Broli: A Character Discussion in Fandom Context

[Eire]

I oddly think he's adorable in base form

I think you are not alone
When I think about it, you really nailed the problem with 8th movie- history about family revenge would be A-OK, but no, there must be forced Goku-Placement.

[SaiyanZ]

He was a good character in M8, I specifically like his past with Paragus as it kind of paints him in a tragic light since his power drove him mad, Paragus was forced to mind control him, etc (he seemed very docile despite being a Saiyan given his soft spoken manner when we first see him introduced to Vegeta). The whole Goku crying thing can maybe be justified as a twisted version of the real-life Little Albert experiment. In M10, I'm pretty sure he only says "Kakarotto" until the end before he fires his green ultimate attack at Gohan's Kamehameha (its some line about how he'll kill him iirc). M11...goopy mofo....beaten by water...yeah, no. In short, a good enough character that became worse in each subsequent movie sequel imo.

[caejones]

It's impressive how this topic was started with the expectation that it would be controvercial and require people to curb their tempers... then everyone has pretty much the exact same opinions.

About Broli's psychosis: an idea floating around a few years back (I think it originated with Xyex?) is that Broli is not crazy because of Goku's crying. He's crazy because he's (1) a mutant, (2) had a murder attempt made against him as a baby, (3) had an entire planet explode around him, after which he (4) had to somehow protect himself and his father in the vacuum of space long enough to reach an atmosphere (how even...). Goku is just the only thing he remembers from before his life went to Hell, so seeing him triggers his SSJ PTSD.

It strikes me as plausible, shores up the major flaw in Movie 8's characterization, and is exactly the overly serious over analysis that makes the internet fun. So I approve.

... Then agree with the consensus that Broli oversaturation happened far too quickly and aaargh movie 8 is clearly set during Goku and Gohan's time in the RoSaT why do we keep inflating him?

The movie could have been "Goten and Trunks vs the Massive Mud Monster from Mars," and hardly anything would have to be changed.

If it had been literally that, all the problems would have been solved! Where's the main cast? On Earth! The setting's too generic? Not on Mars! Not enough water to melt the monster? Mars has polar icecaps! And we could watch Krillin try to melt some and get a dry ice burn because he hit the wrong chunks!
(OK, so maybe this doesn't explain how Krillin is not a statue. But whatever. I now want to see Goten and Trunks goofing around on Mars with Mr. Satan.)

[SingleFringe&Sparks]

Good:
- Design. His clothing is very well done. His base form is actually my favoured one. Where he looks like he could be a slave character from Star wars, or an Arabian Prince with Paragus sharing a similar motif. Very non generic.

- Broly is the most entertaining character to watch fight. No gimmicks, Transforms to max straight off the bat, no long ego speeches or stalling the way the canon villains did a lot. He was also not as time-wasting as Buu who just seemed OP for the sake of it. Broly was at least at the stature to be stronger than the other SSJs.

- His LSSJ form has its own unique conditons, abilities and weaknesses, something none of the other forms have. His ki is also very exclusive to him. It has its own sound effects unused by any other character, and he has that constant shield thing.

- He is a very dark character from his father's perspective. A mental-disorder controls him above all else. This though was underelaborated.

- Broly Fanboys and Haters in parallel are extremely arrogant for no productive reason.



Bad:
- His personal backstory was never fully developed at all. I could easily make up a substitute but it wouldnt change what is given. Nothing to really respect. His feelings for Goku is unclear, Goku has no personal connection to him beyond being the same age, and the writers just ditched it. What about that makes him so connected to Goku?

- His personality is even worse than Buu's. He's like Superbuu with Kid Buu's brain. 1Dimentional and literally nothing about him as a character means anything. Hes just the personafication of Goku haters of OC fanfic. - Hates Goku for no reason, God-sue among all other characters. He's a wasted character much like Cooler. Though I personally cant stand Buu more so than Broly. Broly as he is, is just so terrible. I hate villains with no motivations outside just destroying stuff for fun.

- His overhype. His popularity doesnt come from anything logical. Hes just a high for kids that like the thought of OP berserk characters. And all his additional SSJ forms are just stupid. He didnt need a SSJ3 or a SSJ4, they're all basically the same thing for him in the end. Unless he had a 100x Omega Blaster, its just Fanfic wank. Not to mention how he of all people could even get a SSJ4 form doesnt make sense to me. If you need inner calmness to control the Super Ozaru how would broly ever fit that build? Most likely he would destroy himself as a low class Legendary Oozaru.

- Fans and Toei using his Legendary form as the basis for SSJGod/SSJ4. It doesnt work like that as far as I know. SSJGod puts you at your strongest in the lightest and most efficent way possible at the basics of your frame. Why would he be a "Legendary SSJG"? I really don't think there isthat kind of a variation to God Ki.

- Broly being paired up with Vegitto in Fanfic. Seriously, Broly isnt that strong nor is he that interesting that he needed to be rehashed the same way over and over again. His character has nothing to build on in that way hes presented.

- Movie 10. I thought it was really dumb that Gohan was the only one besides Krillin that knew Broly was there let alone being the only one to face him. The movie would have been a lot better if it was Vegeta, SSJ1 Gotenks, Piccolo and Gohan fighting Broly if he really had to come back. Better yet, just Vegeta vs Broly. Would have been enough. Final Flash him into the sun and Vegeta gets his cred.

Personal Disapointments:
Broly should not have been the main antagonist or at least the focus of Movie 8. He should have just been the feature. The story of the movie was so much better when it was centered around Paragus and the history of the saiyans being shrowded in conspiracy Vegeta had no idea of. Paragus wanted revenge for king Vegeta betraying them, Vegeta saw his dream turn on him into a nightmare, Paragus hates the prince and thought Broly was better suited being far far stronger than King Vegeta... if elabourated it could have been made out to suggest that Vegeta's very authority was a lie based on King Vegeta not wanting to be rivalled by a child outside his bloodline surpassing him, or that Vegeta himself isnt special at all but only a prince because his father was corrupt and selfish. But Paragus realizing the worst of Broly being uncontrollable being a threat to himself, wanted broly to die as well and free him from the stress and patience he endured with him. If they had made it stay about Paragus vs Vegeta for the crown using Broly as a proxy for their own bloodline, and Vegeta having to decide for himself his own worth if he isnt at all special... that could have been a hell of a good story.

Instead Toei lost it when it became all about Broly hating Goku for no given explaination but the crying element. Smh.

[hleV]

I don't mind Broli that much. Back in the day I liked how they went with a "true" legendary SS, seeing how the "normal" SS was not that special in the end. He was great in M8. And the jewelry affecting his base/LSS hair color? Neat stuff. M10? Well we get to see his jewelry-less SS and normal-hair-color LSS forms. Other than that, only M11 is worse.

Him or anyone else receiving new transformations outside of the respective media they come from doesn't really concern me. It didn't actually happen. It's a what-if. An "official" fanart/fanfic of sorts. Many were dying for an "AF" series. This is as close to that as it gets.

[Low Tone G]

I don't like his design for some reason, even if he was invented by Toriyama himself. His personality it's nothing special at all, he is dumb. I would like him better if he was something special like he had some mutated traits and that's why he is so strong not because of the legend, it lacks logic. It was revealed by Toriyama that King Kold and Frieza were mutants, so it would make more sense if Broly has somehow encountered some mutation accidentally, Goku used to be the Legendary Super Saiyan before him. I like better the Saiyan God's Legend because it has some logic regarding how it can be reached. Broly did nothing for it.

[Kid Buu]

He was alright but over-saturated, although I do like how the supporting characters were utilized in his later films. I don't like him as much as Vegeta and Buu, but I do like him more than Freeza and Perfect Cell.

[rereboy]

an idea floating around a few years back (I think it originated with Xyex?) is that Broli is not crazy because of Goku's crying.

This idea that he is crazy because Goku cried has always been ridiculous. He's crazy because his power drove him crazy, which is why he's not crazy in his normal state but he immediately goes crazy when his power goes up.

Him reacting to Goku's crying and him recognizing Goku later is simply Broly recognizing a true saiyan rival who was born on the same day as he (on the same exact day that the legendary super saying is born) and that has the ability within him to affect him, even if he has less power. He instinctively knows him for a rival and he instinctively is driven to crush him, as his power will not admit any rivals that might affect him.

And, as we saw later, this instinct was well justified since, even though Goku on his own was weaker, he still managed to find a way to defeat Broly.

This subtlety and other things make movie 8 a pretty good DBZ movie, with a cool story, cool setting, cool characters, cool humor, and yes, a cool villain, since he was pretty different than the ones before and he symbolized that pure mad warrior rage and overwhelming power that most of us had imagined for the Super Saiyan when it was being teased in the story. The fighting itself was not very good, it was pretty one tone, but it was fitting for the feeling of overwhelming power of the villain. So, overall, movie 8 was pretty good.

But in the other two movies Broly sucked because he was not interesting enough (fighting wise and personality wise) for me to welcome a comeback.

[Dbzk1999]

an idea floating around a few years back (I think it originated with Xyex?) is that Broli is not crazy because of Goku's crying.

But in the other two movies Broly sucked because he was not interesting enough (fighting wise and personality wise) for me to welcome a comeback.

Bio broly I understand, but movie 10, fighting wise, broly shows his actual skill (against gohan) in his ssj form

[rereboy]

an idea floating around a few years back (I think it originated with Xyex?) is that Broli is not crazy because of Goku's crying.

But in the other two movies Broly sucked because he was not interesting enough (fighting wise and personality wise) for me to welcome a comeback.

Bio broly I understand, but movie 10, fighting wise, broly shows his actual skill (against gohan) in his ssj form

Not really. Just the basic shrugging off attacks and doing big strong-looking moves and green Ki blasts that characterizes him.

[ImmaDeker]

This subtlety

We're grading on a curve, right?

Genuine question.

[rereboy]

This subtlety

We're grading on a curve, right?

Genuine question.

Dragon Ball movies basically have no subtlety or stuff that requires some interpretation. Movie 8 actually has some regarding its story and the relationship between Broly and Goku. In fact, the complete lack of stuff like that in Dragon Ball movies must be why so many fans actually believe that Broly went mad due to Goku crying (ridiculous...), instead of interpreting the scenes.

[Cetra]

I see no problem with the crying. We see Broly annoyed by Goku crying and later Goten.

[rereboy]

I see no problem with the crying. We see Broly annoyed by Goku crying and later Goten.

Goku's crying bothers Broly instinctively because he instinctively recognizes Goku as a rival and the crying also serves as a metaphor for Goku's ability to affect Broly even when he is so much weaker than Broly.

That's why the movie goes out of its way to show us again the scene of baby Goku crying and bothering baby Broly as Goku is delivering the winning blow to Broly.

Its the movie's way of telling us "look, Broly was right in instinctively recognizing Goku as a rival and being compelled to crush him and being bothered by his presence! Despite the power difference, Goku still managed to find a way to affect him, just like his crying as a baby bothered a much stronger baby Broly, and defeat him!".

As such, there's no problem with the crying, its just that there's more to it than just bothering Broly or being the cause for Broly's madness (ridiculous...).

Furthermore, the fact that they were born on the same day, the day that the LSSJ was born, further interlocks their fated rivalry and connection.

As for Goten, its simply because he reminds him of Goku.

[ImmaDeker]

This subtlety

We're grading on a curve, right?

Genuine question.

Dragon Ball movies basically have no subtlety or stuff that requires some interpretation. Movie 8 actually has some regarding its story and the relationship between Broly and Goku. In fact, the complete lack of stuff like that in Dragon Ball movies must be why so many fans actually believe that Broly went mad due to Goku crying (ridiculous...), instead of interpreting the scenes.

So...that's a yes?

[rereboy]

So...that's a yes?

Depends on what you mean by "grading on a curve". I was perfectly clear on what I meant.

[ImmaDeker]

I mean "subtle compared to the things around it" rather than any genuine artistry or subtlety.

[rereboy]

I mean "subtle compared to the things around it" rather than any genuine artistry or subtlety.

There's no "genuine" subtlety, there's only a range of subtlety, going from just a little to a lot. Movie 8 has some subtlety which especially stands out because Dragon Ball movies have none.

[ImmaDeker]

Broly is arguably stupid because his story is more grandiose in presentation but not really any more or less meaningful than any other random Z villain. He's overindulgence to express the same basic idea as any other character.

It makes his "subtlety" annoying and stupid.

[Low Tone G]

In my book the most boring anime-only characters are:

1. Super Android 13
2. Broly
3. Bojack


The most boring movie story:

Super Android 13