Cell saga, last arc where every character is well utilized?

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Re: Cell saga, last arc where every character is well utiliz

Post by precita » Mon Nov 16, 2015 2:29 am

Lord Beerus wrote: They are so many example of stupidity in the Android/Cell arc:
- The Z-Fighters refusing to take Bulma's advice and use the the Dragon Balls and wish to Dr Gero location and stop him from activating the androids
- Piccolo powering up and allowing Cell to locate #17
- #17 not running away when #16 constantly shouts at him to do say resulting in him being absorbed by Cell. Made even worse by the fact that #17 witness Cell nearly kill Piccolo, so why he thought it would be a good idea to stick around is just asinine.
- #18 not running away as far as she can after witnessing her brother being beaten half to death and absorbed by Cell and knowing she next to be absorbed by Cell because... reasons.
- Vegeta being a stupid asshole and allowing Cell to become perfect
- Krillin not shutting down #18 and preventing Cell from becoming unstoppable because he had the hots for her.
- Goku not tell Gohan about his plan for defeating Cell prior to the Cell Games, instead relying an immense amount of luck and good fortune.
- Goku giving Cell a freakin senzu bean
- Gohan not killing Cell because he was OOC.
1. Goku says he wants to fight the Androids, what were the others going to do, go against his back?

2. How was Piccolo going to fight 17 unless he powered up? They were shown to be almost equal in their battle.

3. I'll give you 18 standing around too often like a fool, but they did say Cell would spot her if she tried to fly. Still I suppose this one was nonsensical of her just standing around with a blank look on her face.

4. Vegeta allowing Cell to absorb 18 was perfectly in character. Vegeta wanted to test out his new strength, and at the time he thought Cell would be the only villain to test it against. Vegeta doesn't want an easy victory, he wanted a challenge to prove his worth.

5. Krillin not shuting down 18 made sense if you were in his shoes, even if it wasn't the best decision. He still intended to run off with her even afterward.

6. Again Goku giving Cell a senzu bean is idiotic, but its not anything Goku hasn't done many times before.


So really, aside from Android 18 standing there too long instead of running away, everything else made perfect sense.

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Re: Cell saga, last arc where every character is well utiliz

Post by Kid Buu » Mon Nov 16, 2015 4:02 am

Doctor. wrote:There is NO arc in the entire series where every character was well utilized, not even the first one. The Cell arc is a case where this especially isn't the case.
Who wasn't used well in the Pilaf arc?
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Re: Cell saga, last arc where every character is well utiliz

Post by Lord Beerus » Mon Nov 16, 2015 9:40 am

precita wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote: They are so many example of stupidity in the Android/Cell arc:
- The Z-Fighters refusing to take Bulma's advice and use the the Dragon Balls and wish to Dr Gero location and stop him from activating the androids
- Piccolo powering up and allowing Cell to locate #17
- #17 not running away when #16 constantly shouts at him to do say resulting in him being absorbed by Cell. Made even worse by the fact that #17 witness Cell nearly kill Piccolo, so why he thought it would be a good idea to stick around is just asinine.
- #18 not running away as far as she can after witnessing her brother being beaten half to death and absorbed by Cell and knowing she next to be absorbed by Cell because... reasons.
- Vegeta being a stupid asshole and allowing Cell to become perfect
- Krillin not shutting down #18 and preventing Cell from becoming unstoppable because he had the hots for her.
- Goku not tell Gohan about his plan for defeating Cell prior to the Cell Games, instead relying an immense amount of luck and good fortune.
- Goku giving Cell a freakin senzu bean
- Gohan not killing Cell because he was OOC.
1. Goku says he wants to fight the Androids, what were the others going to do, go against his back?

2. How was Piccolo going to fight 17 unless he powered up? They were shown to be almost equal in their battle.

3. I'll give you 18 standing around too often like a fool, but they did say Cell would spot her if she tried to fly. Still I suppose this one was nonsensical of her just standing around with a blank look on her face.

4. Vegeta allowing Cell to absorb 18 was perfectly in character. Vegeta wanted to test out his new strength, and at the time he thought Cell would be the only villain to test it against. Vegeta doesn't want an easy victory, he wanted a challenge to prove his worth.

5. Krillin not shuting down 18 made sense if you were in his shoes, even if it wasn't the best decision. He still intended to run off with her even afterward.

6. Again Goku giving Cell a senzu bean is idiotic, but its not anything Goku hasn't done many times before.


So really, aside from Android 18 standing there too long instead of running away, everything else made perfect sense.
Krillin not shutting down #18 and Vegeta allowing Cell to absorb #18 still make zero sense. Krillin's is especially the most jarring, because he's know to be very pragmatic and actually quite good in his decision making during critical times. Remember when he was about to kill Vegeta when he was weak and couldn't defend himself in the Saiyan arc and prevent him from coming back to harm Earth? The exact polar opposite happened in Cell arc with him not shutting down #18 when he knew very well what the stakes were and would happen if Cell absorbed #18. Quite frankly, that was an incredibly OOC moment from Krillin.

Then Vegeta... holy shit. Did the Namek and Freeza arc not happen? I mean, there is very thin line between arrogance and stupidity, and Vegeta crossed that in the Cell arc. I mean, Vegeta certainly displayed arrogance on Namek, but at least he had the somewhat better judgement of getting the job done and not fucking around too much. His experience with Freeza obviously taught him nothing about letting your enemy achieve their most powerful form. And the whole "Vegeta attained a new power so he's gonna wanna test it out" card can't be used in his scenario with Semi-Perfect Cell, because when he did attain a new form and became a Super Saiyan in the Android arc, he didn't mess around with #19, he destroyed him in a matter of minutes. Then he all of sudden decides to fuck around with Semi-Perfect Cell for almost an eternity, while his son, who knows very well the consequences of Cell becoming perfect, literally begs him to kill Cell now. And Vegeta doesn't. Why? Because he crossed the line to stupidity. He's no longer being arrogant because at least when he was arrogant he eventually knew when to get the job done.

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Re: Cell saga, last arc where every character is well utiliz

Post by Kuririn Fan » Mon Nov 16, 2015 10:35 am

Ma man Kuririn wanted that pussy. If he destroyed 18, he would die a virgin.

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Re: Cell saga, last arc where every character is well utiliz

Post by Doctor. » Mon Nov 16, 2015 10:50 am

Kid Buu wrote:
Doctor. wrote:There is NO arc in the entire series where every character was well utilized, not even the first one. The Cell arc is a case where this especially isn't the case.
Who wasn't used well in the Pilaf arc?
Puar, for obvious reasons. He was still a part of the main cast in the arc.

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Re: Cell saga, last arc where every character is well utiliz

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Mon Nov 16, 2015 11:45 am

Lord Beerus wrote:
precita wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote: They are so many example of stupidity in the Android/Cell arc:
- The Z-Fighters refusing to take Bulma's advice and use the the Dragon Balls and wish to Dr Gero location and stop him from activating the androids
- Piccolo powering up and allowing Cell to locate #17
- #17 not running away when #16 constantly shouts at him to do say resulting in him being absorbed by Cell. Made even worse by the fact that #17 witness Cell nearly kill Piccolo, so why he thought it would be a good idea to stick around is just asinine.
- #18 not running away as far as she can after witnessing her brother being beaten half to death and absorbed by Cell and knowing she next to be absorbed by Cell because... reasons.
- Vegeta being a stupid asshole and allowing Cell to become perfect
- Krillin not shutting down #18 and preventing Cell from becoming unstoppable because he had the hots for her.
- Goku not tell Gohan about his plan for defeating Cell prior to the Cell Games, instead relying an immense amount of luck and good fortune.
- Goku giving Cell a freakin senzu bean
- Gohan not killing Cell because he was OOC.
1. Goku says he wants to fight the Androids, what were the others going to do, go against his back?

2. How was Piccolo going to fight 17 unless he powered up? They were shown to be almost equal in their battle.

3. I'll give you 18 standing around too often like a fool, but they did say Cell would spot her if she tried to fly. Still I suppose this one was nonsensical of her just standing around with a blank look on her face.

4. Vegeta allowing Cell to absorb 18 was perfectly in character. Vegeta wanted to test out his new strength, and at the time he thought Cell would be the only villain to test it against. Vegeta doesn't want an easy victory, he wanted a challenge to prove his worth.

5. Krillin not shuting down 18 made sense if you were in his shoes, even if it wasn't the best decision. He still intended to run off with her even afterward.

6. Again Goku giving Cell a senzu bean is idiotic, but its not anything Goku hasn't done many times before.


So really, aside from Android 18 standing there too long instead of running away, everything else made perfect sense.
Krillin not shutting down #18 and Vegeta allowing Cell to absorb #18 still make zero sense. Krillin's is especially the most jarring, because he's know to be very pragmatic and actually quite good in his decision making during critical times. Remember when he was about to kill Vegeta when he was weak and couldn't defend himself in the Saiyan arc and prevent him from coming back to harm Earth? The exact polar opposite happened in Cell arc with him not shutting down #18 when he knew very well what the stakes were and would happen if Cell absorbed #18. Quite frankly, that was an incredibly OOC moment from Krillin.

Then Vegeta... holy shit. Did the Namek and Freeza arc not happen? I mean, there is very thin line between arrogance and stupidity, and Vegeta crossed that in the Cell arc. I mean, Vegeta certainly displayed arrogance on Namek, but at least he had the somewhat better judgement of getting the job done and not fucking around too much. His experience with Freeza obviously taught him nothing about letting your enemy achieve their most powerful form. And the whole "Vegeta attained a new power so he's gonna wanna test it out" card can't be used in his scenario with Semi-Perfect Cell, because when he did attain a new form and became a Super Saiyan in the Android arc, he didn't mess around with #19, he destroyed him in a matter of minutes. Then he all of sudden decides to fuck around with Semi-Perfect Cell for almost an eternity, while his son, who knows very well the consequences of Cell becoming perfect, literally begs him to kill Cell now. And Vegeta doesn't. Why? Because he crossed the line to stupidity. He's no longer being arrogant because at least when he was arrogant he eventually knew when to get the job done.
He already made that mistake with Zarbon beforehand (in fact, Zarbon was where he learned Freeza can transform) and nothing implies he actually learned his mistake with Freeza. Narcissists usually never learn their lesson.

Also, wasn't Vegeta fucking around with Cell mostly filler?
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DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
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Re: Cell saga, last arc where every character is well utiliz

Post by EXBadguy » Mon Nov 16, 2015 12:07 pm

Despite me liking this saga the most, I'll admit, that some of the characters in it weren't that well utilized, but it is the last saga where most characters were utilized and consistent, whether if it's good or bad(and I use the term "most" lightly and loosely). The only folks who really did dumb shit where Krillin, Vegeta, and Gohan. I'll excuse Cell, because...well...he's a villain.
Lord Beerus wrote: - The Z-Fighters refusing to take Bulma's advice and use the the Dragon Balls and wish to Dr Gero location and stop him from activating the androids
I get that it would've been a smart thing to do, but why is it a bad thing? Do people want the characters to just be reliant on the Dragon Balls and not be able to develop self-sufficiency?
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Re: Cell saga, last arc where every character is well utiliz

Post by Gaffer Tape » Mon Nov 16, 2015 12:50 pm

EXBadguy wrote:I get that it would've been a smart thing to do, but why is it a bad thing? Do people want the characters to just be reliant on the Dragon Balls and not be able to develop self-sufficiency?
When I read this, I was immediately reminded of an exchange from Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. Major Kira is on a ship commanded by Gul Dukat, the Cardassian in charge of strip mining her planet and subjugating her people for 50 years. Gul Dukat's daughter, Ziyal, is trying to convince Kira that her father's not so bad, that he now regrets the occupation, and that she thinks his regret for what he's done has made him a better person. Kira's seething response is to say, "Well, a lot of people had to die for his education."

In other words, I doubt it would be much comfort to the people who lost loved ones or lost their homes or the islands they lived on to be told, "Well, you know what? Son Gohan learned to be more self-reliant, and Vegeta learned to be a little bit less of a dick until the next time he goes on a mass-murdering rampage, so it was all worth it!" Now these guys aren't supposed to be superheroes, but it does make it hard to root for them when they're that ineffectual at saving the world. I mean, hey, in the first arc it was funny that the heroes were terrible people, and the villains had slightly nobler goals than them. But not only were the stakes lower, it was also a comedy. The Cell arc is about as far away from either of those things as possible, and we're supposed to accept this same scenario now played out completely straight and accept them as the "heroes." So they need to be somewhat heroic.

To answer your question, no, I don't think they should be too reliant on the Dragon Balls, as that would kill any sort of drama or interesting story. But Toriyama wrote himself into a corner where the only logical resolutions were to have the characters use the easy and obvious solution or to be completely stupid and/or negligent. The fate of the world is not a good time for the characters to be concerned about improving their own self-sufficiency.
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Re: Cell saga, last arc where every character is well utiliz

Post by LuckyCat » Mon Nov 16, 2015 12:58 pm

Gaffer Tape wrote:In other words, I doubt it would be much comfort to the people who lost loved ones or lost their homes or the islands they lived on to be told, "Well, you know what? Son Gohan learned to be more self-reliant, and Vegeta learned to be a little bit less of a dick until the next time he goes on a mass-murdering rampage, so it was all worth it!" Now these guys aren't supposed to be superheroes, but it does make it hard to root for them when they're that ineffectual at saving the world.
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Re: Cell saga, last arc where every character is well utiliz

Post by ABED » Mon Nov 16, 2015 1:02 pm

- The Z-Fighters refusing to take Bulma's advice and use the the Dragon Balls and wish to Dr Gero location and stop him from activating the androids
Dangerous, but not stupid. They want to fight strong opponents and took steps towards that goal. They aren't superheroes out to save the world, if that was the case, then I'd see your point.

When I read this, I was immediately reminded of an exchange from Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. Major Kira is on a ship commanded by Gul Dukat, the Cardassian in charge of strip mining her planet and subjugating her people for 50 years. Gul Dukat's daughter, Ziyal, is trying to convince Kira that her father's not so bad, that he now regrets the occupation, and that she thinks his regret for what he's done has made him a better person. Kira's seething response is to say, "Well, a lot of people had to die for his education."
But Gohan isn't subjugating people. I get your point but it does people little good if Gohan is leaning on a crutch the entire time that when another big bad comes along he falls down because was trying to lean on a crutch that was no longer there. Yeah, it's a harsh lesson with a big cost, but such is life.
in the first arc it was funny that the heroes were terrible people, and the villains had slightly nobler goals than them.
What arc was this?!

This is the problem with magic and timetravel, you inevitably run into these sorts of issues. That's one of the reasons I like the Evil Dragons arc, there was a cost to using those DBs. If that had been established WAY earlier instead of just a vague "you're messing with the natural order", then some story problems could've been avoided.
The fate of the world is not a good time for the characters to be concerned about improving their own self-sufficiency.
Yes, that wouldn't be the time, but how else would he learn?
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Re: Cell saga, last arc where every character is well utiliz

Post by Faustus » Mon Nov 16, 2015 1:35 pm

The fate of the world is not a good time for the characters to be concerned about improving their own self-sufficiency.
Right -- but this is explicitly acknowledged in-series, so I'd be a bit wary of citing this as an inadvertent storytelling blunder by Toriyama. It's a controversial characterization moment to be sure, which is why the story leaves room for readers to align themselves with Bulma.

What I think the scene does quite well, though, is highlight the dragon balls as problematic and the main enabler of the gang's growing selfishness, which elder Kaioshin's comment in the Boo arc points to as a glaring loose end of the series (which Toriyama apparently had no trouble leaving unresolved but which GT would later dutifully pick up). Having the gang grow more and more cavalier and self-assured as the series progresses due to having fix-all items around is an original and interesting enough concept for me to see unfold as to do away with any need on my part to have the heroes act heroic.

Call it "Toriyama writing himself into a corner" if you want, but it's nothing if not an organic development from what has come before (I might go so far as to say it's a necessary development; the dragon balls have been problematic on a storytelling level for quite a while before the Cell arc as a kind of crude fix-all; it's only the logical next step to have them acknowledged as problematic in-universe as they begin to change our cast of characters for the worse) -- and I wouldn't have it any other way.

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Re: Cell saga, last arc where every character is well utiliz

Post by IDreamtIWasABee » Mon Nov 16, 2015 9:50 pm

Faustus wrote:
The fate of the world is not a good time for the characters to be concerned about improving their own self-sufficiency.
Right -- but this is explicitly acknowledged in-series, so I'd be a bit wary of citing this as an inadvertent storytelling blunder by Toriyama. It's a controversial characterization moment to be sure, which is why the story leaves room for readers to align themselves with Bulma.
It's still dramatic death. The entire thrust of the Z era was, "survive!" The Cell saga keeps that theme and hits the same beats, but there's always the nagging feeling in the back of your head that, hey, none of this shit needed to happen, and in fact Trunks came back in time precisely to prevent the characters from making the sort of mistake they did when they let the Androids be activated. Had Toriyama shown the heroes kill Gero, only to be severely trounced by Boo because the Androids and Cell hadn't strengthened them so much, it would make sense, as would explicitly showing Goku and Vegeta to be as stupid about fighting as we are about sex, really playing up the consequences of their decision (and letting the Androids go on-line wasn't just a dumb decision analogous to riding a stranger bareback; it's the equivalent of knowing that stranger is fertile, has AIDS, and having the AIDS-riddled child of your union coming back in time to warn you about this but then riding bareback anyway). Instead the dragon balls are just kinda swept under the rug (a fact reinforced by the other, even lamer reasons given for not using them, like Krillin's "these guys live best when they're fighting together as in war" rationale. So...perpetual war for perpetual peace?).
What I think the scene does quite well, though, is highlight the dragon balls as problematic and the main enabler of the gang's growing selfishness, which elder Kaioshin's comment in the Boo arc points to as a glaring loose end of the series (which Toriyama apparently had no trouble leaving unresolved but which GT would later dutifully pick up). Having the gang grow more and more cavalier and self-assured as the series progresses due to having fix-all items around is an original and interesting enough concept for me to see unfold as to do away with any need on my part to have the heroes act heroic.
This works well with the Boo saga, which is dark comedy, but the Cell arc's still going for straight-up drama.

Incidentally, I've never blamed Krillin for smashing that remote control. Stupid, sure, but ethical, and it's annoying to see his infatuation for 18 vulgarized into "thinking with his dick" when Goku and Vegeta are held up as misunderstood anti-superheroes.

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Re: Cell saga, last arc where every character is well utiliz

Post by Faustus » Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:21 am

I see where you’re coming from; I do; rooting for heroes who "got themselves into this mess in the first place" ain't easy.

Which is why I think it’s such an ingenious move, dramatically, to have the hero of the arc turn out to be Gohan of all people -- a little boy thrust into the midst of things half against his will by his battle-addled fighting junkie of a father and made to face off against a sentient bioweapon that's every bit as battle-crazed (dramatic tensions which are explicitly brought out in the notorious senzu-tossing, Gohan-the-pacifist and Piccolo-chastising scenes). A little boy who's at the mercy of the elements, in a sense. A little boy who, more to the point, played no real material role in the decision to let Gero carry through with his plans and whom we can therefore root for without too many reservations.

Also, “dramatic death” is a little… dramatic a way of putting it, maybe? The arc's drama survives precisely in seeing a fallible cast cope with the collateral of their (self-acknowledgedly) disastrous choices, with Goku having to lay down his life as a final cost.

I make it sound as though I love the Cell arc; I don't; I only kind-of-sort-of like it, and I'd probably count it among my least favorite in the series. But the decision not to preempt Gero is one of my all-time favorite series moments, no question, and outright emblematic of what I think Dragon Ball is or should be like at its core.

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Re: Cell saga, last arc where every character is well utiliz

Post by precita » Wed Nov 18, 2015 3:47 am

I also have to say I really like how they utilized 16. He could have just been a throwaway character since he was an "extra android" but they put him to good use. I love the fact that he tried to protect 18 from Cell and wanted to join the fight in the Cell games.

Also anyone else really like the scene where after Goku exits the time chamber with Gohan for the first time, he immediately goes to see Korin and powers up for him, asking if he's strong enough to beat Cell? For some reason I really liked that because it shows Goku still views Korin as his teacher and asks for his advice, its something we don't really see at any other point in the series.

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Re: Cell saga, last arc where every character is well utiliz

Post by caejones » Wed Nov 18, 2015 5:21 pm

Re: Chaozu. I don't think he was poorly utilized, so much as kicked out of the main cast between arcs, exactly like Oolong and Puar. The three of them should go do some kinda street performances in a city for cash. Shapeshifting plus telekinesis are apparently useless in combat (somehow), but as special effects...

As for the whole "don't actually stop Gero before he can activate the androids" issue... it would have been neat if we had seen at least one character try to go behind Goku and Vegeta's backs to try it anyway, and fail, possibly because Vegeta found out. (Maybe a filler episode where Yamcha tries it just to spite Vegeta? Have him get help from Lunch or Marron, even, so when Bulma drops in to warn him...).

But, also, while the interpretation of negative character development and how Gohan became the hero sounds pretty interesting, the arc spent too much time focusing on who could pull out the most last minute power-ups* to really explore that. Sure, Goku dying is a consequence, but the narrative managed to blame that on Gohan's SSJ2 Sadism moment!
Again, I really like the interpretation that battle-hungry characters thinking of the dragonballs as an easy reset button was a theme that needed exploring, but I think that, if Toriyama wanted to take it that direction, he didn't do it especially well. Even when it finally blows up in their faces--and by it I mean the Earth--the Namekian balls suddenly get to resurrect multiple people and still use 3 wishes. Could they just have wished back Shenron and used him? Sure, there was still a six month wait period on the last wish, but Porunga resetting that like Kami did is more believable (and has a precedent) than Porunga getting an upgrade that it was explicitly said Shenron couldn't support.
But, really, I would have been satisfied with one or two angst lines when Piccolo merged with Kami, pointing out how having the dragonballs around encouraged the cast to take the more face-punchy solution, but they ultimately sacrificed the dragonballs because they couldn't punch hard enough, and oh nos, no more reset button! As it was, I didn't really feel the "we sacrificed the dragonballs" tension at the time, possibly because I already knew Dende would become the next Kami, but also because Dragonball has this tendency to be really obvious with its tension, and in this case, it just kinda shrugged and went on its way.


* OK, so every arc has a lot of "who can pull another power-up out of their rectum" focus. It's just that the others seemed to have more tension while we waited on the power-ups. But maybe it's just me. And, to be fair, there was a lot of work and character development in this arc's power-ups.
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Re: Cell saga, last arc where every character is well utiliz

Post by TheUltimateVegito » Thu Nov 19, 2015 7:11 pm

precita wrote:Anyone else think the reason the Cell saga is strong is because almost the entire main cast was well utilized? Think about it, almost every main character got a chance to shine at some point in the Cell saga:

- Future Trunks: Defeats Freeza and King Cold, the main villain of the previous arc. The whole story of the Androids and the future is explained by him, first Super Saiyan other than Goku, saves Goku's life with the medicine, fights Cell's second form, is the character who triggers the entire arc.

- Goku: Fights Android 19, trains with Gohan to become Super Saiyan, saves Piccolo and Tenshinhan's life from Cell when he was about to kill both of them in his second form, fights Pefect Cell to test his strength, tries to save the Earth by transporting Cell to King Kai's planet before he blows up.

- Vegeta: Kills Android 19, fights Android 18, becomes the first ascended Saiyan, fights Cell's second form, then puts up his strength against Perfect Cell and the Cell Jr's. Shows concern when Trunks is killed and first signs of him showing affection for someone other than himself.

- Gohan: The savior of the entire saga, the one who kills Cell, saves the planet, first Super Saiyan 2. Gohan's potential is finally realized to its fullest.

- Piccolo: Pretty much defeats Dr. Gero forcing his retreat to his lab. Fights Cell's first form and outsmarts him to regrow his arm. Merges back with Kami and becomes the strongest fighter. Fights Android 17 to the point where they're pretty much even. Fights Cell again until he's blown to the water, fights in the Cell games.

- Tenshinhan: His attack is able to hold down Cell's second form just enough for Android 18 to escape. Considering Cell's second form is stronger than Super Saiyans, Androids, etc...the fact that Tenshinhan got this moment of glory is great. Also fights Cell Jr's later on and helps attack Perfect Cell in the end.

- Krillin: Goes with Trunks to destroy Dr. Gero's lab as well as the present day Cell. Although this is filler, fights Cell's first form at the airport. Contemplates using the device to shut down 18 since he falls for her, fights the Cell Jr's and contributes to the finale.

- Android 18: Fights Vegeta and wins. The fact that she is the first character shown to be stronger than a Super Saiyan says a lot. Vegeta humbled by a teenage girl is fantastic.

- Android 16: Puts up fight against Cell's first form to try and save 17. Fights long enough to stay alive so he can escape with 18. Him being destroyed is the catalyst for Gohan's SSJ2 transformation.

- Android 17: Takes out all the other fighters after 18 takes out Vegeta. He is shown to be even with Piccolo, puts up fight against Cell before absorbed.

- Bulma: Shows up when Freeza comes to Earth, shows up again when the Androids first appear, makes the device to shut down the Androids, helps rebuild 16. Stays with the cast at Kami's and when the villains appear most of the time.

- Yamcha: Dr. Gero nearly kills him, but after that he's the one who takes Goku back to Roshi's Island after he is affected by the heart virus. He then fights against the Cell Jr's and at least shows up at the Cell games to do what he can. The fact that Yamcha even showed up at the Cell Games when he could have stayed behind always said a lot.

- Yajirobe: Arrives with senzu beans when the Androids first appear. Used for comedy as usual.


This is literally the last (and first?) saga where almost the entire main cast is well utilized. Sure Chiaotzu does absolutely nothing as usual, but that's besides the point. :lol:

If you think about it the entire main cast got to contribute something at some point of the saga, this is really one of those arcs where nobody felt sidelined completely.
I can't believe you didn't mention how Bulma built the TIme Machine :lol: It's literally the most important thing of the arc.
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Re: Cell saga, last arc where every character is well utiliz

Post by TheUltimateVegito » Thu Nov 19, 2015 7:29 pm

caejones wrote: But, also, while the interpretation of negative character development and how Gohan became the hero sounds pretty interesting, the arc spent too much time focusing on who could pull out the most last minute power-ups* to really explore that. Sure, Goku dying is a consequence, but the narrative managed to blame that on Gohan's SSJ2 Sadism moment!
What if I told you Goku's reasoning for staying dead reflected on said character development?
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Re: Cell saga, last arc where every character is well utiliz

Post by Kid Buu » Thu Nov 19, 2015 7:47 pm

Doctor. wrote:
Kid Buu wrote:
Doctor. wrote:There is NO arc in the entire series where every character was well utilized, not even the first one. The Cell arc is a case where this especially isn't the case.
Who wasn't used well in the Pilaf arc?
Puar, for obvious reasons. He was still a part of the main cast in the arc.
He beat Oolong, and contributed against against Boss Rabbit and Oozaru.
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Re: Cell saga, last arc where every character is well utiliz

Post by Doctor. » Thu Nov 19, 2015 7:52 pm

Kid Buu wrote:He beat Oolong, and contributed against against Boss Rabbit and Oozaru.
And besides that, he was basically an ear for the exposition that Yamcha was launching out. He almost never spoke and almost never interacted with anyone.

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Re: Cell saga, last arc where every character is well utiliz

Post by Kid Buu » Thu Nov 19, 2015 8:46 pm

"And beyond that" Aren't we just moving the goalposts now?
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