What is the lamest thing to come out of modern DBZ?

[Son Vegito]

-Potara retcon
-Transformations being hair color changes
-Back tingling
-Unexplained power-ups(Z had those too but this is next level)
-Inconsistent power level scaling
-The demographic target
-Plot being leaded by fan wishes

There are many more but those don't bother me. These are the ones I hope that wouldn't have happened.

[sintzu]

To stay on topic, one of the lamest things to me is how Japanese-y everything is now. I kind of puts me off how everyone's wearing slippers inside and eating cup ramen and other Japanese foods all the time, it kind of takes the timeless kind of charm away from the stories

It seems like it does that to follow in the footsteps of other anime which they shouldn't because DB is one of the biggest names in entertainment so they don't need to.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

-Potara retcon
-Transformations being hair color changes
-Back tingling
-Unexplained power-ups(Z had those too but this is next level)
-Inconsistent power level scaling
-The demographic target
-Plot being leaded by fan wishes

There are many more but those don't bother me. These are the ones I hope that wouldn't have happened.

Potara was retconned in Z as soon as it was introduced, "once fused you'll stay like that forever" and a couple chapters later Vegetto defuses for no reason.

What's wrong with the demographic target? DB has always been aimed at kids, a majority of people watched the show as kids. Very rarely do reboots ever change demographic, that's why The Force Awakens was a retelling of A New Hope. If DB did change demographic there is no way it would be able to sustain itself TV ratings and home video sales would matter more than they do.

[Colonel Silver]

Most of the issues that I and others have with "modern DBZ" would be happily overlooked were I a kid and not an overly analytical adult.

I know what you mean. I wish I could just switch my brain off and enjoy cool flashy dudes fighting each other again.

I can't shut off my brain and enjoy the cool fights because in reality most of the fights aren't all that cool. They're boring safe ATATATATA slug fests. My brain is off like, 80% of the time, it's on auto pilot right now. My favorite fucking character is Super 17, the KING of all flash no substance. Just a cool character design with a cool arsenal of moves. (And no, just because I like that 1 character doesn't mean I like GT as a whole.)

There's too great a drop in quality in terms of fighting choreography, there's a huge lack of interesting shit happening in a lot of fights in modern Dragon Ball. The fights never push the envelope in terms of character ability and knowledge because Toei is fucking cheap, they don't wanna animate that shit. They only care about their boss fights and transformations for merch, everything else in between suffers. People will bring up the sporadic bursts in quality, I was fooled by it too. I don't want to hear about it. I'm suppose to just forget about the hours of uninteresting stilted fighting? Nah, it's a me problem, it's fucking nostalgia clouding my judgement. I can't dumb my dumbass self down enough to enjoy this shit.

Y'know since this is a topic about lame shit in modern dragon ball, I'd like to bring up the recent push or sell of DEEP fighting by the observers in ToP. whis for example. rambles about how sexy Goku's martial tech is, just really trying to sell that what's being seen is martial arts gold. When in reality, all that's going on on-screen is a soulless ADADADA Toei brawl, A good example of this is episode 113. Spare me and just splay my fucking brains please.

C'mon, Whis, Goku isn't using his damn head, don't try to sell me on this lame ass fight. Who would have thought Angels were on Toei's payroll? But w/e I'm gonna make good on my word now. Super doesn't exist.

[GodKaio-Ken]

-Potara retcon
-Transformations being hair color changes
-Back tingling
-Unexplained power-ups(Z had those too but this is next level)
-Inconsistent power level scaling
-The demographic target
-Plot being leaded by fan wishes

There are many more but those don't bother me. These are the ones I hope that wouldn't have happened.

Potara was retconned in Z as soon as it was introduced, "once fused you'll stay like that forever" and a couple chapters later Vegetto defuses for no reason.

What's wrong with the demographic target? DB has always been aimed at kids, a majority of people watched the show as kids. Very rarely do reboots ever change demographic, that's why The Force Awakens was a retelling of A New Hope. If DB did change demographic there is no way it would be able to sustain itself TV ratings and home video sales would matter more than they do.

Except we know it defused for a different reason. They hadn't exerted much energy and barely any time had passed. So this is an entirely different animal.

[fadeddreams5]

-Potara retcon
-Transformations being hair color changes
-Back tingling
-Unexplained power-ups(Z had those too but this is next level)
-Inconsistent power level scaling
-The demographic target
-Plot being leaded by fan wishes

There are many more but those don't bother me. These are the ones I hope that wouldn't have happened.

Potara was retconned in Z as soon as it was introduced, "once fused you'll stay like that forever" and a couple chapters later Vegetto defuses for no reason.

What's wrong with the demographic target? DB has always been aimed at kids, a majority of people watched the show as kids. Very rarely do reboots ever change demographic, that's why The Force Awakens was a retelling of A New Hope. If DB did change demographic there is no way it would be able to sustain itself TV ratings and home video sales would matter more than they do.

Except we know it defused for a different reason. They hadn't exerted much energy and barely any time had passed. So this is an entirely different animal.

To be fair, the reason we got was unbelievably stupid in DBZ, if you can even count it as any form of explanation. I prefer the explanation in Super. My main gripe is that the entire scenario played too similarly to the SSJ4 Gogeta one in GT. Also, it makes potara fusion too similar to regular fusion. Why was the latter ever even introduced? Gotenks is hardly ever used, and accomplished nothing in his arc...

[sintzu]

It makes potara fusion too similar to regular fusion. Why was the latter ever even introduced? Gotenks is hardly ever used, and accomplished nothing in his arc...

Normal fusion was supposed to be the only fusion but Toei having Goku and Vegeta use it in Fusion reborn resulted in Toriyama introducing Potara fusion to be a bit different from the movie.

Although Buu's "air" being the reaosn they defused wasn't the best way of separating them, it's still better to have it be permanent on normal conditions to avoid it being overused or making them look stupid for not using it. All this could've been avoided if Super just went with Gogeta, they have one that has a time limit so why bother undoing the other one to fit that ?

[Ripper 30]

The fact that people still refer to the franchise in general as DBZ and not Dragon Ball. That's the same as if people referred to the entire Naruto franchise as Naruto Shippuden.

They also skip Dragon Ball and judge the whole franchise by DBZ.

Yamamuro's modern character designs. Because of Super episode 114, we got a glimpse of what Super would look like if it had older character designs, and it was glorious. Not that it would look as good every episode, but it would certainly be a step up from what it is now.

Imagine how Super would have looked like if Uchiyama was the Supervisor

[GodKaio-Ken]

Potara was retconned in Z as soon as it was introduced, "once fused you'll stay like that forever" and a couple chapters later Vegetto defuses for no reason.

What's wrong with the demographic target? DB has always been aimed at kids, a majority of people watched the show as kids. Very rarely do reboots ever change demographic, that's why The Force Awakens was a retelling of A New Hope. If DB did change demographic there is no way it would be able to sustain itself TV ratings and home video sales would matter more than they do.

Except we know it defused for a different reason. They hadn't exerted much energy and barely any time had passed. So this is an entirely different animal.

To be fair, the reason we got was unbelievably stupid in DBZ, if you can even count it as any form of explanation. I prefer the explanation in Super. My main gripe is that the entire scenario played too similarly to the SSJ4 Gogeta one in GT. Also, it makes potara fusion too similar to regular fusion. Why was the latter ever even introduced? Gotenks is hardly ever used, and accomplished nothing in his arc...

I'm not trying to compare it so much as say it wasn't even for the same reason...seems like they should have tied both in.

To be fair we don't really get an explanation in Z beyond Goku guessing if I remember right.

[Neo-Makaiōshin]

To stay on topic, one of the lamest things to me is how Japanese-y everything is now. I kind of puts me off how everyone's wearing slippers inside and eating cup ramen and other Japanese foods all the time, it kind of takes the timeless kind of charm away from the stories

This doesn't make sense, somehow that is a deal breaker despite having characters using japanese terminolgies like technqiue names (Kamehameha, Genki Dama, Makkankosappo, etc) or characters names (Goku, Gohan, Goten) asian mythlogy, cultural allutions, general aesthetics (Journey to the West, mechaniques behind Ki, Tenkaichi Budokai, Asian martial arts phylosophies, Wuxia elements, the combat attires that most of our heroes wear are gis). I don't get how what's currently coming from DB is less timeless than what came before.

[MajinMan]

Yamamuro's modern character designs. Because of Super episode 114, we got a glimpse of what Super would look like if it had older character designs, and it was glorious. Not that it would look as good every episode, but it would certainly be a step up from what it is now.

Imagine how Super would have looked like if Uchiyama was the Supervisor

I would cry. If someone like Uchiyama or Ebisawa were the character designers for modern Dragon Ball, literally everyone would laugh at us for even liking this series. At least modern Yamamuro isn't great, but he isn't some abomination either.

[Ripper 30]

Yamamuro's modern character designs. Because of Super episode 114, we got a glimpse of what Super would look like if it had older character designs, and it was glorious. Not that it would look as good every episode, but it would certainly be a step up from what it is now.

Imagine how Super would have looked like if Uchiyama was the Supervisor

I would cry. If someone like Uchiyama or Ebisawa were the character designers for modern Dragon Ball, literally everyone would laugh at us for even liking this series. At least modern Yamamuro isn't great, but he isn't some abomination either.

Agreed, Atleast Yamamuro was great in his Prime unlike Uchiyama.

[Ringworm128]

Wrong topic please erase post.

[Ringworm128]

Sorry that was for the "how did you get your avatar thread. Please delete.

[Noah]

=Inconsistent power level scalilng.

If Super at least tried to make be more consistent regarding its previous statements, I would be more pleased, but I guess this will never happen.

[SingleFringe&Sparks]

Super doesn't even feel like a real anime to me, let alone a sequel. First, what "real anime" is in the first place?

Maybe I meant to say that its production process does not feel up to par or consistent with the standards and quality of other anime in its genre. "real anime'' is an arbitrary label, but my viewership of it has been compromised to tolerate it. Super doesn't feel like its really going anywhere substantial for the series let alone consistently. Its written as if its just a spit-ball of whiteboard ideas thrown into an episode list and stuff they pull from marketing demand or easy to sell tropes. Not an actual story like early Z had.

Super is not sequel, because so far everything has happened during the big time gap between the resolution of the Bu arc and the last Budokai Tenkaichi, not after that.

No Super isn't a "sequel' to Z but its a lose category for this franchise. Its a continuation in a convenient era for the characters to fit or at least imply canon. Its supposed to be a continuation of Z, yet feels nothing like it nor is anything from Z really referenced. Everything is overlapped with a complete shift in tone and how events are organized in-universe.

To stay on topic, one of the lamest things to me is how Japanese-y everything is now. I kind of puts me off how everyone's wearing slippers inside and eating cup ramen and other Japanese foods all the time, it kind of takes the timeless kind of charm away from the stories

This doesn't make sense, somehow that is a deal breaker despite having characters using japanese terminolgies like technqiue names (Kamehameha, Genki Dama, Makkankosappo, etc) or characters names (Goku, Gohan, Goten) asian mythlogy, cultural allutions, general aesthetics (Journey to the West, mechaniques behind Ki, Tenkaichi Budokai, Asian martial arts phylosophies, Wuxia elements, the combat attires that most of our heroes wear are gis). I don't get how what's currently coming from DB is less timeless than what came before.

Hes probably talking about how its not as subtle an abstract as it used to me, where as it looks more like what you see in slice-of-life anime directly making it clear they are in modern Japan. DB was never set to reflect modern Japanese culture (which should be more Chinese imo) nor did it reference real-world things as much as Super does. The same off-putting said, is what I have seeing Goku using a touch-screen phone we can identify. Thats whats jarring.

[SingleFringe&Sparks]

-Potara retcon
-Transformations being hair color changes
-Back tingling
-Unexplained power-ups(Z had those too but this is next level)
-Inconsistent power level scaling
-The demographic target
-Plot being leaded by fan wishes

I should have given my irks this way as well.

- Caulifla's fan-girling and instant forms.
- The Potara having a time limit
- The Final Kamehama's Design in Super.
- Merged Zamasu's asspull powers.
- The confusing Time Travel.
- Freeza image training to master his Golden form.
- God Ki not meaning anything.
- Super Saiyan "Rage"
- Off-screen training & Short-cut quick training boosts.
- Goku's thicker 1-dimensional personality.
- Most of the Destruction God designs.
- U6 Saiyans being galactic defenders.
- The lanky modern Toriyama designs (good on paper, ugly on screen)
- The glossy coloring on the character faces and hair.
- Super Saiyan Blue's stamina issues
- Characters always dropping their guard.
- Cabba's Super Saiyan Trigger & Cabba himself.
- The dead-horsing of the Super-Sentai parodies.
- The Multiple Universes of fodder.
- Plot-armor powerscaling
- Kefla.
- Most of te ToP arc overall.
- Blue Kaioken (mixed feelings)

[Basaku]

I have no hope for the future of this franchise, but I'm gonna do the right thing, I'm not gonna abandon ship. I'm going to do to Super what I did to all that other shit I just mentioned, I'm gonna pretend it doesn't exist. I'm all the way back in 2007. I'm in my Dragon Ball happy place.

You don't need to pretend it, this series actually has no connection with the original manga anyway. Couldn't you try to enjoy it knowing that anyway?

Except that core story/events/characters from Super (both anime and manga) are treated and created as fully canon by Toriyama, Toei, Bandai, Toyatoro, Shueisha and majority of the fanbase. Good luck going 'la la la' on that for many years to come. This ain't GT which you can totally act like it doesn't exist (just like Toriyama does, and even Toei/Bandai when they don't particularly need a few more video game character designs to fill in).

[sintzu]

I have no hope for the future of this franchise, but I'm gonna do the right thing, I'm not gonna abandon ship. I'm going to do to Super what I did to all that other shit I just mentioned, I'm gonna pretend it doesn't exist. I'm all the way back in 2007. I'm in my Dragon Ball happy place.

You don't need to pretend it, this series actually has no connection with the original manga anyway. Couldn't you try to enjoy it knowing that anyway?

Except that core story/events/characters from Super (both anime and manga) are treated and created as fully canon by Toriyama, Toei, Bandai, Toyatoro, Shueisha and majority of the fanbase. Good luck going 'la la la' on that for many years to come. This ain't GT which you can totally act like it doesn't exist (just like Toriyama does, and even Toei/Bandai when they don't particularly need a few more video game character designs to fill in).

It doesn't matter what the officials see it as, we can take what we like from the franchise and leave out what we don't. That's exactly what you're doing with gt.

[Basaku]

It doesn't matter what the officials see it as, we can take what we like from the franchise and leave out what we don't. That's exactly what you're doing with gt.

It's not, there's an obvious disparity between Toriyama/Toei's treatement of GT and DBZ/Super.