Vegeta the most evil?

[Attitudefan]

After reading on the Dragonblog, on the article "In the Defence of Nappa", seeing that even the baddest of the bad have some kind of redeeming qualities about them, maybe not enough to forgive their sins, but to not put them on the level of Vegeta's evil, backstabbing, sociopathic (bordering on psychopathic if we get a rendition by the likes of Brian Drummond), selfish, and conniving ways. For example, in the Dragonblog, he says that Nappa has a sense of kinship or attachment to close knit comrades and friends. One of his first lines is about wishing a fallen man back to life but is quickly shot down by Vegeta for a self-centred wish instead. Nappa, too, coaches his Saibaimen to go at full strength so they don't die by the Z-Fighters or by Vegeta. Nappa is compared to Tenshinhan and Goku in the blog, where Nappa, since he has the ability to feel for others, under circumstances like Goku or Ten, could end up being a caring individual. If given the chance, it is possible he could have changed his ways since he understands what it is like to lose companions. He has a bit of empathy in his heart. He kills the Z-fighters inadvertently for the most part; he isn't going to put others in harms way to win. He just likes a good fight. Vegeta, on the other hand, is willing to sacrifice everyone to get his way and shares no bond to anyone for most of the series.

Raditz is not even as bad. He doesn't go and kill Gohan as an example of his power, he didn't seem like he was even planning on that. He gave Goku many chances for Goku to join him out of respect since Goku is family. He even let all of Goku's friends live for the time being until he could convince Goku to join him. Raditz (was he really willing at any point? Possibly could have gave up his ways) even promised to change his ways before he was about to be killed even though it was a diversion. Vegeta never would do that and was never shown to show that since he would consider that as weak (and he did think Raditz was just baggage to the team).

Hell, even Freeza shows that he has something redeeming about him. He has kinship and wants acceptance by his father like after he thought he killed Trunks. Freeza acts like a child and says to his father that he can kill a Super Saiyan. At least it is something.

What do you guys think?

Discuss!

Here's a link to the Nappa article. It is written in ways I could never do. Enjoy!

http://thedragonballblog.blogspot.ca/20 ... nappa.html

[Kid Buu]

Nappa was a saint.

He merely wanted to resurrect his dead-buddy Raditz, proving that he was compassionate. When he arrives on Earth, the Earthlings just pick a fight with him. Similar to how Kami whined to Piccolo that the "protagonists" picked a fight with the Androids, they unfairly picked a fight with Nappa. Nappa was all about being fair, he never cheated once. The heroes on the other hand were assholes, and constantly tried to cheat by ganging up on him. Finally, remember that Nappa never really did anything wrong. Tenshinhan and Chaozu actually killed himselfs, and Nappa was even nice enough to avenge Chaozu's death by killing the evil Demon King Piccolo.

All the poor fella did was want to be reunited with his friend, but Goku and Vegeta stopped that. This wouldn't be the last time in the series that Goku and Vegeta would team-up to make things worse. Nappa's story is so anti-shonen and tragic I cry just thinking about it.

[Attitudefan]

Nappa was a saint.

He merely wanted to resurrect his dead-buddy Raditz, proving that he was compassionate. When he arrives on Earth, the Earthlings just pick a fight with him. Similar to how Kami whined to Piccolo that the "protagonists" picked a fight with the Androids, they unfairly picked a fight with Nappa. Nappa was all about being fair, he never cheated once. The heroes on the other hand were assholes, and constantly tried to cheat by ganging up on him. Finally, remember that Nappa never really did anything wrong. Tenshinhan and Chaozu actually killed himselfs, and Nappa was even nice enough to avenge Chaozu's death by killing the evil Demon King Piccolo.

All the poor fella did was want to be reunited with his friend, but Goku and Vegeta stopped that. This wouldn't be the last time in the series that Goku and Vegeta would team-up to make things worse. Nappa's story is so anti-shonen and tragic I cry just thinking about it.

I wasn't calling him a saint, but was a lesser of evils when compared to his partner, Vegeta. Even though you are being sracastic, you aren't wrong either. The Z-Fighters did pick a fight with him first. However, he isn't redeemable considering the crimes he commits. The first he does on Earth is destroy a city on his own accord. He does, despite his nasty, brutish, Saiyan characteristics, show a bit of compassion. Not unlike Ten or Piccolo, the former claiming to be the greatest assassin and the latter wanting to kill everyone on the island (and he did destroy a lot of it), they also had something deep in their conscience. Something that prohibited them from acting on every evil deed that comes to mind.

It's possible Nappa, if allowed to live, could have been more easily persuaded to the good side instead of being the killer he was.

[Vijay]

Vegeta was beyond every villain (Frieza, Cell, Buu) when it boils-down to being unmitigated bastard. A character with no attachments, bond & driven by pride. Add that to maniacal, evil nature of Saiyans. Phew!

I'd also go ahead & classify Imperfect Cell & Super Buu in the same group of being evil.

[Fizzer]

Vegeta was beyond every villain (Freeza, Cell, Buu) when it boils-down to being unmitigated bastard. A character with no attachments, bond & driven by pride. Add that to maniacal, evil nature of Saiyans. Phew!

I'd also go ahead & classify Imperfect Cell & Super Buu in the same group of being evil.

I think even they were more redeemable than early Vegeta. Damn, even Daimao cared about his family.

Had Raditz and Nappa been given the chance, I think it's believable that they could have been turned around (if you look at Vegeta in the Saiyan arc, it isn't believable that he could end up a family man and fighter for good). Raditz and Nappa were people with thoughts and feelings, who were simply in an immoral and criminal occupation, but Vegeta was made of dick.

[hleV]

That's what's awesome about Vegeta. Was an evil fuck → fought the Z warriors → kept being an evil fuck → joined the Z warriors → still kept being an evil fuck. That's what separates him from others like Tenshinhan and Piccolo. BOG is non-canon.

[superfunk]

The buu saga is canon and he apparently isn't evil at the end of that, just a douche. During the saiyan and namek sagas he is certainly in contention for most evil in the series.

[hleV]

The buu saga is canon and he apparently isn't evil at the end of that, just a douche. During the saiyan and namek sagas he is certainly in contention for most evil in the series.

Still counts as being an evil fuck. During the Boo arc he cared about nothing but his family (no reason to believe that at the end of the Boo arc he was ANY better than moments before when he killed hundreds of people just to make Goku fight him). And then he just KO'd that guy at the 28th TB just for being called old.

Essentially, it doesn't appear to me as if Vegeta had become that much (if any) softer throughout the arcs. Sure, he was pissed that he actually cared about someone during the Boo arc, which happened to be his family, but even those most evil will care about their closest people. As to why he threw the ways of mass murder and threatening to destroy shit, I'd say it's just growing up, coming to his senses, and getting expierence: joining up with the Z fighters provided him the means to become much, much stronger, have bigger challenges and most importantly, not fall too far behind Goku. Becoming a family man perhaps added to his happiness as well. Why change things?

Unless not doing evil things only because there's not much of a reason for that (as opposed to realizing that something is wrong and shouldn't be done) counts as being good?

[goku the krump dancer]

To be fair the guy was all up in his ear being an asshole. I mean it's nothing wrong with trash talk for the sport of it but invading someone's space getting all up in their face is just begging for a premature beat down.

[ABED]

Raditz and Nappa were people with thoughts and feelings, who were simply in an immoral and criminal occupation

He merely wanted to resurrect his dead-buddy Raditz, proving that he was compassionate. When he arrives on Earth, the Earthlings just pick a fight with him. Similar to how Kami whined to Piccolo that the "protagonists" picked a fight with the Androids, they unfairly picked a fight with Nappa. Nappa was all about being fair, he never cheated once. The heroes on the other hand were assholes, and constantly tried to cheat by ganging up on him. Finally, remember that Nappa never really did anything wrong. Tenshinhan and Chaozu actually killed himselfs, and Nappa was even nice enough to avenge Chaozu's death by killing the evil Demon King Piccolo. All the poor fella did was want to be reunited with his friend, but Goku and Vegeta stopped that. This wouldn't be the last time in the series that Goku and Vegeta would team-up to make things worse. Nappa's story is so anti-shonen and tragic I cry just thinking about it.

I really hope both of you are being facitious.

Vegeta's a bastard, and evil, but I still say Freeza's the most evil. The fact that Freeza has a nice relationship with his dad isn't a "redeemable" characteristic.

[RandomGuy96]

Tenshinhan and Chaozu actually killed themselves, and Nappa was even nice enough to avenge Chaozu's death by killing the evil Demon King Piccolo.

Okay, that one caught me off guard

I remember discussing this a while back. At the time, Vegeta was the ultimate evil, so it made sense to humanize Nappa and Raditz in some ways, just so Vegeta could look like an even colder bastard. A standout example is when he ruthlessly executed Nappa; not only does this shock everyone, but it clearly sets Vegeta as even more evil than the last big bad, Daimao, who at least cared when his kids died. A lot of Nappa's scenes, including some in filler (like when Vegeta destroyed Arlia), pretty much exist to say "those two big guys are evil, but this little guy is just a psychopath". From what we see, he's by far the most evil saiyan to ever exist, even counting the EU, rivaled only by his father.

Vegeta's a bastard, and evil, but I still say Freeza's the most evil. The fact that Freeza has a nice relationship with his dad isn't a "redeemable" characteristic.

Freeza actually had a pleasant relationship with another sentient being. Vegeta, by contrast, saw EVERYONE as a tool that could be thrown away when they lost their usefulness. Freeza is also a lot more stable than Vegeta, who's prone to killing his own men (he gives no shits about them, even though he knew Raditz and Nappa for decades), slaughtering innocent civilians who pose no threat to him, and, in the anime, even blowing up planets, on whims. Freeza will let you live if you don't have anything he wants; Vegeta will kill you for fun.

[Jackal puFF]

And he still somehow get's forgiven constantly.

[ABED]

Freeza actually had a pleasant relationship with another sentient being. Vegeta, by contrast, saw EVERYONE as a tool that could be thrown away when they lost their usefulness. Freeza is also a lot more stable than Vegeta, who's prone to killing his own men (he gives no shits about them, even though he knew Raditz and Nappa for decades), slaughtering innocent civilians who pose no threat to him, and, in the anime, even blowing up planets, on whims. Freeza will let you live if you don't have anything he wants; Vegeta will kill you for fun.

Freeza also kills for fun, he didn't have a family which he came around to loving, and he didn't help save the universe. This doesn't absolve Vegeta of his sins, but it does make him less evil. Freeza didn't just kill the entire Saiyan race, he laughed like a madman and called it "fireworks". Do you think Freeza honestly gave a crap about his henchmen?

I don't think Freeza isn't killing people out of a sense of honor, he comes off as more apathetic. Didn't Freeza threaten Zarbon and Dodoria? Both Freeza and Vegeta are cut from the same cloth.

[TheGmGoken]

More like Chilled who killed a solider because he stepped out the ship before him.

[Attitudefan]

There's a difference though. I think Freeza wouldn't necessarily want to kill his close friends/family/soldiers/bodyguards if he didn't have to. Even if he threatened Zarbon, he gave him a chance, still, because he probably liked Zarbon around and he was still useful. He threatened to kill like if a person was threatened to get fired from their job. Freeza's a bit more cruel but not like Vegeta. Vegeta, despite the possibility that a team mate could be useful or has a bond and/or kinship, he still rids them since he sees them as weak or as competition.

See how Freeza reacts once he learns all his men are dead. He is pissed. See how Vegeta reacts to people's deaths even though the cards are stacked against him when he is fighting Freeza such as Dende; Vegeta gives no shits whatsoever.

[Vijay]

Perhaps Broly could also be considered evil since he's got zero redeeming qualities. Also, while Frieza at least showed reactions when his men gets killed, Ginyu Tokusentai etc, Broly gives no shit.

Blasted Planet Shamo : gives no fuck

Crushed his Dad with his space-pod : gives no fuck.

[90sDBZ]

I think this is a dub line, not to mention filler, but I believe Nappa says "Gee Vegeta they said we were heroes" right before Vegeta blows up Arlia. On the other hand you have Nappa needlessly blowing up cities and killing innocent people. I can see the potential he had to change though.

I also think the Ginyu Force would have made great heroes. Now those guys really cared for one another.

[ABED]

I don't think he gave Zarbon a chance because he was a nice guy, he comes across as a guy that doesn't like doing what he deems a menial task. He didn't need Zarbon to go after Vegeta, he easily could've done so himself, but why do so when Vegeta's an ant to him? And I don't think he's pissed about the death of people close to him, he was pissed because someone was defying him.

Now those guys really cared for one another.

Please say you're kidding. Caring for another being isn't per say a good thing.

[Kid Buu]

King Cold is another character that is tragic.

All he wanted to do was spend time with his son, but that was against Saiyan ideology and therefore he was killed for it.

[Fizzer]

Raditz and Nappa were people with thoughts and feelings, who were simply in an immoral and criminal occupation

He merely wanted to resurrect his dead-buddy Raditz, proving that he was compassionate. When he arrives on Earth, the Earthlings just pick a fight with him. Similar to how Kami whined to Piccolo that the "protagonists" picked a fight with the Androids, they unfairly picked a fight with Nappa. Nappa was all about being fair, he never cheated once. The heroes on the other hand were assholes, and constantly tried to cheat by ganging up on him. Finally, remember that Nappa never really did anything wrong. Tenshinhan and Chaozu actually killed himselfs, and Nappa was even nice enough to avenge Chaozu's death by killing the evil Demon King Piccolo. All the poor fella did was want to be reunited with his friend, but Goku and Vegeta stopped that. This wouldn't be the last time in the series that Goku and Vegeta would team-up to make things worse. Nappa's story is so anti-shonen and tragic I cry just thinking about it.

I really hope both of you are being facitious.

Vegeta's a bastard, and evil, but I still say Freeza's the most evil. The fact that Freeza has a nice relationship with his dad isn't a "redeemable" characteristic.

I was kind of being serious. I wasn't exactly saying they're great guys - they're bad guys, they're murderers and pirates, but that's it. They're realistic. Characters like Vegeta and Freeza who were pure evil villains are different from characters like Raditz and Nappa who are people who do really bad things.

King Cold is another character that is tragic.

All he wanted to do was spend time with his son, but that was against Saiyan ideology and therefore he was killed for it.

He was most likely always trying to persuade his son to get out of the planet pirating business and come home, but in the end he couldn't get him back on the straight-and-narrow and couldn't save him, and he was driven so mad by the pain of loss that he started asking the ruthless Saiyan who killed him to be his new son