Ree vs. DBZ Uncensored

[Ree]

About 50% or more would be a red flag to me because its at least around half
And it depends on the content too
Filler and throwaway dialogue can be messed with and so can culture references like said before
Rewrites are not excused but i do not mind them unless it causes a plot hole within just the dub
Adding jokes to spice it up or provide humour is fine with me too

Basically dont make the lives themselves suck and do not contradict your own revisioned dub and I'm good

[Fionordequester]

Out of curiosity, what are we defining as "rewrites" when doing a dub? For example, in Final Fantasy IV, when Tellah is casting Meteor on Golbez, the original script has Tellah saying something like...

Tellah: "I’m going to convert all of my life into MP……and defeat you!!"

But in the DS localization, that line is changed to...

Tellah: "So be it! Let my life fuel the spell that ends his!

So does that count as a rewrite, even if it is an improvement? Or does that just count as a liberal translation?

[Ree]

Could be both. the basic meaning is changed to sound less game mechanic like but the general idea is still there.

[kenisu3000]

It's easy to see the point I'm trying to make when one compares certain scenes of the Japanese version with the corresponding English ones. I have found that the new music shows it's true powerlessness most evidently during scenes of great emotion, such as the death sequences. I will never forget when I finally saw Chaozu's death in the original version, because I realized at that moment what an incredible injustice it, and so many other scenes, had been done in their altering.

I agree with this example but this is cherry picking.

How can you accuse Psaros of cherry-picking immediately after doing it yourself, twice?

or the synthesized,hollow, emotionless background "music."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJeVdf9OwKM
So emotionless and hollow!

(snip)

This garbage is not even in the same league as the original BGM, and it leaves me wondering why in the world they would replace such a rich, vibrant soundtrack with THIS. It's just so static, undynamic, and plastic.

See the link I posted earlier.

While I haven't watched the Ocean dub in years, the only cue from Wasserman's score I can remember is the one that typically plays when Goku arrives on the scene. One cue. And sure enough, that's the one you linked.

One memorable cue in a score made up of possibly a hundred or more is not enough to form an argument in favor of it. And yes, it is merely my opinion that that's the only memorable cue, but it's one opinion against another.

And it never, ever, stops, either. From the moment the episode begins to the moment it ends, this dismal, uninspired crap is droning on and on endlessly in the background. They don't seem to understand the power of silence for dramatic effect, such as in those scenes where the only sound is that of the wind blowing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAdQXmwCJco

Before I even clicked, I predicted it would be that half-minute or so of silence right after the Ginyu Force did their poses for Freeza (the video only shows up to Freeza's reaction, but IIRC the silence continues on through the conversation). Again, this is one instance in the Ocean dub (and Psaros does point it out in his comparison for this episode). The reason I remembered that scene was because it was so unusual for them to go without music for that long. It's one moment in a dub where wall-to-wall music was par for the course, and that's an understatement.

It is a testament to what an extent FUNimation has willfully disgraced, and will continue to willfully disgrace, this wonderful anime, and just how much they can strip it of. It is a testament to how little they see in it, and how little they care about how much of its true intelligence is retained in the English version

Does anyone really believe they would willingly screw it over?

If they thought screwing over the original version was what it would take to make the show popular in the U.S., then yes. Yes they would.

Another tragic loss in the translation is something of whose importance to fans FUNimation probably has no idea: the special attacks (ki-ais), which have been totally mistranslated for the most part. Most of the time, in fact, they aren't even translated at all, and simply come out as "AAAAUUGGH!!"

*sigh*......

What's with the sigh? What's wrong with this?

Another problem with the dialogue is that there's just too damned much of it. There are a lot of scenes where the characters are not supposed to be saying anything, and it seems like whenever anyone's mouth is not shown, FUNimation will take that opportunity to have someone start blabbing away.

And this is a problem because?

It's a problem because it utterly destroys the atmosphere of the series. These are moments where the audience is supposed to be holding (or catching) its collective breath, or perhaps soaking in the shock of a big reveal, or perhaps being given the opportunity to work out for themselves what they're seeing. Dialogue is NOT a constant necessity. For instance, I love me some Uncle $crooge comics, but one thing that bugs me about them is that every panel has to have dialogue. Don't get me wrong, the wordplay is typically very clever, and there is something to be said about how the storytelling style lends itself to a brisk pace, but it fails to give the reader breathing room.

But the worst thing about this line is not how stupid it sounds or how ridiculously ineffective it is at doing whatever it's trying to do, it is just so incredibly dehumanizing. How are we supposed to identify with a world of characters who DON'T DIE??

Wha -....
...I'm not even going to say anything. this speaks for itself.

No, it doesn't. Explain to me why it's no problem that a series which contains character death skirts around the very concept of death, like it doesn't exist. Yes, it is true that death eventually proves cheap in DBZ, and it is true that we can identify with characters in other cartoons where death doesn't even come up. Are either of those what you're getting at here?

Nappa blows up a news helicopter, but everything's alright because Tenshinhan "can see their parachutes, they're ok!" I honestly came close to vomiting when I heard that line.

This was pretty bad but hes making a big deal.

Are you kidding me? Making a big deal over a line that insults the audience's intelligence that much? Perhaps he was exaggerating when he said he "came close to vomiting", but seriously, there's no denying the "parachutes" line is a real whopper.

Just one last nitpick...

One of the things I have always enjoyed most about the Dragon Ball series is the BGM. I don't think I have ever heard a score, television or film, that so perfectly fits.

Animaniacs
Batman TAS
Astro Boy (any)
Superman TAS

You forgot DuckTales

[Ree]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRkDi06X-Eg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8f1R6-eIAsY idk the name of the actual song....
and so much more.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAdQXmwCJco
theres also silence when Tenshinhan tells a joke, and at least 3 more. thanks to Kakacarrottop for the following!

"A scene where Bulma and Popo are in the city, a moment in HFIL, ... and a few times when the Ginyu Force arrive."

I meant willingly make it worse knowing their own version was "inferior"

i think I misplaced it but now that you mention it it feels a bit nitpicky, just a bit.

At least you pointed out why its a problem.

Those and everythign i pointed out before.

The parachute line could have been edited better but it wasnt bad in concept just in execution. plus Tien has a 3rd eye that dub only viewers didnt know much about. So its possible he saw them and no one else did.
Dont take this too to heart though

Yeah i did forget it XD

[TVfan721]

Chris Psaros was quite frankly, a fucking moron who took Dragon Ball WAY too seriously for his own well-being. The criticism he received from his readers, especially near the end which led to him leaving, was more than well deserved.

I'm not trying to kiss ass here by any means but seriously, Vegetto EX was the ONLY one back in those days that didn't make a total fool of himself. He was the only one during the whole Funimation vs Internet shitfest era that actually knew how to be critical of Funimation and their ways but still be respectful and tasteful at the same time. Probably the biggest reason why Vegetto EX and this site is the only one left.

[VegettoEX]

Chris Psaros was quite frankly, a fucking moron who took Dragon Ball WAY too seriously for his own well-being. The criticism he received from his readers, especially near the end which led to him leaving, was more than well deserved.

I'm not trying to kiss ass here by any means but seriously, Vegetto EX was the ONLY one back in those days that didn't make a total fool of himself. He was the only one during the whole Funimation vs Internet shitfest era that actually knew how to be critical of Funimation and their ways but still be respectful and tasteful at the same time. Probably the biggest reason why Vegetto EX and this site is the only one left.

You're being rudely harsh on Psaros and rose-tinted-ly kind toward me. Neither of the extremes for either of us that you're talking about are accurate in the least.

[ABED]

About 50% or more would be a red flag to me because its at least around half
And it depends on the content too
Filler and throwaway dialogue can be messed with and so can culture references like said before
Rewrites are not excused but i do not mind them unless it causes a plot hole within just the dub
Adding jokes to spice it up or provide humour is fine with me too

Basically dont make the lives themselves suck and do not contradict your own revisioned dub and I'm good

Regardless of whether you are fine, 30 percent is still a lot, and not a nitpick.

[Ree]

30% is a lot but then again some of that 30% isn't even that bad so it still comes off as nitpicking

[ABED]

30% is a lot but then again some of that 30% isn't even that bad so it still comes off as nitpicking

The cumulative effect is ultimately what makes it far from nitpicky. Here are a few examples of big changes
"You can see their parachutes"
"But he was a brilliant scientist"
"Another dimension"
"I want to caress them"
Goku's speech about showing mercy to Vegeta.

[Ree]

Parachutes/dimension: addressed already
Caress: terrible line
Scientist: unnecessary but it doesn't bite them until the Bardock special and i take that as a sort of figure of speech.
Mercy: notable change

[Kamiccolo9]

Parachutes/dimension: addressed already
Caress: terrible line
Scientist: unnecessary but it doesn't bite them until the Bardock special and i take that as a sort of figure of speech.
Mercy: notable change

You're completely missing the point. These aren't individual lines, taken in a vacuum. It's a cumulative effect. A few lines are excusable, I suppose. This dub has dozens. They are the norm. This is not acceptable.

When you have to individually explain away every single bad line, it's better to just admit that there is a problem.

[Ree]

I acknowledge there is a problem, the lines represent what was -wrong- with the dub like how the parachutes/dimension represent censoring, scientist represents lack of research or foresight, and so.

[ABED]

scientist: unnecessary but it doesn't bite them until the Bardock special and i take that as a sort of figure of speech.

It still contradicts the story even if we learn it down the line. And what figure of speech?

Caress: terrible line

Not merely a terrible line, that's not Freeza's character.

[Captain Awesome]

..You've written a rebuttal to a highly contextual piece written a decade ago. This is one of the strangest, most redundant critiques that I have ever read.

Surely your time would be better spent writing something like a long form comparative piece where you detail the improvements you believe the English adaptation made over the original?

[ABED]

..You've written a rebuttal to a highly contextual piece written a decade ago. This is one of the strangest, most redundant critiques that I have ever read.

Surely your time would be better spent writing something like a long form comparative piece where you detail the improvements you believe the English adaptation made over the original?

You should listen to Captain Awesome's awesome point because it's awesome

[Gaffer Tape]

How is saying Bardock is a "brilliant scientist" a figure of speech? Especially when taken in context of the "fact" that he created the concept of a fake moon. Are you actually insinuating that Vegeta wasn't being literal when he said that? That he was just illustrating that Bardock was a really smart guy? If so, I mean, that's really, REALLY bending over backwards to justify it.

[Ree]

Yeah that's more or less my thoughts, i always thought they were telling the audience "hey Bardock had this cool technique back then", remember he was mocking Goku because his father's technique was being used against him and would be his demise (according to the dub.

Again i admit it is a problem

[SJR]

Chris Psaros was a good guy and his site served it's purpose. You have to remember the site ran from 98-01. That's kind of a long time ago. Plus reading his episode comparisons you can tell he got incredibly bored with the whole thing towards the end, which is why he never bothered completing it. He stated repeatedly that his desire was to motivate Funimation to change the dub for the better, and when that didn't happen he hung up his hat.

Unfortunately, he made the bad decision to hand the site over to the DBZ Otaku Alliance for archival, where it was held up as proof that all dubs are evil and motivated all their pointless crusades.

[ABED]

It was a pretty naïve quest to think that one site was going to change FUNi's direction.