Positive changes/Woolseyisms

huzaifa_ahmed · Post by **huzaifa_ahmed** » Sat May 09, 2015 9:26 am

Example: The old Funimation name for the Makankosappo is not as harsh, though the meaning is very...cheesy in comparison. Sounds like censorship. But flows much better.
Funimation's openings, specifically the one on the Full season home releases. I prefer it over Head Cha-La;some of the heavier moments also had more fitting synth/rock music. Not as the whole show, but as a separate clip.

What else?

Post by **VegettoEX** » Sat May 09, 2015 9:31 am

"Woolseyisms" are generally very specific things or references sprinkled about. It comes from examples like "You spoony bard!" in Final Fantasy IV's original Super Nintendo translation. These examples tend to live beyond their expected lifetime and take on a new life and meaning of their own (generally not in a meme-type status like "Over 9000!", however).

If you go with that kind of definition, examples in FUNimation dub would be things like "Look! I can see their parachutes! They're OK!" or "Krillin's in the house!"

I would argue that none of these are "positive" changes, made no positive impact on the product at the time, and should be looked at with historical scorn and general irrelevance. The fact that they're not carried forward into modern dubs backs this up; the only example that gets carried forward (a la "spoony bard") is "Over 9000!" whose relevance didn't come from the series itself, but someone else's modification.

KameRule · Post by **KameRule** » Sat May 09, 2015 9:54 am

VegettoEX wrote:These examples tend to live beyond their expected lifetime and take on a new life and meaning of their own (generally not in a meme-type status like "Over 9000!", however).

I'm pretty sure that "You spoony bard!" is still, even now, a well recognised meme.

While I can't think of any positive "Woolseyisms" as such, I will say that, like the OP, I do prefer some dub names for attacks. While "Special Beam Cannon" is kind of lame, Tri-Beam and Wolf Fang Fist are some of my personal favourites. Not sure if they're strictly positive for the series though.

moochfloatjr · Post by **moochfloatjr** » Sat May 09, 2015 10:01 am

Funi actually patched up a hole in Cell's regeneration pretty handily. The manga implies Cell needs to have his head intact to regenerate, but he comes back from getting his upper body blown off just fine - Funi instead says he just needs a single cell from any part of his body.

Gaffer Tape · Post by **Gaffer Tape** » Sat May 09, 2015 10:08 am

Tri Beam is one of my least favorite attack name changes. Aside from the fact that it in no way even tries to be even the loosest of translations, it really doesn't make any sense. What is three-sided about it? Whenever it's used on the ground, the impact is always a four-sided shape! Yeah, the way he puts his hands together *kinda* looks triangular, but even that is actually four-sided.

KameRule · Post by **KameRule** » Sat May 09, 2015 10:12 am

Gaffer Tape wrote:Tri Beam is one of my least favorite attack name changes. Aside from the fact that it in no way even tries to be even the loosest of translations, it really doesn't make any sense. What is three-sided about it? Whenever it's used on the ground, the impact is always a four-sided shape! Yeah, the way he puts his hands together *kinda* looks triangular, but even that is actually four-sided.

I know, I just like the sound of it. Sounds cooler in English that "Kikoho" would, despite not being awfully accurate. Like I said, it's more of a personal favourite.

Adamant · Post by **Adamant** » Sat May 09, 2015 10:28 am

VegettoEX wrote: It comes from examples like "You spoony bard!" in Final Fantasy IV's original Super Nintendo translation.

Which wasn't done by Woolsey, for that matter.

"Son of a submariner" is probably the best known genuine Woolseyism.

sayian_nation_ · Post by **sayian_nation_** » Sat May 09, 2015 10:31 am

moochfloatjr wrote:Funi actually patched up a hole in Cell's regeneration pretty handily. The manga implies Cell needs to have his head intact to regenerate, but he comes back from getting his upper body blown off just fine - Funi instead says he just needs a single cell from any part of his body.

I like regeneration process from Funi better. I mean he's "Cell" after all, it's only right they make it that he can't die unless every part of his body including his cells have been completely destroyed.

The Tori-bot · Post by **The Tori-bot** » Sat May 09, 2015 11:20 am

Gaffer Tape wrote:Tri Beam is one of my least favorite attack name changes. Aside from the fact that it in no way even tries to be even the loosest of translations, it really doesn't make any sense. What is three-sided about it? Whenever it's used on the ground, the impact is always a four-sided shape! Yeah, the way he puts his hands together *kinda* looks triangular, but even that is actually four-sided.

Maybe it's 'cuz he has three eyes? I mean, the first time he uses it in Z, it's not hard to see him as some kind of three-eyed cowboy... one who is going for what is potentially one last ride...

Cure Dragon 255 · Post by **Cure Dragon 255** » Sat May 09, 2015 1:30 pm

KameRule wrote:
Gaffer Tape wrote:Tri Beam is one of my least favorite attack name changes. Aside from the fact that it in no way even tries to be even the loosest of translations, it really doesn't make any sense. What is three-sided about it? Whenever it's used on the ground, the impact is always a four-sided shape! Yeah, the way he puts his hands together *kinda* looks triangular, but even that is actually four-sided.
I know, I just like the sound of it. Sounds cooler in English that "Kikoho" would, despite not being awfully accurate. Like I said, it's more of a personal favourite.

True, Because Kikoho is not an English word and it isnt actually said in English. I would buy Makanposappo but Kikoho is simple and sounds less literally stupid. And even Chris Sabat NAILED the Makanposappo. So that doesnt really hold any water.

KameRule · Post by **KameRule** » Sat May 09, 2015 1:35 pm

Cure Dragon 255 wrote: True, Because Kikoho is not an English word and it isnt actually said in English. I would buy Makanposappo but Kikoho is simple and sounds less literally stupid. And even Chris Sabat NAILED the Makanposappo. So that doesnt really hold any water.

All I was saying is that I prefer "Tri Beam" in English over Kikoho because I like the sound of it better. Makankosappo, Kienzan and the like all sound good in English, and to some extent emulate the nature of their attack in an onomatopoeic way. I just personally don't think that Kikoho does/would.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Sat May 09, 2015 1:44 pm

The later PS2-era games used a more direct translation of "Blast Cannon".

KameRule · Post by **KameRule** » Sat May 09, 2015 1:50 pm

Rocketman wrote:The later PS2-era games used a more direct translation of "Blast Cannon".

Heh, might as well be the games' generic "Full Power Energy Wave".

Fionordequester · Post by **Fionordequester** » Sat May 09, 2015 4:22 pm

Aw man...I know it's not the popular opinion that the dub has anything positive about it...but nobody can think of anything? As someone who likes the dub better than the Original (though that may change someday), I personally know TONS of scenes I like better! Case in point? Goku's speech to Vegeta right before they fused into Vegetto...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeB7pkXitc4 (Japanese Version)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfSdF2fGcxo (English Version)

I don't really like the original version after having watched it recently, just because I really couldn't see someone like Vegeta being swayed by a message that basically came down to "all the people we've loved have died! You don't wanna die too, do you?" I mean, Vegeta's already died, so that wouldn't be as big of a deal to him. Plus, he already told Goku that he didn't mind dying as long as he could keep his pride, right before fighting Buuhan. So why did he just now change his mind?

The dub version on the other hand has Goku saying something that actually DOES seem like it might convince Vegeta. Not only does Goku appeal to Vegeta's heart by talking about their heritage and how their loved ones are living in an eternal state of agony, but he even manages to appeal to his PRIDE, by talking about the possibilities of starting a new race, one that would be just as strong as the old race. Basically, his message isn't JUST about surviving, but about THRIVING, and how much promise the future has if he would JUST fuse him him, so they could defeat Buuhan.

And this isn't the only example of this stuff either. I could point out to TONS of scenes I like better in the dub. But, since I'm lazy, here's just two speeches, both by Majin Vegeta, that I liked much better in the FUNI version than in the original...

Season 8 Episode 10: Vegeta's Pride (Japanese Version)

Supreme Kai: And just for that...just for that, you did something this stupid?! (In the Japanese version, Goku apparently figures out that Vegeta let himself fall under Babidi's control without Vegeta having to tell him. How he does that though, I don't know...)

Vegeta: Rrrrrrgggghhh!...'Stupid'?!

(Vegeta roars in anger, and his aura explodes into a frenzy, blowing waves of smoke and debris onto everyone except Goku, who deflects it with his own aura)

Supreme Kai: *gasp*

Vegeta: 'STUPID', YOU SAY?! This is everything to me! I don't care what happens with Majin Buu or anything else! He...He surpassed me! He is a Saiyan, just like I am, yet he outpaced me! Me!! The prince, at the height of his overwhelming power! H-He even saved my life! I-I can't ever forgive him for that! ABSOLUTELY NOT!!

Season 8 Episode 10: Vegeta's Pride (English Version)

Supreme Kai: Who are you people!? Don't you see the universe matters more than your meaningless squabble?

Vegeta: *Growls*...MEANINGLESS HUH?!

(Vegeta roars in anger, and his aura explodes into a frenzy, blowing waves of smoke and debris onto everyone except Goku, who deflects it with his own aura)

Supreme Kai: Uh!?

Vegeta: WHAT DO YOU KNOW OF MEANINGLESS!? Argh! Spend most of your life ruled by another, watch your race dwindle to a handful...and then, tell me what has more meaning than your own strength! I have in me the blood of a Saiyan prince. He is nothing but a joke! Yet, I've had to watch him surpass me in strength...my destiny, thrown to the wayside! He's...he's even saved my life as if I were a helpless child. He has stolen my honor. And his debts...must be paid!

Season 8 Episode 12: Magic Ball of Buu

Goku: Vegeta, with your great pride, you allowed yourself to be controlled by that guy just because you wanted to be stronger?

Vegeta: I...I...I...wanted to go back to how I was long ago!

(Vegeta's then powers up, and his aura flares wildly)

Vegeta: I wanted to go back to the brutal, cold-blooded Saiyan that I was, so I could fight all-out with you and not worry about anything! I hated it! I hated how, before I had realized it, I'd been influenced by you guys and become so gentle! I, of all people, had a family. I-It wasn't an unpleasant feeling...I came to like this comfortable Earth as well! T-That's why I had to be controlled by Babidi and return to my evil self! And thanks to that, I feel great now!

Goku: Is that really so, Vegeta?

Season 8 Episode 12: Magic Ball of Buu (English Version)

Goku: Vegeta, I don't understand. You've never allowed anyone to help you before in your life. Why start now? Why Babidi?

Vegeta: Because I wanted him to reawaken the evil in my heart. I wanted him to return me to the way I was, BEFOREEEEE!!

(Vegeta's powers up, and his aura flares wildly)

Vegeta: I WAS THE PERFECT WARRIOR!! Cold and ruthless! I lived by my strength alone, uninhibited by foolish emotion! But slowly...over the years...I became one of you, my quest for greatness gradually giving way to this life of mediocrity. I awoke one day to find that I had... settled down...formed a family...I had even grown quite fond of them. Would you believe, I almost started to think the Earth was a nice place to live...? Do you understand now, Kakarot? That's why I needed Babidi, to set me FREE. By releasing the evil in my heart, he has freed me of these petty attachments...and I'd have to say, it feels pretty good!

Goku: Do you really believe what you're saying?

Lord Beerus · Post by **Lord Beerus** » Sat May 09, 2015 6:17 pm

Saiyan_nation_ wrote:
moochfloatjr wrote:Funi actually patched up a hole in Cell's regeneration pretty handily. The manga implies Cell needs to have his head intact to regenerate, but he comes back from getting his upper body blown off just fine - Funi instead says he just needs a single cell from any part of his body.
I like regeneration process from Funi better. I mean he's "Cell" after all, it's only right they make it that he can't die unless every part of his body including his cells have been completely destroyed.

I also agree that the whole Cell regeneration plot hole was the one area where Funimation's changes to the scripts was actually done for the better.

Akumaito Beam · Post by **Akumaito Beam** » Sat May 09, 2015 7:02 pm

Nothing major but I really like these dialogue changes...

Krillin: I think someone’s been dippin’ into the eggnog, allow me to escort you off this island.

Krillin: “Oh great, what else can go wrong today!?”
Piccolo: “I suppose you could make me angry but I wouldn’t advise it.”

Freeza: “You don’t honestly believe you can succeed where both your father and Vegeta failed. Maybe you do believe it. It wouldn’t surprise me to know that the last Saiyan to perish at my hands was just as foolish as the first.”

Super Boo: "Super Vegetto so is that your official new name? We have such great titles now don’t we? Super Boo, Super Vegetto we might as well just say we’re invincible."

ABED · Post by **ABED** » Sat May 09, 2015 7:43 pm

Vegeta: WHAT DO YOU KNOW OF MEANINGLESS!? Argh! Spend most of your life ruled by another, watch your race dwindle to a handful...and then, tell me what has more meaning than your own strength! I have in me the blood of a Saiyan prince. He is nothing but a joke! Yet, I've had to watch him surpass me in strength...my destiny, thrown to the wayside! He's...he's even saved my life as if I were a helpless child. He has stolen my honor. And his debts...must be paid!

While it's certainly not a bad line, by that point, Vegeta is over his past of being ruled over by Freeza, and while he's a proud Saiyan, he's never loved the other members of his race.

And while the words are a little different, the meaning of the things you mentioned are VERY similar. It's because it was closer to the original that it was better.

Krillin: I think someone’s been dippin’ into the eggnog, allow me to escort you off this island.

I've always liked the line, especially Terry Klassen's delivery.

OmegaRockman · Post by **OmegaRockman** » Sat May 09, 2015 7:57 pm

I don't know if this would count, but changing Mr. Popo's unsophisticated, broken speaking style to something more articulate even in the Kai dub could be seen as positive. I mean, it wouldn't be so bad if he didn't have his controversial design, but because of the obvious negative racial connotations associated with his look I feel that the change in speaking style was not only understandable, but even necessary for bringing the series to an American audience. While I don't support going as far as to alter the footage a la Blue Popo, I do think that the speaking style alteration was ultimately a change for the better.

ABED · Post by **ABED** » Sat May 09, 2015 7:59 pm

OmegaRockman wrote:I don't know if this would count, but changing Mr. Popo's unsophisticated, broken speaking style to something more articulate even in the Kai dub could be seen as positive. I mean, it wouldn't be so bad if he didn't have his controversial design, but because of the obvious negative racial connotations associated with his look I feel that the change in speaking style was not only understandable, but even necessary for bringing the series to an American audience. While I don't support going as far as to alter the footage a la Blue Popo, I do think that the speaking style alteration was ultimately a change for the better.

Even though I know of the racial connotations of his look, I don't think it's nearly as obvious as people make it out to be.

Cure Dragon 255 · Post by **Cure Dragon 255** » Sat May 09, 2015 11:43 pm

You mean his way of speaking in the Japanese version or his Blackface? Its not very obvious to a modern viewer, that's a good thing. However its the reason Blackface is unnaceptable now, because its something that should be left in the past. I'm not very in favor of censoring Mr Popo, but I think the whole changing his dialect (And its extremely obvious to people to speak Japanese, even people in favor of not censoring Popo say so) is a definite improvement. The only one. In Latin America Mr Popo's has some sort of Apu esque accent, is a bit less offensive than a Coal Black deal, but its still pretty bad.

Kanzenshuu

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