What is the lamest thing to come out of modern DBZ?

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Re: What is the lamest thing to come out of modern DBZ?

Post by Noah » Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:29 am

Basaku wrote: Except that core story/events/characters from Super (both anime and manga) are treated and created as fully canon by Toriyama, Toei, Bandai, Toyatoro, Shueisha and majority of the fanbase. Good luck going 'la la la' on that for many years to come. This ain't GT which you can totally act like it doesn't exist (just like Toriyama does, and even Toei/Bandai when they don't particularly need a few more video game character designs to fill in).
No, they aren't. No matter how you want to force that, but there's no official continuity ever stated in this franchise from any of its right owners, so Super along with GT are animated sequels only. None of the events of these series where present in the original 42 volumes of the Dragon Ball manga.
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Re: What is the lamest thing to come out of modern DBZ?

Post by perucho1990 » Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:07 am

With all respect but it has to be Post BoG movie Akira Toriyama, his latest interview proves that he is really in a mentally bad shape, the fact Roshi got more focused than 50% of U7 is a big example of that.

In 2017, the likes of Tite Kubo and Hiro Mashima would be an upgrade for writing the outlines, at least we couldve gotten a better antagonist than Jiren.

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Re: What is the lamest thing to come out of modern DBZ?

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:48 am

He's in "mentally bad shape" because you don't like how his story is going?

What the fuck is wrong with you people?
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Re: What is the lamest thing to come out of modern DBZ?

Post by Basaku » Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:48 am

Noah wrote:
Basaku wrote: Except that core story/events/characters from Super (both anime and manga) are treated and created as fully canon by Toriyama, Toei, Bandai, Toyatoro, Shueisha and majority of the fanbase. Good luck going 'la la la' on that for many years to come. This ain't GT which you can totally act like it doesn't exist (just like Toriyama does, and even Toei/Bandai when they don't particularly need a few more video game character designs to fill in).
No, they aren't. No matter how you want to force that, but there's no official continuity ever stated in this franchise from any of its right owners, so Super along with GT are animated sequels only. None of the events of these series where present in the original 42 volumes of the Dragon Ball manga.
Yes they are. It doesn't matter that there's no official timeline detailing every event on website/printed guide book. Core Super story content IS treated AND advertized by Toei and other companies as the official sequel to DBZ, Toriyama says it himself that he treats these events as core story continuation of his manga etc etc.

Saying there's no difference between the treatement of core Super story content by the companies and creators involved compared to GT is just delusional sorry, regardless if there is a heavily detailed official timeline & continuity or not. You're basically grapsing at the lack of official detailed chart to disregard different approach Toei & Toriyama took when it comes to Super story content versus GT/past-movies.

Can this change in the future? Of course, heck,Toriyama may one day wake up and decide to reboot EVERYTHING and remove 42 volumes from canon. But that's hypothetical, we're talking present time.

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Re: What is the lamest thing to come out of modern DBZ?

Post by sintzu » Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:38 pm

Basaku wrote:
sintzu wrote: It doesn't matter what the officials see it as, we can take what we like from the franchise and leave out what we don't. That's exactly what you're doing with gt.
It's not, there's an obvious disparity between Toriyama/Toei's treatement of GT and DBZ/Super.
That's because Super is ongoing so of course it's going to get more attention. When it comes to everything else like merchandise, GT gets just as much attention, more so than the original DB.
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Re: What is the lamest thing to come out of modern DBZ?

Post by Noah » Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:22 pm

Basaku wrote:Yes they are. It doesn't matter that there's no official timeline detailing every event on website/printed guide book. Core Super story content IS treated AND advertized by Toei and other companies as the official sequel to DBZ, Toriyama says it himself that he treats these events as core story continuation of his manga etc etc.

Saying there's no difference between the treatement of core Super story content by the companies and creators involved compared to GT is just delusional sorry, regardless if there is a heavily detailed official timeline & continuity or not. You're basically grapsing at the lack of official detailed chart to disregard different approach Toei & Toriyama took when it comes to Super story content versus GT/past-movies.

Can this change in the future? Of course, heck,Toriyama may one day wake up and decide to reboot EVERYTHING and remove 42 volumes from canon. But that's hypothetical, we're talking present time.
You can say that to yourself, but not to facts. No entity owner of Dragon Ball rights has ever stated the official continuity of the franchise, probably because that could affect the merchadising in some way. GT was also meant to be official sequel of Dragon Ball Z but anime only just like Super is. There's also no statement that the latter existence denies that GT happened anyway, either if some could assume it was a alternate reality or something else.

The only difference between GT and Super is Toriyama involvement, that's all. We can't even measure how much is due differences between anime and manga, we know that he writes vague outlines that could be interpreted in anyway from both Toyotaro and Toei.

Z movies and GT are also official licensed products based on a weekly manga that ended 22 years ago that had no continuation, what came next were animated sequels, movies, specials and a promotional monthly manga.
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Re: What is the lamest thing to come out of modern DBZ?

Post by perucho1990 » Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:00 pm

Kamiccolo9 wrote:He's in "mentally bad shape" because you don't like how his story is going?

What the fuck is wrong with you people?
That Toriyama is the main reason why the ToP couldve been a better arc? Even Toyotaro had to fix some of Toris mistakes, for a good reason some people believe that Z was good because the editors were keeping him in check.

Toriyama is a legend yes, but so was Vince McMahon in the wrestling world...

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Re: What is the lamest thing to come out of modern DBZ?

Post by Puaru » Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:06 pm

The lamest thing to come out of modern Dragon Ball is definitely Gohan. I feel like I wanna go inside the Dragon Ball universe and kick his weak ass and yell at him for being so goddamn lame.

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Re: What is the lamest thing to come out of modern DBZ?

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:28 pm

perucho1990 wrote:
Kamiccolo9 wrote:He's in "mentally bad shape" because you don't like how his story is going?

What the fuck is wrong with you people?
That Toriyama is the main reason why the ToP couldve been a better arc? Even Toyotaro had to fix some of Toris mistakes, for a good reason some people believe that Z was good because the editors were keeping him in check.

Toriyama is a legend yes, but so was Vince McMahon in the wrestling world...
Does that justify calling Toriyama Insane? What? What? WHAT?
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Re: What is the lamest thing to come out of modern DBZ?

Post by Helios518 » Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:48 pm

Cure Dragon 255 wrote:
perucho1990 wrote:
Kamiccolo9 wrote:He's in "mentally bad shape" because you don't like how his story is going?

What the fuck is wrong with you people?
That Toriyama is the main reason why the ToP couldve been a better arc? Even Toyotaro had to fix some of Toris mistakes, for a good reason some people believe that Z was good because the editors were keeping him in check.

Toriyama is a legend yes, but so was Vince McMahon in the wrestling world...
Does that justify calling Toriyama Insane? What? What? WHAT?
He didn't say insane but I agree saying he's "mentally bad shape" just because the story isn't up to par is too much.
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Re: What is the lamest thing to come out of modern DBZ?

Post by Basaku » Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:08 pm

Noah wrote: You can say that to yourself, but not to facts. No entity owner of Dragon Ball rights has ever stated the official continuity of the franchise, probably because that could affect the merchadising in some way. GT was also meant to be official sequel of Dragon Ball Z but anime only just like Super is. There's also no statement that the latter existence denies that GT happened anyway, either if some could assume it was a alternate reality or something else.

The only difference between GT and Super is Toriyama involvement, that's all. We can't even measure how much is due differences between anime and manga, we know that he writes vague outlines that could be interpreted in anyway from both Toyotaro and Toei.

Z movies and GT are also official licensed products based on a weekly manga that ended 22 years ago that had no continuation, what came next were animated sequels, movies, specials and a promotional monthly manga.
The fact is Toriyama consider all core events from neo content as official continuation of his manga which was NEVER the case with GT. And what may potentially happen in future is irrelevant. Like I said, one day Toriyama & Toei may decide to reboot everything and wipe out even 42 volumes from 'canon' or whatever.

The point stands, it's simply delusional to say the current treatement of Super is on part with GT.

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Re: What is the lamest thing to come out of modern DBZ?

Post by Noah » Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:07 pm

Basaku wrote:The fact is Toriyama consider all core events from neo content as official continuation of his manga which was NEVER the case with GT. And what may potentially happen in future is irrelevant. Like I said, one day Toriyama & Toei may decide to reboot everything and wipe out even 42 volumes from 'canon' or whatever.

The point stands, it's simply delusional to say the current treatement of Super is on part with GT.
Toriyama is not the only entity that owns Dragon Ball and not fully in charge of the franchise, he would never say that Super, the new anime series after 18 years is a 'parallel story' or something, since their intention was to promote the maximum of it.

Himself acknowledging these stories may happened don't change the fact the original manga remains untouchable. No matter if Super last episode/chapter show us a completely retold EoZ e.g

Frankly, I think it's impossible to any entity to make changes in the original work, Toei wanted Toriyama to continue the manga, he didn't, but GT came out and now Super, but as another animated sequel, there's no DB Vol. 43 to call it continuation of the series.
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Re: What is the lamest thing to come out of modern DBZ?

Post by Basaku » Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:12 pm

Noah wrote:
Toriyama is not the only entity that owns Dragon Ball and not fully in charge of the franchise, he would never say that Super, the new anime series after 18 years is a 'parallel story' or something, since their intention was to promote the maximum of it.
And the intention of GT was what, not to promote it? Not like Toei didn't have a spare truck of money back then to dump on him and get him to say "GT is super canon guys I love it!". And legally-wise, Toriyama may not even own any part of DB at all, depending on fine details of Sheisha's ownership of creations that come from Bird Studio. But it's besides the point. In 2010s, Sheisha, Toei and Toriyama all came together on board for new story era and ALL support it and treat its core aspects as the full-blown continuation, not "what if" or anything. That's what Toriyama called GT back in the 90s basically and distanced himself.
Noah wrote:Himself acknowledging these stories may happened don't change the fact the original manga remains untouchable. No matter if Super last episode/chapter show us a completely retold EoZ e.g
Well Toriyama himself already retconned parts of EOZ so there's that too lol.
Noah wrote:Toei wanted Toriyama to continue the manga, he didn't, but GT came out
And Toriyama distanced himself from it. It doesn't even matter if he owns any part of DB legally or not, as the original author his name carries weight among the fanbase and media and Toei clearly got that memo since the 90s seeing how they courted and baited him until they got him on board for the new story era. And now he's deeply involved, planning all major events, arcs and characters himself and calling it a continuation. And Toei takes advantage to advertize it as that.

You don't like it, but that's the reality. It may change in future, again, one day Sheuisha/Toei/Toriyama may decide to create a complete reboot for example. But for the moment, this IS the official continuation in a way GT never was and only became less so through the years and through the developement of current story arcs.

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Re: What is the lamest thing to come out of modern DBZ?

Post by sintzu » Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:31 am

Basaku wrote:Toriyama himself already retconned parts of EOZ so there's that too lol.

This IS the official continuation in a way GT never was and only became less so through the years and through the developement of current story arcs.
He just added to it, nothing was taken out.

An official was asked about Ssj4 a year or so ago and he said that it comes after the events of Super so they clearly haven't thrown it out like you make it seem. For the time being it doesn't fit but that doesn't mean it won't later.
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Re: What is the lamest thing to come out of modern DBZ?

Post by Noah » Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:48 am

Basaku wrote:And the intention of GT was what, not to promote it? Not like Toei didn't have a spare truck of money back then to dump on him and get him to say "GT is super canon guys I love it!". And legally-wise, Toriyama may not even own any part of DB at all, depending on fine details of Sheisha's ownership of creations that come from Bird Studio. But it's besides the point. In 2010s, Sheisha, Toei and Toriyama all came together on board for new story era and ALL support it and treat its core aspects as the full-blown continuation, not "what if" or anything. That's what Toriyama called GT back in the 90s basically and distanced himself.

Well Toriyama himself already retconned parts of EOZ so there's that too lol.

And Toriyama distanced himself from it. It doesn't even matter if he owns any part of DB legally or not, as the original author his name carries weight among the fanbase and media and Toei clearly got that memo since the 90s seeing how they courted and baited him until they got him on board for the new story era. And now he's deeply involved, planning all major events, arcs and characters himself and calling it a continuation. And Toei takes advantage to advertize it as that.

You don't like it, but that's the reality. It may change in future, again, one day Sheuisha/Toei/Toriyama may decide to create a complete reboot for example. But for the moment, this IS the official continuation in a way GT never was and only became less so through the years and through the developement of current story arcs.
Did I implied GT should be canon? Pardon, but putting words in my mouth will not make your point better. Toriyama didn't called GT a "what-if story" but a "side-story" that's different also that statement was years after the anime ended. Even if he said GT is a continuation of the manga, it would not change the fact that the latter is just an animated sequel just like Super and people can stick with the original work and ignore the rest.

The small changes in the Kanzenban don't affect the overall ending.

Is not a matter of personal taste as I do enjoy Super, some of GT, the movies and anime fillers, but I know they all are absent of the original work and in a franchise that there's no estabilished canon what should be considered as part of the main continuity is the manga and nothing else.
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Re: What is the lamest thing to come out of modern DBZ?

Post by Super_Divine_Genki » Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:18 am

I wonder if those *Limited Edition Vegeta-with-pacifier* figurines were hot sellers anywhere...
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Re: What is the lamest thing to come out of modern DBZ?

Post by Kataphrut » Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:46 am

Bardock coming back with a load of pomp and circumstance annoys me.

Thankfully it hasn't happened in the mainline stuff, but the Super Saiyan time travel shenanigans in 'Episode of Bardock' and the Masked Saiyan business in Heroes and Xenoverse reek of bad fan fiction. I'll tolerate Minus overwriting the TV special, but I think Bardock works best as the somewhat tragic figure who tried and failed to stop Freeza, not the secret Legendary Super Saiayan/Time Travelling Boss.

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Re: What is the lamest thing to come out of modern DBZ?

Post by Ringworm128 » Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:00 am

Puaru wrote:The lamest thing to come out of modern Dragon Ball is definitely Gohan. I feel like I wanna go inside the Dragon Ball universe and kick his weak ass and yell at him for being so goddamn lame.
*Inhales* Gohan right from the get go was set up to be a more scholarly type who hates fighting and only resorts to it when needed. Him settling down is perfectly in character, the cast isn't just a bunch of violence obsessed freaks who sit around waiting for the next bad guy to show up.

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Re: What is the lamest thing to come out of modern DBZ?

Post by MR.Mark » Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:56 am

Power scaling is one of the lamest things for what it's done to determine which character should still be relevant going forward.
It's like my opinion of Pan, Goku was born with a nothing battle power and look where he is now. why can't someone born from Ultimate Gohan play catch up?
Story wise she could be the strongest female character in the series, power levels are bullshit.

Another thing that while not lame about modern DB, I miss it all the same at times. Is characters having more blood on there faces/bodies to add a visceral level of battle damage.

Head cannon: The characters are so strong at this point it's much harder to make there bodies bleed from damage. :lol:

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Re: What is the lamest thing to come out of modern DBZ?

Post by Nandogip » Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:09 am

Is this a general vent thread?

One thing I hate is on other forums, anytime DB/Super/etc gets brought up, it takes less than 5 posts before a Faulconer OST vs OG OST debate starts....... Zzzzzzz

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