New Animation VS Old Animation

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JulieYBM
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Re: New Animation VS Old Animation

Post by JulieYBM » Fri Aug 21, 2015 2:11 am

Oh, no, I was just adding on to what you were saying.

As for Yamamuro, he might simply be focusing on designing the new characters for upcoming episodes. I do hope he backs away from the series and lets someone else take over, although I'm not sure Ide or Tsuji would be as good.
DBZMerciter2005 wrote:
DragonBalllKaiHD wrote:I don't condemn off-models (I actually enjoy seeing Toshiyuki Kan'no's work in Dragon Ball Z). But it would be nice if they draw on-models every a few episode or so. The detailed animation is always nice to look at, especially in motion, like the Seigasha episodes. Naruto Shippuden has some pretty good off-models animation, but they are good because they had better planning and schedules, which Super obviously doesn't have. Yamamuro's character designs don't help either. Speaking of Yamamuro, I wonder what he is up to now. His presence isn't felt in the new series. I wonder if promoting Ide as the chief animation supervisor was only because Yamamuro doesn't want to do too much anymore.
I've seen Yamamuro's name thrown around a lot with a negative tone. Why are his character designs so disliked? I think his stuff looks just fine. It's not like his stuff was as bad as Uchiyama's. (Note: I'm looking at the Kanzenshuu animation guide so feel free to correct me where I'm wrong.)
Yamamuro isn't the animator or character designer he used to be. His designs have become uglier over the years, specifically the faces. As the main animation supervisor for the various modern works he seems to have discouraged animator individuality and brought an overall homogenized look and feel to Dragon Ball. This homogenization is made worse by just how unremarkable Yamamuro is as an animator--he has no specialty. He isn't skilled at character animation, dance animator or action animation. Yamamuro's recently taken to directing and storyboarding, but like his animation he lacks any sort of sense for telling a story interestingly. The Majin Buu arc Opening for Dragon Ball Kai looks nothing like a high-quality Opening animation and Fukkatsu no F conveys information in the most blatant and disengaged manner possible.

Yamamuro's been with the franchise a long time but he hasn't improved. He's stayed stuck in the early 1990s while his underclassmen have all moved on and added new aspects to their character. Yamamuro keeps falling back on the same old, tired tricks and animators. There's no sense of competition like one sees in most of the PreCure films or better series.
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Re: New Animation VS Old Animation

Post by HybridSaiyan » Sun Aug 23, 2015 9:49 am

I don't understand Toei's deal anymore. How can they create such a masterpiece In 1990's but destroy It In 2015.
Why Is It that the originals are always the best? Let the Classics remain Classics. DBZ is just a quick cash grab now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4WPr1MBZvo

This Intro Is better than any of the 2008+ work done by Toei. Face the facts lol. If people defend Toei nowadays It just means they have their fanboy goggles on.

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Re: New Animation VS Old Animation

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Sun Aug 23, 2015 9:59 am

Why can't the newer stuff be more like the 2008 OVA?
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.

I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.

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Re: New Animation VS Old Animation

Post by JulieYBM » Sun Aug 23, 2015 12:07 pm

DBZAOTA482 wrote:Why can't the newer stuff be more like the 2008 OVA?
Yamamuro Tadayoshi doesn't feel like drawing his designs like that.
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Re: New Animation VS Old Animation

Post by HybridSaiyan » Sun Aug 23, 2015 12:23 pm

Image

Quality Difference so high with this one. Krillin grew younger, Gohan looks terrible and Vegeta raging...no..no words..

This Is the kind of quality we expect to see In Dragon Ball Super

Image Image Image Image Image Image

Perfect fight choreography, truly gets me In the mood.

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Re: New Animation VS Old Animation

Post by bkev » Sun Aug 23, 2015 4:51 pm

All right, I'll grant you the character design flaws you listed above. That's down to personal taste.

But you're comparing apples to oranges with Super and the movies. Of course the movies look better. Is there a single episode of the tv series that looks as good as anything you just posted? If you're serious about a debate, use equivalent examples.
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Re: New Animation VS Old Animation

Post by GsTvo » Sun Aug 23, 2015 10:04 pm

bkev wrote: Of course the movies look better. Is there a single episode of the tv series that looks as good as anything you just posted? If you're serious about a debate, use equivalent examples.
Movies almost always looks better, you're right. But we have some tremendous quality battles in some DBZ episodes:

- Goku Kaioken x20: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFustuArbdU
- Goku vs Nappa: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWlcKnR2sy8
- Vegeta vs Reecome: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOaydfSuTP4

And differents parts of Goku vs Freeza, Goku vs Vegeta (both of it), Gohan vs Cell, Goku and Vegeta vs Majin Boo, etc. There was already 7 episodes of Super, and that kind of quality isn't appear in the fights.... at this point in Z we already had Goku and Piccolo vs Raditz (another good battle).

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Re: New Animation VS Old Animation

Post by Cipher » Sun Aug 23, 2015 10:37 pm

Z had some great fight animation, to be sure (but only a handful of really stunning sequences out over its nearly 300-episode run), and Super has thus far under-delivered on that front -- so I'm not defending it there -- but the kind of movie-level choreography cited above was never really an element of Z; it's not how Toriyama's ever rolled, even at the peak of the manga's focus on battles. Lots of stuff happens in the battles, but very rarely is it ever real fighting choreography, and rarely is it as fluid as anything seen in the films.

That said, if you are looking for that, Resurrection F has sequences that stack up just fine against any of the older films.

Re: Kuririn: That's unfair. Many of the characters are looking a bit slimmer and smaller these days because Toei is taking cues from Toriyama's current art style, as they've always done.

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Re: New Animation VS Old Animation

Post by ParkerAL » Mon Aug 24, 2015 12:55 pm

HybridSaiyan wrote:Image

Quality Difference so high with this one. Krillin grew younger, Gohan looks terrible and Vegeta raging...no..no words..
I prefer the Super shot of Gohan, to be honest. He looks too much like Vegeta in the older frame (and his nose is too pointy). One thing I've noticed about Toei's older animation is that they tended to draw the Saiyans to look a lot more similar to one another, expediting a problem with Toriyama's art where he reused the same general facial features for different characters. More recent Dragon Ball animations at least do somewhat better at differentiating how they look.
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Re: New Animation VS Old Animation

Post by PolatGuy92 » Fri Aug 28, 2015 4:57 am

What I notice in some scenes of DB Super is that they make Vegeta's hair longer. Didn't pay much attention about Goku's hair, but I always dislike the way their hair was drawn.. It's so short and looks weird on them. I also notice that they tone down the shading on the characters which is also a plus for me right now.

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Re: New Animation VS Old Animation

Post by VintageSaiyan » Fri Aug 28, 2015 6:02 pm

ParkerAL wrote:
HybridSaiyan wrote:Image

Quality Difference so high with this one. Krillin grew younger, Gohan looks terrible and Vegeta raging...no..no words..
I prefer the Super shot of Gohan, to be honest. He looks too much like Vegeta in the older frame (and his nose is too pointy). One thing I've noticed about Toei's older animation is that they tended to draw the Saiyans to look a lot more similar to one another, expediting a problem with Toriyama's art where he reused the same general facial features for different characters. More recent Dragon Ball animations at least do somewhat better at differentiating how they look.
For me it was one of the most defining moments for Gohan coming into his own as a character. You can argue that during the Cell arc, but that shot specifically was like "I'm finally here" as a protector of the earth. The new one looks plastic and lifeless.

And yuck, compare the vegeta shots..it's really night and day.

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Re: New Animation VS Old Animation

Post by JulieYBM » Fri Aug 28, 2015 7:14 pm

PolatGuy92 wrote:What I notice in some scenes of DB Super is that they make Vegeta's hair longer. Didn't pay much attention about Goku's hair, but I always dislike the way their hair was drawn.. It's so short and looks weird on them. I also notice that they tone down the shading on the characters which is also a plus for me right now.
Key animators all draw the way they like, so there's going to be inconsistencies.
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Re: New Animation VS Old Animation

Post by LonelyShadow » Fri Aug 28, 2015 7:49 pm

JulieYBM wrote:
PolatGuy92 wrote:What I notice in some scenes of DB Super is that they make Vegeta's hair longer. Didn't pay much attention about Goku's hair, but I always dislike the way their hair was drawn.. It's so short and looks weird on them. I also notice that they tone down the shading on the characters which is also a plus for me right now.
Key animators all draw the way they like, so there's going to be inconsistencies.
I have to ask, did that usually happened during DBZ? I honestly don't recall a scene where the hair of some characters looked weird in a certain frame or scene, although, I haven't watched the series in a while... I did notice that Vegeta's hair looked quite long (and awesome) at the end of episode 6 of Super compared to the rest of it.

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Re: New Animation VS Old Animation

Post by JulieYBM » Fri Aug 28, 2015 8:01 pm

LonelyShadow wrote:
JulieYBM wrote:
PolatGuy92 wrote:What I notice in some scenes of DB Super is that they make Vegeta's hair longer. Didn't pay much attention about Goku's hair, but I always dislike the way their hair was drawn.. It's so short and looks weird on them. I also notice that they tone down the shading on the characters which is also a plus for me right now.
Key animators all draw the way they like, so there's going to be inconsistencies.
I have to ask, did that usually happened during DBZ? I honestly don't recall a scene where the hair of some characters looked weird in a certain frame or scene, although, I haven't watched the series in a while... I did notice that Vegeta's hair looked quite long (and awesome) at the end of episode 6 of Super compared to the rest of it.
Dragon Ball Z Episode #230 has Gokuu and Vegeta shifting between Kan'no Toshiyuki's detailed look and the more simply and triangular drawings of Animation Supervisor Ebisawa Yukio. I seem to recall the size of Gokuu's hair changing depending on the cut in the Last House episodes, too.
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Re: New Animation VS Old Animation

Post by LonelyShadow » Fri Aug 28, 2015 8:35 pm

JulieYBM wrote:Dragon Ball Z Episode #230 has Gokuu and Vegeta shifting between Kan'no Toshiyuki's detailed look and the more simply and triangular drawings of Animation Supervisor Ebisawa Yukio. I seem to recall the size of Gokuu's hair changing depending on the cut in the Last House episodes, too.
Oh my... Yeah, I never notice it, that's very weird looking, Vegeta's hair look's incredibly short during many frames.
Also, SSJ2 Goku has too many front hair bangs. Is it me or did they draw their chins enormous? It looks gross in many shots, seriously.

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Re: New Animation VS Old Animation

Post by coola » Sun Aug 30, 2015 5:40 am

Translation from precure.livejournal (About Princess Precure)

>We've passed GoPri's mid point, how was the response thus far?
>Tanaka: I'm in the eye of the storm, so honestly I don't know much about the viewers response. However, going by the children's opinion, I think we're being appreciated, are we not?
>Did you have something in mind when creating Go!Pri?
>T.: "Being the 12 series, the franchise has become quite big, we tried to return to the origin point of a shoujo manga, by [powering through the king's road*]. I think the appeal of Precure is indeed the typical hardworking shoujo heroine and the transformation hero component.It seems like lately idols related products targeted at little girls are in vogue, but we will protect Precure's individuality without being swept by the current. The earnest effort and the drama that is born thereof, impressive battles; never fearing these ubiquitous elements, and depicting them rightly. That's what I have in mind.
>We have certainly felt that the transformations and the battle depictions compared to previous years have added power to them.
>T: We owe a great deal to the character designer Nakatani Yukiko for the very Princess-like costumes. The Mode Elegant is very dazzling and all but animating them presents quite a few problems. Therefore by using full 3d for the finishing techniques, we can preserve the sakuga team* and instead use that (effort) on the 2d battle scenes, and whenever we feel like there's something important going on in the slice of life scenes. Thanks to this we can achieve a richness of sakuga that won't lose to the one of the series we had this far.

Nice, so CGI in anime can be good thing after all, newest DB Movies could use CGI in similar way
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Re: New Animation VS Old Animation

Post by HybridSaiyan » Sun Aug 30, 2015 9:01 am

Image

Image

Image

Why does Vegeta look sort of...different in super?

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Re: New Animation VS Old Animation

Post by LonelyShadow » Sun Aug 30, 2015 9:20 am

HybridSaiyan wrote:
Why does Vegeta look sort of...different in super?
Uh? He looks fine to me:
Actually, he looked very weird in Dragon Ball Z:

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Re: New Animation VS Old Animation

Post by rereboy » Sun Aug 30, 2015 9:30 am

HybridSaiyan wrote:Image

Quality Difference so high with this one. Krillin grew younger, Gohan looks terrible and Vegeta raging...no..no words..

This Is the kind of quality we expect to see In Dragon Ball Super

Image Image Image Image Image Image

Perfect fight choreography, truly gets me In the mood.
You expect movie quality in the episode of a weekly series? That's not realistic.

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Re: New Animation VS Old Animation

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Sun Aug 30, 2015 9:31 am

LonelyShadow wrote:
HybridSaiyan wrote:
Why does Vegeta look sort of...different in super?
Uh? He looks fine to me:
Actually, he looked very weird in Dragon Ball Z:
Oooooo.....!!!
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.

I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.

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