Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.
GeeRod wrote:Wow...sad to see that we still have this kinda of people here in this forum. Bashes everything and say that the creator is a lazy shit? Can't believe this...
Yeah, me neither. They'll quiet down after they watch the movie and see how epic it is
Anyways. Vegeta with blue hair. Yesss
mogi67 wrote:I kind of view Dragon Ball the same way I view mythology. It can be convoluted, contradictory, but always a treasure.
Suupaa Gohan 2 wrote:Even the Japanese are talking about Toriyama's laziness? Well, I guess that makes sense, given that the laziness is becoming more and more rampant.
Somebody step in for him already, damn.
lord turbo wrote:I use to think the Japanese folks just ate up what ever came out of Toriyama's ass, nice to know they find all the recolors/palette swaps just as lazy and redundant as we do.
Why are you two acting like a couple of posters on 4ch represent the entirety of the Japanese fanbase? That's like thinking a DBZ post on 4chan represents the entire US fanbase.
Last edited by Alpha to Omega on Mon Mar 30, 2015 12:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
ssjjanemba wrote:Akira getting so much hate is so sad....and its on a dragon ball forum.
Yeah, it's extremely unpleasant to me.
Nobody's "hating" on the guy. Or at least, that certainly isn't my intention. We are most definitely expressing opinions about him and his work, which is certainly valid discussion.
Akira Toriyama wrote:If anyone. ANYONE AT TOEI! Makes a movie about old and weak major villains returning, or making recolored versions of Super Saiyan, I'ma come to yo company and evict you from doing Dragon Ball ever again! Only I do those things, because people love me, and they despise you....derp!
Marco Polo wrote:Goku Black is a fan of DBZ who hates Super and has taken the form of a younger Goku (thinner shape, softer hair) to avenge the original series by destroying the new.
ssjjanemba wrote:Akira getting so much hate is so sad....and its on a dragon ball forum.
Yeah, it's extremely unpleasant to me.
Nobody's "hating" on the guy. Or at least, that certainly isn't my intention. We are most definitely expressing opinions about him and his work, which is certainly valid discussion.
Frankly, you've been throwing a fit saying Toriyama needs to lose his series just because Goten wasn't going to play a part in the movie.
That's hardly valid.
Last edited by ShadowWolf87 on Mon Mar 30, 2015 12:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
"I wanted you to see what real courage is, instead of getting the idea that courage is a man with a gun in his hand. It’s when you know you’re licked before you begin but you begin anyway and you see it through no matter what." - Harper Lee, To Kill a Mockingbird (1960)
“I learned that courage was not the absence of fear, but the triumph over it. The brave man is not he who does not feel afraid, but he who conquers that fear.” - Nelson Mandela
Another thing is guys....it's just a form. Yeah it looks dumb, but as long as the story is good I can take a Shiny Freeza and Bloku/Blugeta.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Akira Toriyama wrote:If anyone. ANYONE AT TOEI! Makes a movie about old and weak major villains returning, or making recolored versions of Super Saiyan, I'ma come to yo company and evict you from doing Dragon Ball ever again! Only I do those things, because people love me, and they despise you....derp!
Marco Polo wrote:Goku Black is a fan of DBZ who hates Super and has taken the form of a younger Goku (thinner shape, softer hair) to avenge the original series by destroying the new.
Don't think I've commented yet on this thread but I do agree with a lot of the dislike about the transformations so far. I wasn't a huge fan of BOG and thought Goku's God form could've used a bit more variation from his base but after catching up with the newer trailer this seems just awful. Seeing someone come back more powerful than ever, someone who transformed each time to show more of their power. If Freeza actually trained and resulted with some gold instead of white as the new transformation/power-up that is extremely underwhelming/lazy. One of my favorite things about Dragon Ball is the different transformations/outfit designs. Even Beerus was a different design, mind you i don't like how bony he is but "God Ki" so it's fine and is a fresh new design. Imagine cell absorbing c18 and being exactly the same except yellow. That wouldn't be acceptable then and it shouldn't be now.
What happens in the third movie? Does the hair turn lime green? Are Saiyans just a rainbow palette of hair colors to transform into? As the lesser of two evils I hope it is just Vegeta who gets bright blue hair even though it still throws me off at least it would be a "God power" and maybe the hair is based on the person. I feel like it would make more sense than every Saiyan having the standard ssj1-3 yellow + God1 Red, God2 Cotton candy blue, God3 lime green, God4 hot pink etc.
Chuquita wrote:I understand, but I still didn't see this coming. I really, really never saw it coming. I thought it'd be ONLY Vegeta IF anyone at all. I expected Toriyama's "no more flashy transformations" to mean no more transformations at all. That's what I was originally afraid of. Bleh, this is worse. T_T
Does he have a quote on this? I'm reading up but I am very behind on interviews, can you/anyone let me know when he said this?
As it stands, I don't find the simplicity of this design comparable to Super Saiyan God's or Golden Freeza's, so the notion that people are hypocrites for liking those but not this is a bit baffling to me. Super Saiyan God's simplicity worked because it undermined the deific nature of the title. Golden Freeza works given its application of regal colours, as well as providing the character with his own direct parallel to the Super Saiyan, a design which itself boiled down to "the same as before, but gold".
As it stands there's nothing thematically interesting about Goku with blue hair. If this IS meant to be Toriyama turning around and making Super Saiyan God an earnest transformation line as opposed to a deconstruction of the concept, with this as an upgrade of the form, then fine... but I feel the blue is too garish on Goku, while there was nothing wrong with the existing majenta colour scheme. On Vegeta? Looks fine, if a touch bright. On Goku? Less so.
Of course as it stands this is all based on one photo of a pair of small plastic toys, and may not be entirely reflexive of how the form'll look in the film. Maybe it'll work, maybe it won't. Maybe the blue bares some genuinely interesting thematic significance, maybe it's just superfluous. Who knows? Not me. Haven't seen the film, after all.
ssjjanemba wrote:Akira getting so much hate is so sad....and its on a dragon ball forum.
Yeah, it's extremely unpleasant to me.
Also, picking up a random anonymous post on 2ch doesn't mean anything. It's nothing but just a graffiti in the wall of a lavatory.
Agreed. I'm off to the preview in just a few hours, and nothing sours my mood so much as having to deal with this kind of negativity (to say nothing of immaturity). Even if you have something to criticize, you can do it in a considerate and constructive fashion without resorting to hyperbole or petty name calling.
This hardly goes for everyone, of course, but some of the posts I've been seeing are also (perhaps deliberately) skirting the edges of homophobia and/or racism, which is entirely disgusting and has no place in this community. It reflects poorly on all of us. If that's how you (that's "you" in the general sense, not Kei) want to operate, then I kindly suggest you find somewhere else to do so before we show you the door.
Please — and I say this for everyone's benefit — don't make the last thing I do before I leave the house this afternoon be handing out account strikes.
Co-translator, Man-in-Japan, and Julian #1 at Kanzenshuu
最近、あんまし投稿してないねんけど、見てんで。いっつも見てる。
First there was the Freeza getting resurrected complaints, then the Freeza training complaints, Golden Freeza, possibility that Goten and Trunks won't be in the movie, and now it's this uncomfirmed blue ssj thing. People love hating. All the voice actors and even his editors praised the script for the movie saying it was really cool and fun and everyone here who hasn't seen shit except for a few screenshots and trailers are acting like the movie sucks already. Please wait until tomorrow or when you see the movie and then say if you think it sucks or not. Now that being said I think this new blue ssj is the worst looking transformation if it's real but I'm still hyped for the movie regardless.
Akira Toriyama wrote:If anyone. ANYONE AT TOEI! Makes a movie about old and weak major villains returning, or making recolored versions of Super Saiyan, I'ma come to yo company and evict you from doing Dragon Ball ever again! Only I do those things, because people love me, and they despise you....derp!
Marco Polo wrote:Goku Black is a fan of DBZ who hates Super and has taken the form of a younger Goku (thinner shape, softer hair) to avenge the original series by destroying the new.
kei17 wrote:I don't consider yelling just lazy lazy lazy as a valid discussion. That's what I call being lazy.
This so much.
Besides, Toriyama doesn't choose the forms to look like this because he's lazy. He does it because people are expecting this cool, bad-ass, elaborate transformation and he's all about turning expectations upside-down. Choosing simplicity/elegance over something extremely detailed without substance is an artistic choice, not laziness. Would you call the design of the iPhone lazy because it doesn't have a bunch of patterns and buttons?
Suupaa Gohan 2 wrote:
Nobody's "hating" on the guy. Or at least, that certainly isn't my intention. We are most definitely expressing opinions about him and his work, which is certainly valid discussion.
Suupaa Gohan 2 wrote:Nice to know that lazy shit is being recognized as lazy shit even in the motherland.
I'm all for differing opinions, and despite my own stand on this stuff I certainly understand why people dislike recent stuff. But, holy shit...damn near every post I've seen from you (at least in this thread) is just constant bitching at or about Toriyama. You may not be the only one, but a large majority of your posts are like that. And I'm just completely baffled at how incredibly disrespectful some of you are towards the man who created this series that we're all here for. And if you have such a huge disdain for him and the things he's been doing...then I have to ask (like others have before)...just what the hell are you even doing here? Are you trying to troll people? Do you get off on the anger and disappointment you've been getting from all of this? What do you honestly have to gain from coming here and posting the negative shit you've been posting? If you don't like it, then why even waste your time? Why waste our time?
Holy shit.
Besides, Toriyama doesn't choose the forms to look like this because he's lazy. He does it because people are expecting this cool, bad-ass, elaborate transformation and he's all about turning expectations upside-down. Choosing simplicity/elegance over something extremely detailed without substance is an artistic choice, not laziness. Would you call the design of the iPhone lazy because it doesn't have a bunch of patterns and buttons?
Pretty much.
Rocketman(In response to a post about Pandora's Box) wrote:
I sat here for ten damn minutes wondering what the hell God of War had to do with any of this.
Insertclevername wrote:I plan to lose my virginity to Dragon Box 2.
ssjjanemba wrote:Akira getting so much hate is so sad....and its on a dragon ball forum.
Yeah, it's extremely unpleasant to me.
Also, picking up a random anonymous post on 2ch doesn't mean anything. It's nothing but just a graffiti in the wall of a lavatory.
Agreed. I'm off to the preview in just a few hours, and nothing sours my mood so much as having to deal with this kind of negativity (to say nothing of immaturity). Even if you have something to criticize, you can do it in a considerate and constructive fashion without resorting to hyperbole or petty name calling.
This hardly goes for everyone, of course, but some of the posts I've been seeing are also (perhaps deliberately) skirting the edges of homophobia and/or racism, which is entirely disgusting and has no place in this community. It reflects poorly on all of us. If that's how you (that's "you" in the general sense, not Kei) want to operate, then I kindly suggest you find somewhere else to do so before we show you the door.
Please — and I say this for everyone's benefit — don't make the last thing I do before I leave the house this afternoon be handing out account strikes.
Good luck. Don't mind the haters. Have a great time.
Check out Journey's End, a short story of Goku and Vegeta's final days. "Time is running out for the last two Saiyans"
ssjjanemba wrote:Akira getting so much hate is so sad....and its on a dragon ball forum.
Yeah since Toriyama return back to the series after many years and fans just love to bash him now. A decade ago, fans where crying to come back after GT sucking and most of the old DBZ movies sucking too. We have him return to the series and you have fans want him to die and never come back. Sometimes I do think DBZ fans are always unhappy with everything.
