Why did Toriyama chose Chichi to be Son's wife?

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Re: Why did Toriyama chose Chichi to be Son's wife?

Post by ABED » Fri May 30, 2014 6:48 pm

DBZAOTA482 wrote:
ABED wrote:when he's broken after fighting Vegeta, she shows no concern for him, and she hadn't seen him in a year!
Interesting how you seem to really like bringing up that incident at the begining of the Namek arc everytime regarding Chi-Chi's abilities as a wife yet you don't like how people judge Goku's abilities as a father on the Cell Games. :think:
Because most people claim he's a bad father because he has Gohan fight Cell. It's ridiculous, Gohan's the only one that can do it. If Goku was strong enough, he would've done so. In case you are referring to the senzu, that changed nothing about the out come of the fight. If on a scale of 1 to 10, Cell went from 7 back to 10, Gohan was at 20, so Cell getting his full power back didn't matter.

Chichi didn't give a crap about Goku, and it doesn't make any sense. The only reason I don't make an even bigger deal is because it's played for laughs.
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Re: Why did Toriyama chose Chichi to be Son's wife?

Post by Gaffer Tape » Fri May 30, 2014 7:05 pm

I agree with ABED. The two aren't even comparable. While Goku might have made a mistake, he didn't do it willfully. When he did understand what he was putting his son through, he immediately made plans to put an end to it. Chichi just. did. not. care. And this is coming from someone who actually doesn't dislike Chichi because, well, you can't deny fact.
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Re: Why did Toriyama chose Chichi to be Son's wife?

Post by MediaFanGirl93 » Fri May 30, 2014 7:34 pm

DBZAOTA482 wrote:
ABED wrote:when he's broken after fighting Vegeta, she shows no concern for him, and she hadn't seen him in a year!
Interesting how you seem to really like bringing up that incident at the begining of the Namek arc everytime regarding Chi-Chi's abilities as a wife yet you don't like how people judge Goku's abilities as a father on the Cell Games. :think:
I don't think you're being fair to ABED. Other fans always bring up this incident just as much as ABED, but unlike ABED, those fans use it to define her whole character, while ignoring Chi-Chi's good qualities.
Gaffer Tape wrote:I agree with ABED. The two aren't even comparable. While Goku might have made a mistake, he didn't do it willfully. When he did understand what he was putting his son through, he immediately made plans to put an end to it. Chichi just. did. not. care. And this is coming from someone who actually doesn't dislike Chichi because, well, you can't deny fact.
Bah, both Goku and Chi-Chi both get criticized heavily for those incidents. I understand people criticizing Goku and Chi-Chi, but I hate how fans use it to define their characters.
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Re: Why did Toriyama chose Chichi to be Son's wife?

Post by SingleFringe&Sparks » Fri May 30, 2014 7:57 pm

B wrote:If Goku's wife just let him do whatever he wanted without complaining, she wouldn't be much of a character, I'd think.
However, I am not against Sno, or Android 8, staying in the series a little longer. When is Dragon Ball Heroes gonna give me an "Adult Sno" card?!
I find Chi Chi to be the backbone of their entire family. It would feel to simple and detaching if Bulma was with Goku, too expected and she wouldn't provide any comedy. Goku's slice of life stems from the fact that hes lazy and socially incometent. Hes like Peter, and she is Louis. (I personally hate FG, but the example fits them closer to me than Homer and Marge)
Chi chi's out of the blue strange temper tantrums could have been better suited if they were gradual instead of the instant she got married, but it ended up being the whole basis of Gohan's development roots and Goku's humanity.
MediaFanGirl93 wrote: Bah, both Goku and Chi-Chi both get criticized heavily for both of those incidents. I understand people criticizing Goku and Chi-Chi, but I hate how fans use it to define their characters.
Goku's parenting is endlessly explainable though. He isnt a human father and has nothing but instinct in his sense of how to raise a Saiyan. He raises Gohan soely based on how he raises himself. Thats his character flaw and the core of his development. Though it never changes him enough to be complete characterization but it shows his mindset unaccustomed to ours or chi chi's expectations.

Chi-Chi however didnt seem to have any reason why she did anything she does, especially the apathetic accounts. Nothing but just pure selfishness is all I can see regarding her. Or maybe shes a parody of a traditional Asian mother but even still, nothing really connects the personality U-turns she seems to have a lot. Not until Goku died for 7 years was when she slightly changed for potential development but even that was skimmed over. I think a lot of character development could have came if they shown Chi Chi progressing through the maturity and understanding that her fantasies and intense crush on Goku isnt realistic to the lifestyle he lives and wont ever get to make him what she wants, but realize why she loves him as his own person. Accept Goku is unconventional and thats why hes so attractive.


Though my question is, was chi chi ever actually informed that Goku is a Saiyan? Or that her son became and Oozaru? I dont think shes ever been told, or ever seen Gohan transform... ever.
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Re: Why did Toriyama chose Chichi to be Son's wife?

Post by ABED » Fri May 30, 2014 8:09 pm

I like chichi before the Saiyan arc and towards the end of the Cell arc when she begins lightening up. I understand being protective, but she goes too far. However, I don't harbor hatred because she's fictional and it's exaggerated for comedic effect.
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Re: Why did Toriyama chose Chichi to be Son's wife?

Post by mAcChaos » Fri May 30, 2014 10:21 pm

Chi Chi thought Goku dragged Gohan off to get beaten up by a bunch of murderers. She probably expects more from Goku on placing his son's safety as a priority.
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Re: Why did Toriyama chose Chichi to be Son's wife?

Post by Gaffer Tape » Fri May 30, 2014 10:57 pm

mAcChaos wrote:Chi Chi thought Goku dragged Gohan off to get beaten up by a bunch of murderers. She probably expects more from Goku on placing his son's safety as a priority.
Why would she have thought that? She was well aware that he had just come back from having been dead for a year, and that her son had been in the captivity of Piccolo for all that time.
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Re: Why did Toriyama chose Chichi to be Son's wife?

Post by Naughty Kinto Un » Sat May 31, 2014 1:08 am

Chi-chi is the only one tough enough to be Goku's wife. Her wild fish-out-of-water nature jibes well with Goku's own. I'm sure she sees some of the Ox King in him. Not to mention, as it's been established in the series, they share a unique, matching purity of heart.

Goku might have been fine with others, he'd probably be fine with anyone who knows how to feed him, but they would've been unhappy with him.

Besides, in my head-canon, Suno grew up to prefer women. She thought herself the only lesbian in Jingle Village until she met Ice, the local ice sculptor. They had an on-and-off relationship for many years, until at last Ice surprised Suno on their 10th anniversary with a giant, gorgeous ice sculpture ornamented in ice roses and of the words: "Will You Marry Me?"

Suno, shedding a (wo)manly shonen tear, scrawled in the snow, with her boot toe, the response: "Yes."

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Re: Why did Toriyama chose Chichi to be Son's wife?

Post by kei17 » Sat May 31, 2014 4:04 am

Why do you call him Son anyway? It's very confusing.

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Re: Why did Toriyama chose Chichi to be Son's wife?

Post by OmegaRockman » Sat May 31, 2014 4:29 am

Gaffer Tape wrote:
mAcChaos wrote:Chi Chi thought Goku dragged Gohan off to get beaten up by a bunch of murderers. She probably expects more from Goku on placing his son's safety as a priority.
Why would she have thought that? She was well aware that he had just come back from having been dead for a year, and that her son had been in the captivity of Piccolo for all that time.
I attribute it to the possibly of Chichi denying the situation as a coping mechanism after being hit with the giant bombshell of her husband dying and her son being kidnapped with a strong possibility of being killed as well. She makes up a fantasy scenario of where Goku's friends actually lied about Goku being dead and Gohan being taken by Piccolo so Goku would have the perfect alibi while he trained his four-year-old son to fight aliens. There's no way to prove to her that Goku was actually dead, after all; she never actually saw Goku's body and it was sent to the afterlife immediately after Goku died so his friend's couldn't show it to her as proof. How could she know for sure that Goku was really dead? This may take giant leaps in logic on Chichi's part, but she's in a state of emotional distress. Chichi thinking that her husband faked his death in order to train Gohan must have been much easier to deal with than accepting the truth that her family was taken away from her in one fell swoop.

To be honest, after this moment in the Saiyan arc I don't think that there was ever another example of Chichi truly being a bad wife. Most of the nagging was at least understandable to a certain degree; she just doesn't want her son to get hurt like Goku does. I mean, she saw Goku get a gaping hole shot through him! Of course she doesn't want Gohan to have the same happen! As far as her role as a wife goes, Chichi is really supportive and dearly loves her husband in my eyes. The greatest example would be when she took care of Goku practically by herself when the heart virus took effect; admittedly, it's been a while since I've watched that part, but I don't remember Chichi once leaving Goku's side until he got better. Chichi may not be a perfect wife, but when the story gives her a chance to show how much she loves her husband, she really shows it. Well, save for that moment in the Saiyan arc, that is, but we've talked about that at length already. I would even go as far as to say that the main reason why Chichi was always so lenient when it came to Goten's studying and learning martial arts was because of how much she missed Goku after his second death; I think seeing how similar Goten was to his dad made brought back fond memories of her late husband and as a result she didn't want to discourage Goten from being like him, which is the complete opposite of what she did with Gohan.
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Re: Why did Toriyama chose Chichi to be Son's wife?

Post by ABED » Sat May 31, 2014 6:49 am

OmegaRockman wrote:
Gaffer Tape wrote:
mAcChaos wrote:Chi Chi thought Goku dragged Gohan off to get beaten up by a bunch of murderers. She probably expects more from Goku on placing his son's safety as a priority.
Why would she have thought that? She was well aware that he had just come back from having been dead for a year, and that her son had been in the captivity of Piccolo for all that time.
I attribute it to the possibly of Chichi denying the situation as a coping mechanism after being hit with the giant bombshell of her husband dying and her son being kidnapped with a strong possibility of being killed as well. She makes up a fantasy scenario of where Goku's friends actually lied about Goku being dead and Gohan being taken by Piccolo so Goku would have the perfect alibi while he trained his four-year-old son to fight aliens. There's no way to prove to her that Goku was actually dead, after all; she never actually saw Goku's body and it was sent to the afterlife immediately after Goku died so his friend's couldn't show it to her as proof. How could she know for sure that Goku was really dead? This may take giant leaps in logic on Chichi's part, but she's in a state of emotional distress. Chichi thinking that her husband faked his death in order to train Gohan must have been much easier to deal with than accepting the truth that her family was taken away from her in one fell swoop.

To be honest, after this moment in the Saiyan arc I don't think that there was ever another example of Chichi truly being a bad wife. Most of the nagging was at least understandable to a certain degree; she just doesn't want her son to get hurt like Goku does. I mean, she saw Goku get a gaping hole shot through him! Of course she doesn't want Gohan to have the same happen! As far as her role as a wife goes, Chichi is really supportive and dearly loves her husband in my eyes. The greatest example would be when she took care of Goku practically by herself when the heart virus took effect; admittedly, it's been a while since I've watched that part, but I don't remember Chichi once leaving Goku's side until he got better. Chichi may not be a perfect wife, but when the story gives her a chance to show how much she loves her husband, she really shows it. Well, save for that moment in the Saiyan arc, that is, but we've talked about that at length already. I would even go as far as to say that the main reason why Chichi was always so lenient when it came to Goten's studying and learning martial arts was because of how much she missed Goku after his second death; I think seeing how similar Goten was to his dad made brought back fond memories of her late husband and as a result she didn't want to discourage Goten from being like him, which is the complete opposite of what she did with Gohan.
There's nothing in canon that shows it's a coping mechanism, and I don't see how that lie is somehow better than the truth.

Part of my problem with Chichi is how she pushes Gohan at four to be a scholar. Ultimately it's where he ends up, but he seemed to have no say in the matter. That bugs me to no end as it's very Tiger Mom.

I'm glad she stood by Goku's side as he was healing from his virus, but I still don't think that shows how much she loves him. I'm happy she lightened up with Goten, but it's a shame she didn't before.
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Re: Why did Toriyama chose Chichi to be Son's wife?

Post by Gaffer Tape » Sat May 31, 2014 7:31 am

kei17 wrote:Why do you call him Son anyway? It's very confusing.
Why does who call him Son? And how is that confusing when several characters refer to him by his surname? It's obvious who is being referred to, even though there are other characters with that surname, because none of them are ever referred to that way, while Goku is.
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Re: Why did Toriyama chose Chichi to be Son's wife?

Post by The Time Traveller » Sat May 31, 2014 7:43 am

kei17 wrote:Why do you call him Son anyway? It's very confusing.
Bulma, Tenshinhan and Piccolo do it, sometimes. I guess it's like how Vegeta calls Goku "Kakarotto", and some fans do too just because.

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Re: Why did Toriyama chose Chichi to be Son's wife?

Post by MediaFanGirl93 » Sat May 31, 2014 7:48 am

ABED wrote:Part of my problem with Chichi is how she pushes Gohan at four to be a scholar. Ultimately it's where he ends up, but he seemed to have no say in the matter. That bugs me to no end as it's very Tiger Mom.

I'm glad she stood by Goku's side as he was healing from his virus, but I still don't think that shows how much she loves him. I'm happy she lightened up with Goten, but it's a shame she didn't before.
I remember reading the manga and Gohan said he wanted to be a great scholar. I also remember reading an interview involving Toriyama and even he said that Gohan would rather study than fight. While Chi-Chi is a school mom, I really don't think she's as forceful in the manga, unlike the anime which in my opinion, makes it look like she's forcing Gohan to study.

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Re: Why did Toriyama chose Chichi to be Son's wife?

Post by ABED » Sat May 31, 2014 7:52 am

MediaFanGirl93 wrote:
ABED wrote:Part of my problem with Chichi is how she pushes Gohan at four to be a scholar. Ultimately it's where he ends up, but he seemed to have no say in the matter. That bugs me to no end as it's very Tiger Mom.

I'm glad she stood by Goku's side as he was healing from his virus, but I still don't think that shows how much she loves him. I'm happy she lightened up with Goten, but it's a shame she didn't before.
I remember reading the manga and Gohan said he wanted to be a great scholar. I also remember reading an interview involving Toriyama and even he said that Gohan would rather study than fight. While Chi-Chi is a school mom, I really don't think she's as forceful in the manga, unlike the anime which in my opinion, makes it look like she's forcing Gohan to study.
If that's how Toriyama wrote it, fine, but how many four year olds like to study, much less want to make that their occupation? At that age, I'm not buying it, this seems like something Chichi wanted, and Gohan grew to accept.

I get that Gohan would rather study than fight, but that doesn't necessarily means he wants to study, just that between the two alternatives, it's what he'd rather do.
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Re: Why did Toriyama chose Chichi to be Son's wife?

Post by SingleFringe&Sparks » Sat May 31, 2014 1:57 pm

ABED wrote:I like chichi before the Saiyan arc and towards the end of the Cell arc when she begins lightening up. I understand being protective, but she goes too far. However, I don't harbor hatred because she's fictional and it's exaggerated for comedic effect.
Whats going too far? Is allowing your son to be kidnapped by aliens and forced to fight them not too far for Goku?
Zephyr wrote:The fandom's collective fetishizing of "moments" is also ridiculous to me. No, not everyone needs a fucking "shine" moment. If that's all you want, then all you want is fanservice, rather than an actual coherent story. And of course those aren't mutually exclusive; you could have a coherent story with "shine" moments! But if a story is perfectly coherent (and I'm really not seeing any compelling arguments that this one is anything but, despite constantly recurring, really poorly reasoned, attempts to argue otherwise), and you're bemoaning the lack of "shine" moments as a reason for the story's poor quality, then you're letting your thirst for "shine" moments obfuscate your ability to detect basic storytelling when it's right in front of you.

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Re: Why did Toriyama chose Chichi to be Son's wife?

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Sat May 31, 2014 3:16 pm

ABED wrote:Because most people claim he's a bad father because he has Gohan fight Cell. It's ridiculous, Gohan's the only one that can do it. If Goku was strong enough, he would've done so. In case you are referring to the senzu, that changed nothing about the out come of the fight. If on a scale of 1 to 10, Cell went from 7 back to 10, Gohan was at 20, so Cell getting his full power back didn't matter.
Yes and no. I guess that fans do seem ignorant of the facts and are quick to place the "Goku is a bad father" accusation, but I think it had more to do with the fact that Piccolo showed greater concern for Gohan while Goku's dumbass was too bounded by his stupid 'warrior's pride' even for his only son. And no, Gohan wasn't a last resort generally speaking. Suck up his pride, eat a senzu, and have everyone jump Cell as Trunks said. It's that simple.
Gaffer Tape wrote:I agree with ABED. The two aren't even comparable. While Goku might have made a mistake, he didn't do it willfully. When he did understand what he was putting his son through, he immediately made plans to put an end to it. Chichi just. did. not. care. And this is coming from someone who actually doesn't dislike Chichi because, well, you can't deny fact.
I guess when you put it that but you'd have to admit it does seem pretty ridiculous for Piccolo, of all people, to yell at him in order for him to finally realize his mistake. I only made comparison because those are one-time ocurrances that have questionable consistency between both characters' characterizations. That's like judging a good show off a bad episode (and no I don't think Chi-Chi is a particularly good character).
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DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
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Re: Why did Toriyama chose Chichi to be Son's wife?

Post by Super Sonic » Sat May 31, 2014 3:36 pm

Have to say it was a nice change-up that he was with Chi-Chi rather than Bulma. Usually the male and female leads of a manga/anime series if they're not siblings tend to end up together at the end. That Toriyama didn't go that route is a nice change-up.

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Re: Why did Toriyama chose Chichi to be Son's wife?

Post by ABED » Sat May 31, 2014 5:20 pm

DBZAOTA482 wrote:
ABED wrote:Because most people claim he's a bad father because he has Gohan fight Cell. It's ridiculous, Gohan's the only one that can do it. If Goku was strong enough, he would've done so. In case you are referring to the senzu, that changed nothing about the out come of the fight. If on a scale of 1 to 10, Cell went from 7 back to 10, Gohan was at 20, so Cell getting his full power back didn't matter.
Yes and no. I guess that fans do seem ignorant of the facts and are quick to place the "Goku is a bad father" accusation, but I think it had more to do with the fact that Piccolo showed greater concern for Gohan while Goku's dumbass was too bounded by his stupid 'warrior's pride' even for his only son. And no, Gohan wasn't a last resort generally speaking. Suck up his pride, eat a senzu, and have everyone jump Cell as Trunks said. It's that simple.
Gaffer Tape wrote:I agree with ABED. The two aren't even comparable. While Goku might have made a mistake, he didn't do it willfully. When he did understand what he was putting his son through, he immediately made plans to put an end to it. Chichi just. did. not. care. And this is coming from someone who actually doesn't dislike Chichi because, well, you can't deny fact.
I guess when you put it that but you'd have to admit it does seem pretty ridiculous for Piccolo, of all people, to yell at him in order for him to finally realize his mistake. I only made comparison because those are one-time ocurrances that have questionable consistency between both characters' characterizations. That's like judging a good show off a bad episode (and no I don't think Chi-Chi is a particularly good character).
Goku knew Gohan wasn't in genuine danger. It wasn't warrior's pride, Goku knew something Piccolo and the audience didn't. Recall Goku's reaction when Gohan was in fact in danger, it was concern. The attacking Cell all at once isn't a good strategy, it would be a massacre. Piccolo yelling at Goku doesn't get him to realize his mistake, he didn't make a mistake. At most it made him second guess himself, and everyone's so quick to think Piccolo somehow knew exactly what was going on in Gohan's head.

As for Bulma, I don't see it. I like them as a team, and kinda wished they went back to that sometimes, especially in GT. However, as a romantic couple? No, I don't see it.
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Re: Why did Toriyama chose Chichi to be Son's wife?

Post by MediaFanGirl93 » Sun Jun 01, 2014 2:08 am

Super Sonic wrote:Have to say it was a nice change-up that he was with Chi-Chi rather than Bulma. Usually the male and female leads of a manga/anime series if they're not siblings tend to end up together at the end. That Toriyama didn't go that route is a nice change-up.
This makes sense, but I remember A fan mentioning that Toriyama regrets putting Goku and Chi-Chi together.

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