Anyone else think Vegeta was too easily forgiven by the end?

WittyUsername · Post by **WittyUsername** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 4:57 pm

Considering that Vegeta spent maybe the first 30 or so years of his life as a homicidal space pirate that probably wiped out who knows how many innocent beings throughout the Universe, it seems a bit unsettling that by the end of the series, he was more or less accepted as a friend to Goku and the others, and he even was able to settle down and have a family. Anyone else think when all is said and done, Vegeta got off a bit too easy?

I mean sure, he died twice over the course of the series, and his homicidal traits seemed to have pretty much vanished by the end, but still. I don't think I even recall him showing the slightest bit of remorse over the possible billions of beings that he was responsible for killing at any point in the manga, or the anime.

Marco Polo · Post by **Marco Polo** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 5:33 pm

Tenshinhan agrees with you as he never forgave him.

LordCrumb · Post by **LordCrumb** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 5:49 pm

I don't know about the Japanese dialog, but in the English version during the Boo saga, he made sure the wish to bring people back to life included those he killed at the Tournament.

But yeah I can see where you're coming from, he was an incredibly evil person who killed without remorse while under the watch of Freeza.

Cure Dragon 255 · Post by **Cure Dragon 255** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 5:56 pm

Those people already died once and thus cannot be brought back.

...OUR HERO!

Fionordequester · Post by **Fionordequester** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 7:07 pm

Eh, I don't see any point in letting his past deeds define who he is in the present. There's no changing the past, and, frankly, the person he is today isn't the person he was, so in a way, that "homicidal pirate" has already been killed.

ABED · Post by **ABED** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 7:26 pm

Fionordequester wrote:Eh, I don't see any point in letting his past deeds define who he is in the present. There's no changing the past, and, frankly, the person he is today isn't the person he was, so in a way, that "homicidal pirate" has already been killed.

Who we are in the present is defined by our actions, including the past. How can you possibly dismiss that? The person that came back from the dead wasn't a brand new being. True justice would be for Vegeta to go to Hell, literally, after Buu was defeated. It's poetic justice given that he's largely responsible for Buu's resurrection.

fadeddreams5 · Post by **fadeddreams5** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 7:42 pm

It'd be easy to dismiss his past deeds if he had changed by, say, the Android/Cell saga, but he was still a dick until the very end. All of a sudden he wants to play hero by sacrificing himself when it was him who essentially let Buu loose and indirectly killed billions as a result.

LordCrumb · Post by **LordCrumb** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 7:45 pm

Are people forgetting it takes two people to fight? Goku was just as responsible for the hatching of Boo as Vegeta. Goku could have taken out Fat Boo too, but didn't. Vegeta atleast was fighting to kill him.

shinmaru · Post by **shinmaru** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 7:46 pm

WittyUsername wrote:Considering that Vegeta spent maybe the first 30 or so years of his life as a homicidal space pirate that probably wiped out who knows how many innocent beings throughout the Universe, it seems a bit unsettling that by the end of the series, he was more or less accepted as a friend to Goku and the others, and he even was able to settle down and have a family. Anyone else think when all is said and done, Vegeta got off a bit too easy?

I mean sure, he died twice over the course of the series, and his homicidal traits seemed to have pretty much vanished by the end, but still. I don't think I even recall him showing the slightest bit of remorse over the possible billions of beings that he was responsible for killing at any point in the manga, or the anime.

In the end, he is more help than a threat
even before the end of Z he is more a helpful character than a threat.
So no I don't think Bejita was forgiven easily because most of the time he didn't have much to say, and knows his place in the league. Goku And Piccolo deftly surpassed and cracked his pride before, So he didn't have much to say.

ShaneisMC · Post by **ShaneisMC** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 7:47 pm

ABED wrote:
Fionordequester wrote:Eh, I don't see any point in letting his past deeds define who he is in the present. There's no changing the past, and, frankly, the person he is today isn't the person he was, so in a way, that "homicidal pirate" has already been killed.
Who we are in the present is defined by our actions, including the past. How can you possibly dismiss that? The person that came back from the dead wasn't a brand new being. True justice would be for Vegeta to go to Hell, literally, after Buu was defeated. It's poetic justice given that he's largely responsible for Buu's resurrection.

its not that its simply dismissed, but having a view like that of Goku's. No one is inherently evil. Only actions are. While Vegeta most certainly was pushed and raised by his culture and upbringing to commit many awful atrocities for a good portion of his life, when he met Goku his personality instantly began to change as he was influenced by the purity of Goku's character and allowed him to grow and truly learn the meaning of inner peace and self acceptance. Goku saw through the evil background and persona as he sees through all of his enemies. Goku always tries to be fair and merciful to all of his enemies because he realizes that it truly is never too late to change and that no one is beyond redemption. And while it took the entire series of him making mistake after mistake, kicking and screaming, he finally did truly repent in his heart. So its like the other guy said, the evil man responsible for mass murder at last was vanquished. I think the karma of the constant hell he endured and carried within himself until that point and the 2 real deaths he suffered were plenty sufficient punishment.

fadeddreams5 · Post by **fadeddreams5** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 7:51 pm

LordCrumb wrote:Are people forgetting it takes two people to fight? Goku was just as responsible for the hatching of Boo as Vegeta. Goku could have taken out Fat Boo too, but didn't. Vegeta atleast was fighting to kill him.

Vegeta is the one who initiated the fight with Goku. It was senseless, and he picked the worst time to engage in it. He knew damn well what the consequences of playing to Babidi's games were. Goku, on the other hand, was only psychologically forced into it when he started killing innocent people.

And before SSJ3 is brought up, there was no way he was going to sacrifice his time on Earth to beat Vegeta with that form when he felt he could win without it.

For the record, I agree that Goku did A LOT of stupid things in this saga. He's not off the hook either.

ABED · Post by **ABED** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 7:52 pm

Are people forgetting it takes two people to fight? Goku was just as responsible for the hatching of Boo as Vegeta. Goku could have taken out Fat Boo too, but didn't. Vegeta atleast was fighting to kill him.

I know many don't like this line of thought, but Toriyama doesn't think ahead. When he was writing the Vegeta fight, he probably had yet to think up SS3. When he got to SS3, he didn't think Goku would come back and be the hero again, so to him Goku was fighting Buu at his best. It's only through a retcon that we get Goku helping let Buu loose. However, that doesn't stick well with me since when has Goku ever let a bad guy go without intending to fight them again?

But as mentioned above, Vegeta was the one that instigated the fight. He allowed Babidi to imbue him with the evil power.

No one is inherently evil. Only actions are.

We are our actions. Inherently evil is a contradiction. Evil implies choice. Vegeta chose to murder people, including children.

Goku saw through the evil background and persona as he sees through all of his enemies. Goku always tries to be fair and merciful to all of his enemies because he realizes that it truly is never too late to change and that no one is beyond redemption. And while it took the entire series of him making mistake after mistake, kicking and screaming, he finally did truly repent in his heart. So its like the other guy said, the evil man responsible for mass murder at last was vanquished. I think the karma of the constant hell he endured and carried within himself until that point and the 2 real deaths he suffered were plenty sufficient punishment.

Goku let him go because he wanted to fight a strong opponent, not out of mercy. 2 deaths is getting off light. He did WAY worse to people. A truly repentant man would recognize their bad deed and be willing to pay the consequences. What constant hell are you referring to? He was never conflicted over the lives he took. He was a psychopath. The hell he put himself thought was due to his insecure, macho BS.

Cure Dragon 255 · Post by **Cure Dragon 255** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 8:01 pm

The Draco In Leather Pants is strong in this thread.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 8:08 pm

If it makes you feel any better, he's still going to Hell when he dies.

Cure Dragon 255 · Post by **Cure Dragon 255** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 8:09 pm

I love you.

WittyUsername · Post by **WittyUsername** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 8:21 pm

Rocketman wrote:If it makes you feel any better, he's still going to Hell when he dies.

I'm not sure about that. Porunga apparently considered Vegeta a good guy, and it seems like Toriyama wanted to suggest that Vegeta being willing to put his grudge against Goku behind him was the ultimate sign of his redemption.

shinmaru · Post by **shinmaru** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 8:24 pm

ABED wrote:. He allowed Babidi to imbue him with the evil power.

No one is inherently evil. Only actions are.
We are our actions. Inherently evil is a contradiction. Evil implies choice. Vegeta chose to murder people, including children.

I think Bejita was a broken child living under suppression he didn't know better
His character/evilness is not like other foes. He was like that because the way he lived his life, Goku made him realize that he can change his ways. Anime creators like Toriyama base most characters of real life.

Cure Dragon 255 · Post by **Cure Dragon 255** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 8:30 pm

God the post above mine. GOD.

Just...

"Bejita" isnt some innocent little flower. Even in his death bed , he never regretted what he did or even make any excuses for it. It would be more understandable if you were talking about the dub which DID try to Romanticize and Rationalize what he did. But no, you explicitly said "Bejita" so there's no doubt you are talking about the Japanese Version.

How can ANYONE be this WRONG?

God!

fadeddreams5 · Post by **fadeddreams5** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 8:38 pm

Sad thing is, if Vegeta died now in Toriyama's new stories, not only would he not go to hell, but he'd probably also keep his body.

Storm101 · Post by **Storm101** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 8:49 pm

What do you want to happen to him? He is pretty much a good guy permanently now, punishing him now would serve no purpose. It would be really hard on his family too if he didn't end up in the afterlife with them. I'm fine with him keeping his body too, if only because Goku would love an eternal sparring partner like him and he's always available if anything bad happens.

Kanzenshuu

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