Out of Character Moments in the series

[Kid Buu]

Aside from that, I'd also like to bring up Piccolo at the Cell Games. Him knowing that Gohan doesn't want to fight is completely contrived and dumb, because Gohan has so far shown no indication he won't fight when it necessary, and even outright requested to be taken to fight the androids. It's a case of the story bending over backwards to make a character look better than they are.

I still don't understand how Piccolo is fine with kids fighting against Nappa, Freeza, Androids, and Super Buu; but does not approve of kids fighting against Cell.

[MediaFanGirl93]

Aside from that, I'd also like to bring up Piccolo at the Cell Games. Him knowing that Gohan doesn't want to fight is completely contrived and dumb, because Gohan has so far shown no indication he won't fight when it necessary, and even outright requested to be taken to fight the androids. It's a case of the story bending over backwards to make a character look better than they are.

I still don't understand how Piccolo is fine with kids fighting against Nappa, Freeza, Androids, and Super Buu; but does not approve of kids fighting against Cell.

I think it's because Gohan was really helpless and really getting hurt, and Goku does nothing but stand and smile. Plus, Gohan is Piccolo's friend, so of course he's gonna get angry at Goku for doing nothing and Goku is Gohan's father.

[RandomGuy96]

Aside from that, I'd also like to bring up Piccolo at the Cell Games. Him knowing that Gohan doesn't want to fight is completely contrived and dumb, because Gohan has so far shown no indication he won't fight when it necessary, and even outright requested to be taken to fight the androids. It's a case of the story bending over backwards to make a character look better than they are.

I still don't understand how Piccolo is fine with kids fighting against Nappa, Freeza, Androids, and Super Buu; but does not approve of kids fighting against Cell.

I think it's because Gohan was really helpless and really getting hurt, and Goku does nothing but stand and smile. Plus, Gohan is Piccolo's friend, so of course he's gonna get angry at Goku for doing nothing and Goku is Gohan's father.

Huh? As Goku pointed out, Gohan wasn't taking any damage at all. He was far superior to Cell with just his regular SS power (at least the power Cell was showing everybody, but it's unlikely anyone knew he had power beyond it), and easily could've stomped him if he wasn't being such a OOC wuss. In contrast, the kids were terribly outmatched against Nappa, Freeza, the androids, and especially Buu.

[MediaFanGirl93]

I find it baffling how people are defending Goku's irresponsible actions towards Gohan. Yes Gohan was strong and he had full power, but he's not a blood knight like full-blooded Saiyans. Goku didn't even tell Gohan the plan, which led to Gohan being unprepared and getting the shit kicked out of him by Cell.

I like Goku, but this was just wrong and irresponsible of him to do.

[RandomGuy96]

I find it baffling how people are defending Goku's irresponsible actions towards Gohan. Yes Gohan was strong and he had full power, but he's not a blood knight like full-blooded Saiyans. Goku didn't even tell Gohan the plan, which led to Gohan being unprepared and getting the shit kicked out of him by Cell.

No, he got the shit kicked out of him because he acted completely contradictory to the way he had been acting for years.

[rereboy]

To me, it feels more like he froze up because everything was depending on him rather than just being afraid of Cell. See, in other situations where he fought, he was never fighting by himself while everyone was just depending on him — he was fighting alongside his friends. The Cell Games is the first time where the situation is entirely and exclusively ‘it's all up to you, Gohan’; ‘you're the only one who can do anything about this’; literally everything and everyone was centred on him. That's a lot of pressure to live up to, and it's compounded even more with the fact that he's being outright asked to completely lose control of himself. Is it any wonder he froze up?

He was the only one that could save Piccolo when third form Freeza was killing him. Yet, he acted, he tried his best, and he managed to save him.

He was the only one that could save Piccolo and the others when Cell and the Cell jrs were killing them. Yet, he didn't act, he didn't try, he just stood there.

Gohan has been in situations where the outcome depended largely or solely on him before the Cell games and he never hesitated, except in his very first real fight agaisnt Nappa where he hesitated once out of fear but quickly outgrew that feeling.

[Zephyr]

He was the only one that could save Piccolo when third form Freeza was killing him. Yet, he acted, he tried his best, and he managed to save him.

He was the only one that could save Piccolo and the others when Cell and the Cell jrs were killing them. Yet, he didn't act, he didn't try, he just stood there..

The latter was preceded by the revelation that he was the strongest fighter around, and Gohan actually thinking about how dangerous his power is.

The former was not.

Honestly if Goku just kept fighting, got his ass nearly killed, and basically made it seem like the planet was doomed, and put no direct pressure on Gohan, things would likely have turned out the same as in those previous arcs. Everything at the Cell Games was so contrived. It was all planned, just like the Saiyan arc. "Okay the good guys and bad guys are going to agree to some shit. And Gohan, we're straight up planning to do all this other stuff without your consent (or prior knowledge, at the Cell Games)".

Compare that to "okay Gohan, we know you really want to be involved right off the bat, so we'll reluctantly allow you to" seen everywhere else.

Gohan's a smart guy. He's educated. He's a scholar. He's a thinker. Sure, he's a fighter too, but he evidently needs to have considered things first. In the Namek arc, his dad was out of commission, he had to do his part, and he knew this from the get-go. He was mentally prepared to go out into space and encounter anything. Same with the Androids, which he had three years to mentally prepare for.

Right before Namek and the Androids went sour, everyone wasn't all "okay Gohan, were just handing this shit off to you, there's nothing anyone but you can do. Have fun lol". Shit just happened, and Gohan acted out of instinct. Shit didn't just happen with Cell. They tried forcing it, Gohan over-thought things, and he choked. I can relate 100%.

Sure, you can say "oh there's no precedence or buildup for Gohan doing this sort of thing!", but there was never any situation where that would have happened, because it was never all plopped onto Gohan's plate. This is setting the precedence for what happens when you try to force something that needs to go off on its own.

[rereboy]

The latter was preceded by the revelation that he was the strongest fighter around, and Gohan actually thinking about how dangerous his power is.

The former was not.

Never, not even once, has his power been shown or implied to be dangerous for anyone else besides his enemies, so that comes literally from nowhere.

Gohan has known since he was 4 years old that he is pretty powerful during his rage boosts and that he can achieve power beyond the one people he traditionally views as superior to him have, like, for example, Piccolo. And the fact that Gohan views Piccolo as a father-teacher figure that is traditionally stronger than him didn't stop him from acting and trying his best to save him from a superior adversary (third form Freeza) when he was the only one that could do something. Yet, in the Cell games, that affects him for some reason?

[Zephyr]

The latter was preceded by the revelation that he was the strongest fighter around, and Gohan actually thinking about how dangerous his power is.

The former was not.

Never, not even once, has his power been shown or implied to be dangerous for anyone else besides his enemies, so that comes literally from nowhere.

Gohan has known since he was 4 years old that he is pretty powerful during his rage boosts and that he can achieve power beyond the one people he traditionally views as superior to him have, like, for example, Piccolo. The fact that Gohan views Piccolo as a father-teacher figure that is traditionally stronger than him didn't stop him from acting and trying his best to save him from a superior adversary (third form Freeza) when he was the only one that could do something. Yet, in the Cell games, that affects him for some reason?

Never, not even once, has his power been shown or implied to be greater than ~Gokuuuuuuuu~. The unheard-of idea that he's truly now stronger than Goku comes literally from nowhere, so an unheard of reaction seems pretty natural.

Plus when was the last time he had a rage boost? On Namek? He was a great deal weaker then. Imagine how must destructive force he would have behind him now. I'm sure he imagined it.

Also Piccolo's not Goku. It wasn't Piccolo handing in the towel and saying "only you can do this Gohan", it was Goku, the guy who always came to save the day at the last minute before. The reoccurring trump card failed. Not Piccolo, the reoccurring trump card.

Also I took too long editing my previous post, sorry.

[thatdbzguy]

He was the only one that could save Piccolo when third form Freeza was killing him. Yet, he acted, he tried his best, and he managed to save him.

He was the only one that could save Piccolo and the others when Cell and the Cell jrs were killing them. Yet, he didn't act, he didn't try, he just stood there..

The latter was preceded by the revelation that he was the strongest fighter around, and Gohan actually thinking about how dangerous his power is.

The former was not.

Honestly if Goku just kept fighting, got his ass nearly killed, and basically made it seem like the planet was doomed, and put no direct pressure on Gohan, things would likely have turned out the same as in those previous arcs. Everything at the Cell Games was so contrived. It was all planned, just like the Saiyan arc. "Okay the good guys and bad guys are going to agree to some shit. And Gohan, we're straight up planning to do all this other stuff without your consent (or prior knowledge, at the Cell Games)".

Compare that to "okay Gohan, we know you really want to be involved right off the bat, so we'll reluctantly allow you to" seen everywhere else.

Gohan's a smart guy. He's educated. He's a scholar. He's a thinker. Sure, he's a fighter too, but he evidently needs to have considered things first. In the Namek arc, his dad was out of commission, he had to do his part, and he knew this from the get-go. He was mentally prepared to go out into space and encounter anything. Same with the Androids, which he had three years to mentally prepare for.

Right before Namek and the Androids went sour, everyone wasn't all "okay Gohan, were just handing this shit off to you, there's nothing anyone but you can do. Have fun lol". Shit just happened, and Gohan acted out of instinct. Shit didn't just happen with Cell. They tried forcing it, Gohan over-thought things, and he choked. I can relate 100%.

Sure, you can say "oh there's no precedence or buildup for Gohan doing this sort of thing!", but there was never any situation where that would have happened, because it was never all plopped onto Gohan's plate. This is setting the precedence for what happens when you try to force something that needs to go off on its own.

Still OOC. His power never hurt a friend, nor did he ever fear hurting someone with it.

[rereboy]

Never, not even once, has his power been shown or implied to be greater than ~Gokuuuuuuuu~. The unheard-of idea that he's truly now stronger than Goku comes literally from nowhere, so an unheard of reaction seems pretty natural.

I'm sorry, what? Aren't you forgetting the fight with Raditz? Gohan's power level at that time, with just 4 years old and no training? Even Raditz comments that Gohan was already stronger than his own father!

Plus when was the last time he had a rage boost? On Namek? He was a great deal weaker then. Imagine how must destructive force he would have behind him now. I'm sure he imagined it.

And...? Being stronger is equal to him being dangerous to people he doesn't want to hurt because...? There's literally no reason. He never hurt anyone he didn't want to hurt, the effects of his power have always only affected the ones he wanted to hurt despite being strong enough to destroy the entire planet many times over. So why, suddenly, being strong enough to destroy the planet even more times over than before is a danger for anyone that he doesn't want to hurt...? There's quite literally no reason to think that, at all.

Also Piccolo's not Goku. It wasn't Piccolo handing in the towel and saying "only you can do this Gohan", it was Goku, the guy who always came to save the day at the last minute before. The reoccurring trump card failed. Not Piccolo, the reoccurring trump card.

Irrelevant. The fact that Goku couldn't save Piccolo from Freeza didn't stop Gohan from trying his best and acting to save Piccolo, and he succeeded. At most, the surprise of what Goku said could throw Gohan off his game at first, but once his friends and family were in mortal danger, Saiyan arc Gohan and Namek arc Gohan would act and try his best to save them, attacking Cell and the Cell jrs. Cell arc Gohan simply doesn't do this and has no good reason to act this way.

And that's the real problem. Its not his initial hesitation when he briefly fights Cell, its his hesitation when everybody is about to die.

The fact that its the death of one character (a robot) who is not part of the gang, is conveniently less important and was already all but destroyed, that makes Gohan act instead of his friends and family being mortal danger, even though Gohan had never even talked to him or even knew him, just shows how this entire section is all about the added drama and plot instead of the natural evolution of Gohan's character.

[thatdbzguy]

rereboy nailed it. How anyone can possibly believe that Gohan wasn't OOC duringthat point in time baffles me. Every argument defending Gohan is so easily refutable.

Didn't want to hurt his friends? Never did before, nor did he ever show concern about it.
Was shocked at being stronger than Goku? He already knew this when Raditz was defeated.
Never liked to fight? That never caused him to act like he did in the Cell Games.

I feel as though people are reading a completely different manga/watching a completely different anime than I am. Gohan's actions in the Cell Games are not in-character. They are not justifiable. Everything about it contradicts what was already established about his character for no good reason other than to add pitifully artificial drama.

[ABED]

rereboy nailed it. How anyone can possibly believe that Gohan wasn't OOC duringthat point in time baffles me. Every argument defending Gohan is so easily refutable.
Was shocked at being stronger than Goku? He already knew this when Raditz was defeated.

Except that Goku pulled ahead of him shortly thereafter.

[thatdbzguy]

rereboy nailed it. How anyone can possibly believe that Gohan wasn't OOC duringthat point in time baffles me. Every argument defending Gohan is so easily refutable.
Was shocked at being stronger than Goku? He already knew this when Raditz was defeated.

Except that Goku pulled ahead of him shortly thereafter.

That's irrelevant. What matters is that there was a time where Gohan knew he was stronger than Goku, so saying that he acted like he did in the Cell Games because he never knew he was stronger than Goku is flat-out wrong.

[Zephyr]

Aren't you forgetting the fight with Raditz? Gohan's power level at that time, with just 4 years old and no training? Even Raditz comments that Gohan was already stronger than his own father!

Fair enough, there is indeed one slight instance of precedence for this kind of thing. One that Gohan was knocked unconscious immediately after, and not informed of the explicit details of. This is still THE big bad. THE final battle. And the de-facto "strongest guy around", his father, is throwing in the towel, and tagging in and passing the torch to Gohan. That's very different from the Raditz fight.

Hypothetically, if Gohan was outside of the pod, watched Goku and Raditz duking it out, only for Goku to just be all "okay Gohan, it's your turn to fight, you're the only one who can do anything because you're way stronger than I am!" after years of getting his skin saved by an always superior Goku at the last second, I doubt things would have gone down the same as they actually did against Raditz. Because the situations are different.

There's quite literally no reason to think that, at all.

Perhaps he thinks that now that he's incredibly stronger he might have the chance of causing more permanent destruction on accident? He's been in rage boost mode in base form plenty of times before, but he's never been in rage boost mode as a Super Saiyan. I think that is quite literally a reasonable fear, a reasonable unknown to be suspicious of.

The fact that its the death of one character (a robot) who is not part of the gang, is conveniently less important and was already all but destroyed, that makes Gohan act instead of his friends and family being mortal danger

So he didn't snap when people weren't dying, and did snap when someone did die? Seems reasonable.

once his friends and family were in mortal danger, Saiyan arc Gohan and Namek arc Gohan would act and try his best to save them, attacking Cell and the Cell jrs. Cell arc Gohan simply doesn't do this and has no good reason to act this way.

This is true. But Saiyan arc Gohan and Namek arc Gohan also weren't in a contrived setting where the villain is trying to get Gohan to lose his temper for the sake of entertainment, and is trying to force it. This is all while he's under extreme pressure and reasonably fearful of the unknown depths of his full power. Would they have acted very hesitantly the way Cell Games Gohan does? We don't know if Saiyan/Namek Gohan would have behaved the way Cell Games Gohan does in the Cell Games, because Saiyan/Namek Gohan were never in the Cell Games with all of these factors influencing them.

The main thing here is that there are so many factors here compounding together that were never simultaneously present together at any single moment in the past. There is no precedence for how Gohan would behave given all of these simultaneously compounding factors, because they've never coalesced like this before. If they had before, and he acted just fine then, then there would be a solid, irrefutable case for Gohan being OOC here. But they haven't, so there's not.

rereboy nailed it. How anyone can possibly believe that Gohan wasn't OOC duringthat point in time baffles me. Every argument defending Gohan is so easily refutable.

Could you at the very least contribute your own thoughts to a discussion instead of just parroting others?

[penguintruth]

As I've proven again and again, the people who think Gohan is OoC in the Cell Games have no ground to stand on whatsoever.

The lack of reading comprehension in this thread is staggering.

[ABED]

So he didn't snap when people weren't dying, and did snap when someone did die? Seems reasonable.

But not someone he had a connection to, and the piece of advice that he got was something Gohan had to already know by that point. It was forced drama.

That's irrelevant. What matters is that there was a time where Gohan knew he was stronger than Goku, so saying that he acted like he did in the Cell Games because he never knew he was stronger than Goku is flat-out wrong.

Wrong, Goku's always been the guy that everyone counted on to beat the big bad. It was a fluke that he was stronger than his father, he couldn't control it, and doesn't have great recollection of it happening.

[thatdbzguy]

As I've proven again and again, the people who think Gohan is OoC in the Cell Games have no ground to stand on whatsoever.

The lack of reading comprehension in this thread is staggering.

I know this will probably sound ironic coming from me, but how about you actually prove to us how Gohan wasn't OOC instead of just repeatedly saying we have poor reading comprehension skills? Pretty much all of the things defending Gohan have been refuted extensively.

[penguintruth]

As I've proven again and again, the people who think Gohan is OoC in the Cell Games have no ground to stand on whatsoever.

The lack of reading comprehension in this thread is staggering.

I know this will probably sound ironic coming from me, but how about you actually prove to us how Gohan wasn't OOC instead of just repeatedly saying we have poor reading comprehension skills?

By my extensive reasoning and logical arguments that have dismantled your misreading of the entire Cell Games portion of the story completely.

It's all in page 2 of this thread. You had nothing. You continue to have nothing. You're embarrassing yourself with your lack of even the simplest reasoning skills.

You keep trotting out this same old argument in thread after thread in these forums, and it's just more waving your arms around looking for attention from somebody who might agree. Sad, really.

Your "argument" holds no water, is not reflected at all in any context the manga material might be put into. Gohan is desperate and paralyzed with despair and doesn't quite know how to bring out his power. He has the will to fight, even though he doesn't want to, but can't figure out what to do in the moment, as he is wont to do. This is very in-character.

[thatdbzguy]

It was forced drama.

The sad thing is that this sums up the entire Cyborg/Cell saga.