Your personal canon (AGAIN!)

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Your personal canon (AGAIN!)

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Wed Apr 23, 2014 9:53 am

Yeah, it's this thread again. But it's been a long time since we had one, and that was before BoG, Jaco, etc. So, here is mine (2016 update):

Toriyama Canon
Anime & Video-Games Canon
Last edited by DBZGTKOSDH on Wed Nov 09, 2016 5:13 pm, edited 4 times in total.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

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Re: Your personal canon (AGAIN!)

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Wed Apr 23, 2014 9:59 am

The manga (except for the Trunks side story), any and all non-contradictory filler, both filler arcs (just ignore the parts with Freeza, Cell, and the Ginyus, and Goku meets Pikkon in some other way. Also ignore the no dying while dead line. That wasn't the filler's fault; that hadn't been established in the manga yet.), movies 1, 5, 9, and 13, the Bardock special, and BoG.

Yes, I know there is a minor plothole in movie 1, and some weird strength stuff in movie 13. Don't care.

I don't like Minus, and the Bardock Special is better, so I go with it.

Toriyama's Trunks side story was ok, but the special was much better, so I go with it.

On a good day, I'll take GT, minus the Super 17 arc.
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Re: Your personal canon (AGAIN!)

Post by Gonstead » Wed Apr 23, 2014 10:32 am

Dragon Ball
Dragon Ball Z
Dragon Ball Z TV Special: Bardock - The Father of Goku
Episode of Bardock
Dragon Ball Z TV Special: The History of Trunks
Dragon Ball Z Movie 5: Cooler's Revenge
Dragon Ball Z Movie 9: Bojack Unbound
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Re: Your personal canon (AGAIN!)

Post by Makaioshin » Wed Apr 23, 2014 12:11 pm

Jaco the Galactic Patrolman
Perfect Edition of the manga
That one Freeza era Christmas strip
Jump Super Anime Tour Special minus Gregory's appearance
Battle of Gods
I still consider most of Online's story to count for now even though it is dead and never actually made it to Japan.
Oh, and 13-15 probably look like how they did in Z movie 7, Goku trained Oob at Mt. Paozu for awhile like in Neko Majin Z, and Toriyama's interviews and manga-centric guidebooks(though they are secondary to the actual material).

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Re: Your personal canon (AGAIN!)

Post by PhoenixEX » Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:17 pm

Pretty much everything for me. I really don't care about the plot holes as it'll take a while to actually sit down and plan out what I actually consider part of the story and what I do not. If there are plotholes, I'll just throw in the multiverse theory out there as a plausable explanation.
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Re: Your personal canon (AGAIN!)

Post by Luso Saiyan » Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:41 pm

In order of priority, whenever contradictions exist:

Dragon Ball (full-colored manga)
Dragon Ball Z: A Final, Solitary Battle
Dragon Ball: Episode of Bardock (OVA)
Toriyama interviews, notes and commentaries
Dragon Ball Kai
Dragon Ball Minus (only for Gine's character and Raditz whereabouts)
Dragon Ball Z: Battle of Gods (for now, may change with future movies)

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Re: Your personal canon (AGAIN!)

Post by Basaku » Wed Apr 23, 2014 2:06 pm

Don't have one, apart from considering the original 42 as the highest-canon authority. But apart from that? Some things were obviously never aimed to be considered canon (many of the movies) while some, like GT, obviously were, yet they are now being more and more contradicted. DB Online & GT are mutually exclusive, GT/BOG as well to a degree, Bardock special/DB Minus is another example. It's not even whether these conflict with the original 42 manga but that they conflict with each other, providing stories that can't happen both at the same time, has to be either one or another. And I fully expect Toei to one day make a clear distinction what is part of the main A story and what is not so I try not to get too stuck on anything (other than the original 42) being "totally surely canon".

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Re: Your personal canon (AGAIN!)

Post by Low Tone G » Wed Apr 23, 2014 2:31 pm

The Original Dragon Ball manga
Jaco the Galactic Partolman manga(I don't like it too much but if it's a prequel, let it be)
Dragon Ball Minus(only for Gine) = Bardock, Father of Goku TV Special (literally how it happened even if it doesn't fit with Dragon Ball Minus)
Future Trunks special story in the Original manga
Episode of Bardock manga(only if Toriyama doesn't come with someting like Bardock died against Freeza)
Yo! Son Goku and his friends return manga
Dragon Ball Z: Battle of Gods Movie

Dragon Ball GT(Shadow Dragon Saga) - but not compulsorily

And also Toriyama's interviews and comments, of course! :D
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Re: Your personal canon (AGAIN!)

Post by Luso Saiyan » Wed Apr 23, 2014 2:37 pm

Low Tone G wrote:(only if Toriyama doesn't come with someting like Bardock died against Freeza)
"Bardock has been dead for quite some time, so you probably won't be able to see him in action except in stories of the past."

Source

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Re: Your personal canon (AGAIN!)

Post by Low Tone G » Wed Apr 23, 2014 2:40 pm

Luso Saiyan wrote:
Low Tone G wrote:(only if Toriyama doesn't come with someting like Bardock died against Freeza)
"Bardock has been dead for quite some time, so you probably won’t be able to see him in action except in stories of the past."

Source
What might that mean for You personally? For me it's highly ambiguous!
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Re: Your personal canon (AGAIN!)

Post by TheDevilsCorpse » Wed Apr 23, 2014 2:50 pm

Luso Saiyan wrote:"Bardock has been dead for quite some time, so you probably won't be able to see him in action except in stories of the past."

Source
That doesn't clear anything up. What does "quite some time" mean to him? Is it the ~30 years from his death at the hands of Freeza or the ~1000 years from his death of unknown circumstances in the past?

Note, years are rough estimations from Jaco's not exactly certain year of occurrence to the Freeza Arc, where he is most relevant again.
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Re: Your personal canon (AGAIN!)

Post by Luso Saiyan » Wed Apr 23, 2014 2:51 pm

Low Tone G wrote:What might that mean for You personally? For me it's highly ambiguous!
Well, there's nothing ambiguous about "he's been dead for quite some time", but of course you can argue if he was killed by Freeza or someone else.

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Re: Your personal canon (AGAIN!)

Post by Low Tone G » Wed Apr 23, 2014 2:56 pm

Luso Saiyan wrote:
Low Tone G wrote:What might that mean for You personally? For me it's highly ambiguous!
Well, there's nothing ambiguous about "he's been dead for quite some time", but of course you can argue if he was killed by Freeza or someone else.
Or by natural causes also in the distant past? As this issue was mentioned in the Episode of Bardock interview I go with Bardock being sent in the distant past in Toriyama's view, but he could have meant that Bardock was killed by Freeza also, so it's ambiguous.
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Re: Your personal canon (AGAIN!)

Post by penguintruth » Wed Apr 23, 2014 2:56 pm

Canon: 42 volumes of Akira Toriyama's Dragon Ball manga (yeah, there's some leeway there, but very little)

Not canon: Everything else ever.
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Re: Your personal canon (AGAIN!)

Post by Basaku » Wed Apr 23, 2014 3:26 pm

penguintruth wrote:Canon: 42 volumes of Akira Toriyama's Dragon Ball manga (yeah, there's some leeway there, but very little)

Not canon: Everything else ever.
Yeah, basically the safest approach a fan can have right now. Especially in the recent few years with all the new projects coming out that conflict with each other, both from Toei and Toriyama himself lol

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Re: Your personal canon (AGAIN!)

Post by ParkerAL » Wed Apr 23, 2014 3:50 pm

My personal canon is pretty straightforward. It follows "the rule of cool." The parts of Dragon Ball that I enjoy are what I include in my personal canon. It's the same approach I take with Star Wars and its convoluted expanded universe. I ignore everything I don't like, and why shouldn't I? It's all fiction after all. Entertainment is meant to be enjoyable. If the powers-that-be introduce a story element that I feel is detrimental to my enjoyment of the overall series, I set it aside.

I'm pretty lenient when it comes to Dragon Ball. I include the entirety of the manga in my personal head canon, along with any quality anime-only content. Some specific works I prefer to ignore:

-Most of the movies - Even the ones I enjoy can't be fit within the continuity of the main work. Thankfully, there are several movies that I am more than happy to cast in the non-canon bin.
-Episode of Bardock - I liked seeing Freeza's space pirate ancestor, but I cannot abide with how this special undid Bardock's memorable sacrifice and pandered to the fan-fiction community by making him a Super Saiyan.
-Dragon Ball GT - There were parts of it I liked, but I prefer treating it as alternative universe.
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Re: Your personal canon (AGAIN!)

Post by sintzu » Wed Apr 23, 2014 3:58 pm

Manga :
Kanzenban/Full color volumes
Anime :
Dragon ball (minus the filler episodes)
Dragon ball kai
Dragon ball z bardock the father of goku
Dragon ball z the history of trunks
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Re: Your personal canon (AGAIN!)

Post by Luso Saiyan » Wed Apr 23, 2014 4:56 pm

ParkerAL wrote:but I cannot abide with how this special undid Bardock's memorable sacrifice and pandered to the fan-fiction community by making him a Super Saiyan.
I would agree with you if his transformation came out of nowhere just for the sake of it (i.e: Trunks and Goten). Fortunately the story justified it well enough.

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Re: Your personal canon (AGAIN!)

Post by Hellspawn28 » Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:19 pm

Manga: Jaco the Galactic Patrolman, DB-, EOB, Vol 1-42, the new ending with Ubb, 2008 Jump Special manga BOG and DBO.
Anime: Bardock TV special, DB Anime, DBZ Movie 1, DBZ Anime, Trunks TV special, DBZ Movie 9, DBZ Movie 13, 2008 Jump Special, GT
AU: DB Movie 1-4, every DBZ movie expect for Movie 1, 9, 13 and BOG. Every video game expect for DBO and anything else that does not fit.
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Re: Your personal canon (AGAIN!)

Post by B » Wed Apr 23, 2014 9:18 pm

I think this is in chronological order...

Jaco the Galactic Patrolman --> Dragon Ball Minus --> Episode of Bardock --> The manga proper up to chapter 517 --> Heya! Son Goku & Friends Reutrn --> Battle of Gods --> Chapters 518 and 519 of the original manga --> Dragon Ball Online

Also, any and all guidebook information/supplementary material that doesn't contradict the above. I don't understand why some folks flip their lid over inconsistencies in these things. It seems pretty easy to say "yeah, the editor wasn't paying attention in this one instant" and move on.
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