.

So you rely on YOUR OWN OPINION, as opposed to the opinions of creators with years more experience and knowledge than you in fields such as filmmaking, writing, music, etc., as well the millions upon millions of fans who appreciate their work, thus proving that it is an effective, if not valid, form of parody.

If their word is not gospel, yours is certainly, by and large, less so.

As I said. Pretentious.

You dont need a degree in humour to know if something is funny or not, what you find funny is often enough a subconcious reflection of your own intelligence which is measured by what connects to your sense of humour or understanding to determine the quality of humour. I agree enough with ABED, that I dont like the Parodies done the way TFS has handled their own, their popularity doesnt regulate what impression you should be allowed to have judging their presentation. What they say to advertise it doesnt matter.

[jjgp1112]

The only things Abridged actively makes fun of is some of the more egregious plot holes or silly lines from the dub. Most of Abridged is taking Dragon Ball, intentionally flanderizing the characters, and pushing the story into bizarre levels of absurdity and deconstructing certain concepts to show how funny they can be when cast in a different perspective. ABED seems to think of it as some sort of MST3K-like take on Dragon Ball but that's not the case at all.

[KaiserNeko]

You dont need a degree in humour to know if something is funny or not, what you find funny is often enough a subconcious reflection of your own intelligence which is measured by what connects to your sense of humour or understanding to determine the quality of humour. I agree enough with ABED, that I dont like the Parodies done the way TFS has handled their own, their popularity doesnt regulate what impression you should be allowed to have judging their presentation. What they say to advertise it doesnt matter.

I... think you're missing my point?

ABED expressly stated that I was wrong, that the idea of Affectionate Parodies (and apparently (?) that our show doesn't fall under the category) is objectively faulty. The argument I'm making is that his opinion (not about where our show fits on the spectrum of comedy, merely the who idea of Affectionate Parodies and the way he's put forth his opinion on them) is disputed by many, many people, plenty of which have more experience and knowledge in and of several creative fields than he does.

[ImmaDeker]

Can't we all just agree it's funny and it makes us laugh?

Not to stir the pot, but assuming you're not kidding, I'm not sure what you thought "Can't we all agree my feelings on the matter are correct?" was supposed to accomplish.

Also oh my God Kaiser why are you capitalizing a phrase that isn't a proper noun?

[KaiserNeko]

Not to stir the pot, but assuming you're not kidding, I'm not sure what you thought "Can't we all agree my feelings on the matter are correct?" was supposed to accomplish.

I think the point of their post was merely to say, "Can't we just agree some people enjoy it and some people don't and move one?"

Also oh my God Kaiser why are you capitalizing a phrase that isn't a proper noun?

Because some people world burning yadayadayada.

[ImmaDeker]

TV Tropes would explain a lot about the Abridged genre's writing overall. Also the Dark Knight reference.

I'm pretty sure "Can't we all agree it's funny?" is the least effective way to say "Can we just agree some people do and don't find it funny?" humanly possible. It's actually the opposite of effective communication.

[SingleFringe&Sparks]

You dont need a degree in humour to know if something is funny or not, what you find funny is often enough a subconcious reflection of your own intelligence which is measured by what connects to your sense of humour or understanding to determine the quality of humour. I agree enough with ABED, that I dont like the Parodies done the way TFS has handled their own, their popularity doesnt regulate what impression you should be allowed to have judging their presentation. What they say to advertise it doesnt matter.

I... think you're missing my point?

ABED expressly stated that I was wrong, that the idea of Affectionate Parodies (and apparently (?) that our show doesn't fall under the category) is objectively faulty. The argument I'm making is that his opinion (not about where our show fits on the spectrum of comedy, merely the who idea of Affectionate Parodies and the way he's put forth his opinion on them) is disputed by many, many people, plenty of which have more experience and knowledge in and of several creative fields than he does.

Maybe, but from what I see: he might be the only one that is willing to admit he doesnt like it nor finds it funny but more distasteful among anyone else who's seen it that thinks higher than the series than what the Abridged version does to it when people percieve it. There isnt anything that really appeals about it, if it isnt consistent with what its making fun of - and the flanderizations seem to harm the characters more than uplift them - but that again is the fanbase's fault.

[KaiserNeko]

TV Tropes would explain a lot about the Abridged genre's writing overall.

I'm pretty sure "Can't we all agree it's funny?" is the least effective way to say "Can we just agree some people do and don't find it funny?" humanly possible. It's actually the opposite of effective communication.

I know, and I almost said something myself.

Also, what about TV Tropes?