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Very unlikely Gohan would get allowed to do that in modern DB.supercat wrote:If you're trying to shut Gohan fanboys up, I think fight #3 would only manage to be counterproductive. The ultimate warrior's fan base would absolutely get a kick out of watching their favorite character one-shot his father with the utmost ease.
I think that fight in particular was referring to SSJ3 Goku from the original series, who we know was a complete fodder in comparison to his son.dbgtFO wrote:Very unlikely Gohan would get allowed to do that in modern DB.supercat wrote:If you're trying to shut Gohan fanboys up, I think fight #3 would only manage to be counterproductive. The ultimate warrior's fan base would absolutely get a kick out of watching their favorite character one-shot his father with the utmost ease.
As far as we can see Goku is the top dog Saiyan and Vegeta is lacking slightly behind, every other past hero are deemed totally irrelevant.
Yes, and in all probability, the powers that be wouldn't agree with that.supercat wrote:I think that fight in particular was referring to SSJ3 Goku from the original series, who we know was a complete fodder in comparison to his son.
One hopes that they won't apply this kind of logic in Super until after God forms have been divvied out and it actually makes sense.dbgtFO wrote:Yes, and in all probability, the powers that be wouldn't agree with that.supercat wrote:I think that fight in particular was referring to SSJ3 Goku from the original series, who we know was a complete fodder in comparison to his son.
They already have Vegeta stating Goku is number #1 in the universe and the strongest Saiyan, which makes sense, since it's a continuation of the anime, where Goku was top dog.Captain Space wrote:One hopes that they won't apply this kind of logic in Super until after God forms have been divvied out and it actually makes sense.
Well, I interpreted that as a combination of:dbgtFO wrote:They already have Vegeta stating Goku is number #1 in the universe and the strongest Saiyan, which makes sense, since it's a continuation of the anime, where Goku was top dog.Captain Space wrote:One hopes that they won't apply this kind of logic in Super until after God forms have been divvied out and it actually makes sense.
It works that way because the main characters get power-ups which take them past everyone else (special training, SSJ, SSJ3 before the kids got powered up). It doesn't just magically happen without any mention or implication of how or why. At least, it's never done so before, and hence if it does so now, it'll be really dumb.fadeddreams5 wrote:Only the protagonist can be the strongest character at the end of a saga. Gohan had his moment of stardom. By the Kid Buu saga, after being demoted, he'd get beaten by SSJ3 Goku. That's just how it works.
Vegeta is now the co-main, so naturally, he'd surpass Gotenks and Gohan--even BEFORE getting god powers. Didn't even need SSJ3. It comes with the position.
Vegeta was referring to the speech he made back in the Boo arc, where he also said Goku was #1, this isn't anything new, I don't know why people are making a big fuss out of it.Captain Space wrote:Well, I interpreted that as a combination of:dbgtFO wrote:They already have Vegeta stating Goku is number #1 in the universe and the strongest Saiyan, which makes sense, since it's a continuation of the anime, where Goku was top dog.Captain Space wrote:One hopes that they won't apply this kind of logic in Super until after God forms have been divvied out and it actually makes sense.
-Meaning pure saiyans.
-Discounting Gohan who hasn't trained for years--barring like, one day--and got his power through a magical ritual (and has done nothing to maintain it), and discounting Gotenks as a combination of two completely different people.
I think we're over analyzing this a bit. Barring the involvement of writers, plot, etc., Goku wouldn't stand a chance whatsoever.dbgtFO wrote:Yes, and in all probability, the powers that be wouldn't agree with that.supercat wrote:I think that fight in particular was referring to SSJ3 Goku from the original series, who we know was a complete fodder in comparison to his son.
Vegeta's magical rage boost > SSJ3 Goku, SSJ3 Gotenks, and Ultimate Gohan.It works that way because the main characters get power-ups which take them past everyone else (special training, SSJ, SSJ3 before the kids got powered up). It doesn't just magically happen without any mention or implication of how or why. At least, it's never done so before, and hence if it does so now, it'll be really dumb.
Point is with Vegeta's power-up they acknowledge that it's a power-up. That's not what's being implied here. What's being implied here (by comments like the above "Vegeta is now the co-main, so naturally, he'd surpass Gotenks and Gohan--even BEFORE getting god powers. Didn't even need SSJ3. It comes with the position.") is that for some reason Goku and Vegeta will just be presented as above Gohan and Gotenks with no explanation, no indication how or why, or even any line like "Hey, they got stronger!" Just because they're the main characters. Which I don't think should happen, and I kinda doubt that it will to be honest, given that our enemies for the next arc are all god-tier and will kick everyone's ass more or less equally (barring specifically marvelled-at new power-ups like Vegeta in the movie version), and after that Goku and Vegeta will be god-tier too so then there's no question they'll be stronger. (And in any case, if it does happen that they're just presented as stronger than Gohan and Gotenks from the get-go, I still hold that'll be dumb and, given that god forms aren't too far off, kind of unnecessary.)fadeddreams5 wrote:Vegeta's magical rage boost > SSJ3 Goku, SSJ3 Gotenks, and Ultimate Gohan.It works that way because the main characters get power-ups which take them past everyone else (special training, SSJ, SSJ3 before the kids got powered up). It doesn't just magically happen without any mention or implication of how or why. At least, it's never done so before, and hence if it does so now, it'll be really dumb.
The wondrous thing about SSJ3 Goku during the Buu saga is that we NEVER saw him at 100%. First, he held back against Fat Buu. Then, he couldn't draw up the sufficient amount of ki against Kid Buu due to not being used to his living body. Disregarding a small line Goku stated inside Buu, Toriyama could always work around that to make him comparable to Gohan if he wanted to. The movies sure don't have a problem with it.
Fair enough. To be honest I'm fine with it in anything taking place EoZ and beyond, because it's fairly obvious Goku and Vegeta have spent a decade training and Gohan has spent a decade studying (which is of course not a bad thing, just not exactly conducive to a power increase), so them overtaking him in that time is reasonable. It'd just annoy me if it happened in half a year.fadeddreams5 wrote:Hey, I don't like the idea. I'm just saying, I wouldn't be surprised, considering GT and the movies all make Goku (and in BoG's case, Vegeta) superior to Gohan with no real explanation.
I want to be proven wrong in Super. I'd love Gohan to be considered the strongest until SSJG comes into the picture. But I'm pretty sure everything will go unmentioned.
How do you know there's no room? There's a world of difference between, say, SSJ2 adult Gohan and Majin SSJ2 Vegeta; or SSJ Goku on Namek and SSJ Goku at the Cell Games. Who's to say Goku can't get much stronger in SSJ3?Rocketman wrote:Neither Goku nor Vegeta can ever catch up to Gohan by "training". The gap is too wide, and both have no room left to grow.
It's not us that say this, it's Goku himself.Captain Space wrote:How do you know there's no room? There's a world of difference between, say, SSJ2 adult Gohan and Majin SSJ2 Vegeta; or SSJ Goku on Namek and SSJ Goku at the Cell Games. Who's to say Goku can't get much stronger in SSJ3?
A main character, especially a saiyan, being flat-out unable to get stronger seems a rather odd claim to make of DBZ.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
