Poll: What's worse, EoB or DB Minus?

[DoomieDoomie911]

Then we have the stupid SS transformation scene... I've always hated, absolutely hated the scene where Goku Jr. becomes a SS out of nowhere in the GT special.

One of the many reason I can't stand the GT special. Seriously, Pan can't do it but he grandson can?! What kind of sense does that make?!

[Avery]

It's hard to decide. DB Minus was complete BS. We didn't really need more people complaining about Goku being "a Superman rip-off".
EoB felt like it was written by a Bardock fangirl...oh wait..
In the end, hmmm...I think Minus is worse because it's potentially canon. At least I can look at EoB the same way I look at Heroes.

[funrush]

EoB, the idea of Bardock being the Super Saiyan of legend is cool but the random time travel is never explained.

[Hellspawn28]

Minus for me. I don't like the wussification of Bardock's character/The Saiyans.

How was Bardock a wuss in DB-? He was still a dark person since he love killing like any other Saiyan did.

[ParkerAL]

I find the hate directly at both of these works rather overblown. With that said, I do think Episode of Bardock is the worse work by a wide margin if you stack them side-by-side, even though I still somewhat enjoy it as a really dumb, what-if side story.

Bardock's narrative role is that of a lone Saiyan warrior who fought to save his race against impossible odds and failed. It's one of the few examples of potent drama and tragedy in a work of Dragon Ball fiction. EoB sort of tramples all over that by having him survive using time travel nonsense. I can't understand how anything in Dragon Ball Minus could be seen as worse than that. At least in Dragon Ball Minus, we're still led to believe that Bardock died against Freeza. It doesn't negate his death just to give him a lame fan-service power-up. All it does is show he liked his wife and kids and was smart enough to see Freeza's treachery coming without plot-convenient physic visions.

On second thought, maybe the hate directed at Episode of Bardock is somewhat justified, though only if you treat it as a serious Dragon Ball installment (which it isn't). The only aspect of the special I wholeheartedly love is how it gives us a lends into the past concerning the ancient predecessors of Freeza's empire. I liked Chiller's design and the archaic armor his goons wore.

[Ex-Dubbie369]

Dragon Ball Minus is far worse. It is Toriyama messing with a character he didn't create, and making a weaker story with that character. And the fact that Goku was sent to Earth intentionally for the sake of his safety ruins the dramatic that he was sent to destroy it in the first place. And worse, if one wants to always place highest authority on the manga, then they would have to give this more weight than the TV Special, since they're more or less incompatible.

Oh, and Freeza knowing about SSJ God is BS.

Episode of Bardock, while not very good by any stretch of the imagination, is at least ignorable. Outside of making Bardock the first Super Saiyan, and of course his survival and the weird time travel, it does not have any impact on other characters or stories.

[irreality]

Dragon Ball Minus is far worse. It is Toriyama messing with a character he didn't create, and making a weaker story with that character. And the fact that Goku was sent to Earth intentionally for the sake of his safety ruins the dramatic that he was sent to destroy it in the first place.

He is still expected to destroy Earth (he is being sent as an infitration baby). Gine thought being an infiltration baby was too dangerous, so they hadn't sent him until now, but it was just less dangerous that waiting around for Freeza in Vejiitasei. They choose Earth because they figure it is an easy planet to conquer with lots of resources. I feel like the only thing DBM really changed was showing Saiyans can be both evil AND care for their children. It shows them as having more depth instead of being completely heartless. People are like: this shows some Saiyans can be good! -- actually, no, it does no such thing. Bardock was still destroying a planet, and Gine isn't some sort of pacifist protester, she just happens works in food processing: someone has to do it. She doesn't think infiltration babies are wrong, she is just concerned for the safety of her own son.

[rereboy]

Dragon Ball Minus is far worse. It is Toriyama messing with a character he didn't create, and making a weaker story with that character. And the fact that Goku was sent to Earth intentionally for the sake of his safety ruins the dramatic that he was sent to destroy it in the first place.

He is still expected to destroy Earth (he is being sent as an infitration baby). Gine thought being an infiltration baby was too dangerous, so they hadn't sent him until now, but it was just less dangerous that waiting around for Freeza in Vejiitasei. They choose Earth because they figure it is an easy planet to conquer with lots of resources. I feel like the only thing DBM really changed was showing Saiyans can be both evil AND care for their children. It shows them as having more depth instead of being completely heartless. People are like: this shows some Saiyans can be good! -- actually, no, it does no such thing. Bardock was still destroying a planet, and Gine isn't some sort of pacifist protester, she just happens works in food processing: someone has to do it. She doesn't think infiltration babies are wrong, she is just concerned for the safety of her own son.

Actually, no, they didn't expect for him to actually grow up on Earth and fulfill his mission because Gine says to Goku as they are saying goodbye that if Bardock is wrong they would immediately go get Goku back.

The point of sending him away was to save him from harm. If not for that he wouldn't have been sent and since they intended to get him back right away if nothing was wrong, that means that his mission as an infiltration baby was completely irrelevant and his parents only cared for the mission as a cover for sending him away.

DB Minus strips Goku's mission of all meaning.

[irreality]

Gine is being an overprotective mama for a Saiyan -- she didn't want him sent on an infant mission in the first place, of course she wants to retrieve him if it ends up being a false alarm. She doesn't expect him to live in harmony with the humans, she just doesn't want him killed, and figures nobody like Freeza will come looking for him there because Earth is pretty uninteresting. There is no "meaning" to Goku being sent to destroy Earth, there never was -- that is just routine for Saiyans.

Again, I'm not sure what people think is being "lost" by Goku not being on a super important mission to destroy Earth -- Earth wasn't known for its strong fighters and is relatively "far" from other planets, so not of great strategic importance. I always assumed "infant missions" were a form of culling for low-powered infants, anyway -- not an essential part of how they conquered planets. It would make sense that Saiyans that cared about their kids or had social standing wouldn't go for it.

[rereboy]

Of course there's meaning in sending their offspring as infiltration babies. Saiyans do it because its a convenient way for them to conquer worthwhile planets that don't have strong inhabitants and thus don't require an adult invasion. They don't send babies for kicks to worthless planets, they have a clear goal: the conquering of worthwhile planets.

Was that in any way relevant when Goku was sent? No. In fact, they even chose a planet particularly uninteresting with apparently few things of worth, exactly the opposite of what the saiyans would want in a planet they want to conquer. Goku's send off was nowhere near routine and the meaning of the typical infiltration of an saiyan baby wasn't there at all.

And, obviously, this change in Goku's origin makes it far less interesting and far less ironic, which was a huge part of its appeal.